What if any changes are you going to make to you're current system with costs going out of control.

Limestone Cowboy

Must be more than me wondering what to do. I cut back my fert order from 16 ton to 6 ton. I couldn't justify buying much more. Going to cut back 10 of the worst cows along with culling the 4 or 5 that have to go every year, they probably weren't justifying their keep anyway but I'm after getting the push I need now to shift them on. I have 15 good yearling heifers kept on for replacements a mix of simx and charolais out of sim cows and 8 two year olds for the bull so will be easy enough to build them back up in a year or two if I want. Feeding a lot of meal at the moment and you'd really notice the difference in what it's costing. Don't want to be caught in the same situation again next year.

mr.stonewall

Plan is to keep finishing cattle calf and suckler to beef, with a few tweeks.

With grain situation, store cattle and weanlings are going to be in for a serious hit in price. Lads won't have the appetite or the larger operators won't have the liquidity to buy big amounts of grain. This is going to leave a serious shortage of finished cattle at this time next year. People will try to finish mad this fall to avoid the shed. I can see a lot of culls and under finished cattle this autumn and back end, this will depress price, but once these are washed thru the system, numbers will tighten very quickly

Finish Angus crosses out of the shed at this time next year. They are the stock that will be the quickest and take the least amount of meal to get there. Let the Suckler bred stock back to grass to finish.

Better quality silage to be made. Will end up with 3/4 of 2021 pit left . This tested out at 70%dmd and 13% protein. This will have serve the majority of the next winter. Pit silage crews are now going to really have to look at the pricing per hour and not per acre. This may benefit taking the early may crop.

Put in a chunk of whole crop and cover with some second cut. Any thing to reduce the cost of ration.

Finishing cattle will need energy and grass silage can't provide it.

Its all about being nimble and trying to think 5 steps ahead of everyone else

Danzy

15 cattle I was going to finish in November and December went in to January instead. Finish 65 roughly a year. Haven't bought replacements.

Most of Others were bought last December, White head heifers 350kg at 640, was lucky enough so they will go in Summer.

Continentals and Friesian till October. So I have flexibility built in this year.

Will increase ewes, buying in Lleyn and Cheviot scanned to twins where possible.

If cattle are cheaper in the summer I'll start picking up ones for well in to next year.

The Sheep are grazing half of the silage block now, slurry out next week hopefully. Have good p and k and nwill give 100 units of Urea when opportunity arises

The sheep half will try make 20th may silage on, feed first half of winter.. The other half will not be grazed, it'll be shook with a 100 of urea, big bulky crop, glad to have it job. Don't want to risk another cold April and May.

Will set an acre of sugar beet along the edge of the block the Sheep graze in winter, strip graze with grass, will lamb later in April.

Hope to pick up numbers throughout the year. Light cattle.

So basically more sheep, run small number of cattle for most of the year. Big crop of bales and pick up ones for next year as chance arises but full number's in to shed next winter. A class of skipping the year.

Next winter ration will be scarce and bought in silage will probably North of 50, plenty of it and get through the year and hope for a new balance.

Easten

• Reducing stock numbers, all Cull cows and poor performs out the gate asap.
• Fatten the replacement heifers instead of giving them the Bull, they should fatten on grass and leave good money
• Reducing the tractor hours, no more leaving the Tractor idling away in the yard it's switch off as soon as it's finished
• No more fertilizer being bought, I've only 1/3rd of my usual amount.
• No more Impulse purchasing at the mart.
• No more Impulse purchasing at the Co-op
• Drastically reduce the amount of baled silage, it's not economical. I can't afford the Contractor charges and he can't afford to subsidise me
• Purchased a new Baler (new to me) I'm going to make as much hay as possible now, should be easy to save light meadows that got very little fertilizer
• Factory the Bull and empty Cows as soon as breeding season is over, no more 2nd and third chances it just makes for late calving
• Sell Weanlings straight off the Cows, zero meal given to them.
• December 2022 I'll reassess everything and see if I am any worse off

Danzy

Lad in England, big beef Farming family, and sales rep for a ration company. He was saying he has had 5 people already this week tell him they are thinking of emptying the shed.

blue5000

I made the big change last year, this year going to grow a bit of oats. Not going to make any huge changes, just try to be more self-sufficient. The 4 cylinder tractor is going to be used a lot more than the 6 cylinder one.

Not going to panic, it could be a fantastic year for farming yet, Napoleon said an army marches on it's stomach. I don't know how many million horses were used and ate in WWII, but there ain't much atin in a tank or a truck.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-wwii-german-army-was-80-horse-drawn-business-lessons-from-history/

_Brian

with minimal tweaking seeing out a year or two of high inputs should be no trouble, but if they remain then agriculture will have to change.

we spread minimal fertiliser, only contractor work is baling silage.

Grueller

Sucklers or the vast majority getting the gate. Will graze the out farm with my own dairy cross cattle.

Have about 40-50% of next years silage requirements left over so closing less ground.

Cancelled a builder I had booked for a tank, cubicles and a shed. I need the storage and cubicle space but I'll throw a few 2nd hand cubicles in a shed I have already and tough it out for a year or 2 and re assess.

Birdnuts

Probably expand the wholecrop oat acreage and water down the slurry for a start.

JohnChadwick

Anyone else feel that contractors, agri merchants etc. are kind of over-engaging in the hyping up of costs.

It's like that they're trying to justify the massive increases that they are inevitably off-loading on to the farmer.

Don't get me wrong, the costs are rising and will seemingly continue to do so (as Russia gets cut off over the next few years). But hyping it up to a point that farmers are panicked is hardly good for the whole industry either.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755417#Comment_118755417

idk about the contractors, I'd say a good few of them are on the hook for a lot of money on all the new machinery and tractors. I already had the argument with my contractor, in fairness he was giving lads the heads up on the price increases going forward but I pointed out he didn't reduce the prices when diesel was 40c/litre. I think he will be in trouble financially but I could be wrong. Anyways I'll not be using him this year, I've already bought hay and have about 70% of my fodder for winter 2022/3 and I'll just make up a bit of hay myself for the difference.

mahoney_j

Have a decent stack of feed left over as of now …will make same ammount of first cut as last year and leave decision on second cut till it’s done

have 90% of fertiliser I used last year bought and that’s it

make more use of contractors with precision equipment like gps fertiliser spreaders and t shoe slurry

stock numbers …won’t be any drastic change as in back of my heat I’m thinking of a reference year cow numbers even allowing for selling few duds will be up 9 on last year …all fr bull calves will be sold …have Angus calves from now on …will keep them and sell in October

will keep production per cow up and try and increase it …cap feed at 1.5 t and try aim for 1.3…all weather dependant with a historic high milk price think it’s right call

cut out buying stupid shite I don’t really need

mr.stonewall

Running cost are going to eat a large chunk out of contactors margins. Secondly people will only do what they have to do this year to get by. This will reduce the amount of work they complete.

Labour is also going to pinch as workers will want a bit more due to their living costs having risen.

Reduced output is going to hit hard. Any of the pit crews are seriously going to have to look at the cost of long draws and heavy crops.

It's a double edged sword and I can see some getting into serious bother unless they are better at gathering payment for work completed. Can't see too many oil companies waiting too long for payment. The only light they have is the value of repayments have been reduced due to inflation

patsy_mccabe

Will high oil & gas prices not be a good thing for Irish farmers? Ireland having the lowest carbon footprint in Dairying in Europe, plus the 3rd lowest in Beef in Europe. Prices increases add to costs here, but across Europe, the increase will be far higher. Think of the European Dairy guys with their indoor, all year round systems. Huge diesel and fertiliser bills. Ireland dairying, on the other hand - cows lying in the rich summer grasses. No comparison in margins.

I'd be slow to cut numbers. Expect big increases in Beef and Milk prices.

For me, it's weird as I never had as much silage and I also have some fertiliser left over from last year. Usually never the case.

Danzy

We'd want to be reasonable with the contractor this year cause we'll need him next year as well.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755417#Comment_118755417

I have to smile when I read this sort of drivel. You’re probably the same type of lad that will ask the contractor why didn’t he just put in a big 100,000 gallon tank and buy the diesel when it was cheap? Or ask him why didn’t he “go up the north” and buy net/polythene where it’s cheaper.

Can I ask did you go to your contractor last October when a lot of this was predicted and forward pay him for your work for this year so he could get his diesel and all in when it was cheaper and save you money this year? I highly doubt it. But still you’ll expect him to carry all the cost and wonder why he hasn’t millions invested a year early to save you a few hundred on your few acres.

I’d be worried about any farmer that has to wait for the contractor or merchant to tell him what’s happening, surely anyone with the intelligence to be able to farm can see what’s happening for themselves without having to wait for their contractor to tell them? It’s literally all that’s being talked about for the last month all over the world.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755609#Comment_118755609

Correct on numbers. Every farm dependent on indoor feeding, is going to the be under serious pressure due to oil price of getting feed in and poo out. This has risen and eroded their tight margin.

I have a feeling we will see a huge cull and reduction of numbers in these systems later this year. This will drive up beef production and depress price a for a while until they are flushed thru the system. After that price will rise greatly and hold for longer.

I have a feeling that Larry and his friends sheds will a lot quieter this year.

Secondly are the coops going to come under pressure for gas with peak milk supply.

The rise in prices is going to focus the average consumer on fuel, food and a roof over their head. This is going to reduce the amount of discretionary spending. The quantities of mochas and avacodos consumed will really drop. The focus will be back to the basics. This is about to hearld a change in farmer fortunes

Danzy

2 cent cut in green Diesel excise.

... Cause food production is valued and important.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755846#Comment_118755846

There’ll be very little difference in the cost of white and green so at that rate.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755846#Comment_118755846

Not worth 2 shites …..some joke

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755846#Comment_118755846

2 cents off what price exactly?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756107#Comment_118756107

Off the excise duty per litre. So it's bought in, the govt add an automatic 56 cent, think it is 56 cent, and then other taxes are applied as a % of purchase price, Vat etc.

So the middle bit added on automatically will be 54.

That's the gist of it.

K.G.

No major changes just yet except we ll pull the mower out early and keep her out.move from to 2 to 3 cut and try and improve quality a good bit while lowering fert application per cut (about half) that would be 40 units +slurry per cut instead of 80 + slurry per cut currently.wouldnt rule out drying earlier rather than buying ration for milking cows in the autumn.we ll just have to see how it goes .leaning towards more cutting ration than fertilizer if possible.my biggest worry is having enough feed for next winter

James2022

I've always had the belief that farming is about saving money as much as it making money. I always found it strange people would leave tractors running ideal for hours without use. They'd be down at one end of the yard working away with the tractor running away at the other end.

I'm trying to calculate what is the best option. I've got a little under 1/2 the silage needed for next winter right now but a lot of animals still housed and not going out for 2-3 weeks.

A - Feed more meal now so there is more silage left over for next Winter. With the price of fertiliser, fuel, wrapping etc the price of silage is going to go up and yields are going to go down. I don't want to find myself short this time next Spring and it will take the pressure of pushing a higher yielding second cut.

B - Feed less meal and more silage. Gamble on reasonable first cut yields and a very good second cut. This will require more fertiliser if the slurry isn't doing a good enough job.

C - Stay the same and get animals out as soon as ground conditions and weather allow. Buy in fodder and feed more meal next Spring. This seems like the worst option.

mr.stonewall

@James2022 The plan has to be to get the cheapest feed possible into your cattle. I let out a lot of cattle on heavy ground last week and they are spread in small bunches and strip wires up. Even the dry cows went out to graze during the day. It's bloody amazing the reduction in silage being feed. The silage currently in the yard is the cheapest winter feed that I will have next year. This gives you options, either to go for a multicut or an option of bulk.

Even getting out lighter stock now will help greatly. The amount of grass that grew this winter is huge. You have to graze it to grow it. Regrowths are there you can see it over the past week. Had ground graze at the end of January with yearlings and there is a lovely cover back on it.

Haven't spread any fertiliser and only spread 5 loads of slurry so far.

Danzy

Ration is not your friend, especially this year coming.

893bet

Ration we get jumped 50 a tonne to 370 this week.

patsy_mccabe

Just heard today that a large Clare based silage contractor, will not be doing silage this year.

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755609#Comment_118755609

Not sure about that - most conventional Dairy here relies heavily on inputs like Chem Fert, sprays,Diesel etc. alot of that is shelled out on intensive PRG silage production. The price of these things are only going one way and will significantly hit bottom lines even if we get a good spring/summer for grass growth.

Reggie.

Sow a heap of clover

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760505#Comment_118760505

Just a word of caution - be careful about too much clover in the grazing pasture as it can cause severe bloat. Years ago we use to use a product called Bloatguard that we added to the drinkers.

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760505#Comment_118760505

Important to keep in mind that prices will be equally high next year, 2024 at the earliest before things might look more normal

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760505#Comment_118760505

when is the best time to sow clover? Was thinking of putting in the spreader with fertilizer

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760600#Comment_118760600

We already tried it. Sowed 19 acres last year with 5kg of clover per acre. Fed 70 heifer calves last year for 6 months on a half bag of urea and only 7 acres got approx 3000 gals of slurry. Think the whole grazing block of 60 acres is getting clover in May.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760971#Comment_118760971

Do be honest that won't work. It's a waste of clover esp with it at €10 a kg. To have a good chance of germination you need to stitch it in. Know plenty of lads who claim clover won't work but they tried to sow it with that method and sure there's no way to be accurate or get it down to soil level.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760921#Comment_118760921

Trying to reduce the fert burden

joe35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761006#Comment_118761006

If you were spreading lime could you mix clover in with the lime.

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761080#Comment_118761080

It's upto each farmer really but the most accurate way is stitching with airseeder. It's hard to be accurate with spinners or wagtails as the seed is so small the slightest amount of wind will affect it so there's no way to be accurate with it. Also unless it bulls rain there's no way it'll get to the soil even after the rain. I use a guttler here and its never failed yet

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118756127#Comment_118756127

Green diesel doesn't have 56c a litre excise. As of March 2021, it was 11.8c per litre. I don't know if it went up since. The 2c comes off that. The carbon tax remains (gotta keep the green people happy (and hungry))

kerryjack

2 farming lads on live line yesterday 1 lad blaming the large dairy lad for running farming talking over all the small family farms, mad stuff how much some lads hate the large scale dairy farms.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761396#Comment_118761396

Listened to that lad.

He was off his melt.

Though off topic, his Amish approach is very successful in Agriculture in America where they are buying land nonstop.

I agree with him in that it is skewed against the farming industry.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761093#Comment_118761093

Agree with that …guttler /stitcher is best ….I’ve got good results from putting it out with slurry too …suck in 2 kg clover when filling 2509 gallon tank and out at 1509 gallons per acre …usually start going with this from mid April on weather dependant and roll ground few days later

Packrat

2017 to 2020 I was ramping up numbers of sheep, pondering what to do with the loss making sucklers, and generally trying to get this run down place back in shape having come back into it in 2014.

Workload went mad (I have a summer occupation as well) and winters became utter misery with bad house/yard setup, poor fencing and grass management etc.

After being at home all 2020 and most of 21 due to Covid (No tourism) all I had out of it was bigger co-op bills, more work needing doing, more stock and no money with herself getting right sour over it all.

I had decided to go organic before the current sh1tshow and had changed out the Limo/Shorts for Dexters.

I culled the ewes ruthlessly last Autumn and will cull again this year.

No fertilizer going out bar dung and a bit of imported slurry this year, and I've barely any ration fed to sheep yet.

Those two alone will halve my coop bill and assuming I get in, the payment will be for jam.

I really wanted to build up the operation, but it's pis5ung against the wind with input costs, workload, and modern life.

I'm 48 and the housing/slurry management investment alone I'd need I couldn't ever pay back without breaking my hole until I'm 80.

My children are small and if they ever want to go farming, they'll know how and have the land, but not grow up resenting it because I'm never there.

I'm planting a couple of ridges of garden this year for the first time in decades because I have the few minutes to spare.

When I was doing an MBA a few years ago the first thing they taught us was "Turnover is for vanity, and profit is for sanity"

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118755664#Comment_118755664

This idea that Ireland is a low cost producer because of our grass based system is nonesense. In most european countries like France, Germany, Holland, Denmark farmers grow most of their own feed with tillage crops like wheat, maize etc, that are far more fertilizer efficient than our intensive grass that requires 8 or 9 applications of nitrogen per year. It is not the cost of fertilizer that will force reduction in milk production on the continent but environmental pressure and shortage of labour.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761787#Comment_118761787

I'm looking at it from the beef side of things. Fertiliser applications are few and low. This stands us in a better position if we can sort some self sufficiency around the grain issue. 8-9 fertiliser applications is just chronic, it's the crack cocaine of farming

The 3 F's are now the major pressures. Feeding beef cattle on grazed grass has the lowest of the requirement, when not over stocked. It's about finding that sweet spot in every farming system.

Fuel and fertiliser is going to have a big pressure on these indoor systems. Just look at the chronic situation with the pig industry across Europe. It's the price of inputs that has pinched their margin. European dairy and beef will be under pressure.

Never waste a good crisis

This time is about the change the view on food production and security in europe. Being aware of international factors and a willingness to make changes inside your own farm gate is key to riding this situation with a strong business

fastrac

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118760505#Comment_118760505

Year 3 before that will start saving you fertiliser

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761396#Comment_118761396

Heard it too - some craic Was on long work drive so it certainly passed the time. 😂😂

Box09

Cutting ewes by at least 20%, any lads in the breeding hogget game are in trouble.

Will seriously consider the use of the tractor for topping , hedgecutting etc.

A lot of dairy lads will be in big trouble when the fert dries up.

funkey_monkey

Nothing much beyond what we would have been doing anyway. 2 cows to cull that got a free pass for a few years.

Had some reseeding planned, but that is now on hold. All non-essential spend on infrastructure is on hold until prices drop.

Will try to make some better quality silage for the weanlings.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761396#Comment_118761396

There is a case to answer there, but it's for another day and a different thread.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763327#Comment_118763327

Part of my solution is a third more ewes. Lol