Interdepartmental HEO

lanawinters

It was internal AGS

lanawinters

It was internal AGS

Skweefie

Maybe they meant the beginning of July? Damn this refreshing the candidate portal

08122019

Fairly sure they meant what they originally said. These competitions always get delayed. If anything they probably made things worse for themselves by getting the first round results back so quickly.

ilovethistles

I expect that they are shortlisting as we speak and the next message will be to inform us as to whether or not you passed and what your new oom is…

Im hoping we hear by the end of next week maybe…

Ber25

Is it that PAS are starting to shortlist the applications in early June or that the results of stage 2 will be out in early June? Difficult to tell from the message

ilovethistles

I understood it to mean they would begin the process in early June…

08122019

Successful candidates will be brought forward to stage 2 in early June…seems straight forward enough.

Merrymac

"Stage 2 of the selection process will consist of shortlisting. It is initially intended that all successful candidates from Stage 1 who selected Dublin as a location choice will be brought to Stage 2 in early June "

I took this to mean that shortlisting based on application forms was commencing early June with no indication of how long it would take to be completed and no confirmation if those brought through after Stage 2 would be invited to another test Stage or straight to interview 🤔

Ber25

Yeah. That's what I thought. I'd imagine it will be a while before we hear anything

VitreousLife

the wait is a killer!

Skweefie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200952#Comment_119200952

I was joking... but yes I agree they probably just wanted stage 1 to go away so got the results out quickly. The reference to early June is a headmelt as early June has passed already. The other posters may have a point about the stage 2 process having started, we just wont be notified until they finish. Sigh, time will tell

DeEdge

Did anyone who did the retest after the pop up issue, find the different set of questions easier that the first set ?

Would love to know the stats of how many failed that stuck with their original results.

I have heard a few who narrowly just missed the cut.

Find it hard how PAS can base OOM on 2 different set of questions for the one test.

jules86

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210404#Comment_119210404

They were the same set of questions

Csk2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210404#Comment_119210404

My experience was they were very similar.

caznemoy

I didn't have the same set of questions.. I found them more difficult the 2nd time though to be fair I didn't get to ans alot the first time as I was badly affected by the pop ups.

DeEdge

Oh, think PAS may have left themselves open on this one, if the same questions were issued in the retest, some could rightly say this put the ones who did the retest at an advantage.

DeEdge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210576#Comment_119210576

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210576#Comment_119210576

Wow, 2 sets of questions for the same competition can that be classed as fair to judge the OOM on for everyone fairly ? And some saying they received the same questions in the retest. PAS may have got this one wrong, could be reason why no additional updates from them

Acquiescence

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210485#Comment_119210485

Do you know this to be true?

tgdaly

I don't personally think having done the same set of questions or different set makes any difference to the fairness of this. I think people are overthinking it. If you were doing the same set I don't think you'd even remember the content or the answers you gave first time around, especially since you're speed reading everything with little time to think about it. If you've done a different set they'd surely be no less difficult or more easy than the original set.

I declined to do a resit and stuck with my original tests. I don't personally have any problem with people having done resits. In fairness it has been a bit of a mess up by PAS though

DeEdge

Just has created so much doubt in the competition. Doesn't effect me to be honest, however still seems unjust for some. I have spoken to a few who declined the re-test (even though they had the pop up issue) and they narrowly missed the cut. Wonder if they did the retest with the new questions would they have made the cut, was the second set of Qs easier or harder that first test.

Was the same questions issued to some in the resit ? Which has been stated on here.

2 sets of questions for the one competition just doesn't seem right, how can they base the OOM fairly . Candidates based on one set and candidates based on another set.

Be interesting to see how many candidates failed the first set of questions and then passed the resit questions or visa verse. I'm sure PAS would have those stats

So much doubt for candidates.

PAS maybe should have advanced everyone and introduced a another test to short list or made everyone resit the test with the same questions. Pretty poor for HEO comp.

jules86

Well I didn't take note of every single question in both but I'm pretty sure they were the same but in random order.

dowdly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211698#Comment_119211698

That's odd, when I resat the tests they had different questions. They definitely changed the names of companies and people.

08122019

I definitely didn’t get the same set of questions. The tabs were the same but the questions were different.

I’d take anyone saying they heard someone got the exact same set of questions with a pinch of salt. It tends to be an attempt to justify not doing as well as expected.

Csk2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211515#Comment_119211515

I'm no fan of pas, but I'm not sure anyone would have thanked them for restarting the competition. To be fair everyone was offered a resit. In terms of different sets of questions, how do we know everyone got the same set to begin with? Previously, before proctoring they definitely used different questions for different candidates. I'm failing to see an issue here.

08122019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119206355#Comment_119206355

The stage one results are quantitative so can be done quickly. You can’t really do that with shortlisting, every application has to checked manually. Early June really looks like a commencement date based on the message so we could be waiting a while yet.

Honestly no idea why they don’t call people forward in batches for the interview stage once they are successfully shortlisted. The only way your OOM will change is if the people in front of you aren’t shortlisted, there won’t really be any major jumps. They could keep going through the OOM until they have 100 candidates shortlisted, call them batch 1 and then be shortlisting batch 2 while batch 1are being interviewed.

DeEdge

As I said this doesn't impact me in anyway, however I feel the values of the civil service and the HEO role standards are really tested here.

How could PAS now base it a fair competition with giving candidates a different set of questions to answer ? Surely a competition of HEO standards would need to have the same questions available to all candidates to be deemed a fair competition in order to base everyone's results fairly. To my knowledge it is this way at AP level.

This was a technical issue by the test provider that impacted majority of the candidates. Was this not tested before going live ? A flaw straight away in the test which creates doubts as if there were any additional faults with the test. Strange some I spoke with declined the resit and failed ,anyone I know who did the resit passed.

I don't think offering a resit was the answer as it seems so many were afraid to take a chance on redoing it, personal choice however a situation they shouldn't have been put in.

PAS could have easily said, due to this technical issue we have advanced your application to the next stage and then simply introduced a new test to shortlist.

avocadoator

I am sure there is more than one test available from the test provider. They would just have offered one of the same level of difficulty. It's not relevant imo. If the test is of a similar level of difficulty it makes no difference to the result. Every person was given the same choice - resit or don't.

If you achieved the level required you passed. It was unfortunate it happened but there's no point dwelling on it.

PS I choose not to resit and I passed

Csk2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212719#Comment_119212719

I wouldn't agree with your comments about the Civil service and its value here. A mistake was made, pas put their hands up and offered a solution.

People being afraid to do a resit comes down to personal judgment and responsibility, I find it hard to say that pas should have made an unilateral decision (what about those who felt they did well on the initial test?)

I may be missing your meaning regarding a competition of HEO standards....whether a CO or PO comp, standards should be the same?

08122019

I don’t think it’s always the case where every candidate in a competition has been given the exact same set of questions. I know I’ve been in previous competitions with people and we’ve gotten different sets of questions.

Whether you ask ‘What’s 2 + 2’ or ‘What’s 3 + 1’ you’re testing the same thing and maintaining the integrity/validity of the process. Strange to try and repeatedly undermine something that doesn’t impact you in any way.

DeEdge

Value of the civil service is to provide an excellent service on behalf of Government which PAS in my eyes simply did not deliver in this competition, as we know this was not the only mistake made in this competition todate. Are we content to accept sub standards from the body who are employed to higher civil service staff ?

As I did say the resit was a personal choice, however a decision candidates should not of had to make.

I don't see how a decision to advance everyone due to the technical issue would have impacted anyone who did well, everyone would have just had to simply continue as normal and PAS do have a back up plan to call on additional tests. Doubt if PAS would have received any complaints from candidates who advanced to the next stage to be honest.

HEO is the probally the backbone of the civil service and requires high standards to deliver what is required and exactly from CO to PO comp standards should be the same, why didn't this HEO comp receive these standards ?

caznemoy

It was a technical issue, things like this happen every day in every office/Dept across the country. While it wasn't ideal, PAS responded in what I would say was the best way they could have by offering the resit to everyone. It was a way of offering those who were really affected by the issue a fair chance at the test. I would imagine those who weren't affected by the issue would have stayed with their original test. If I hadn't been affected I wouldn't have resat the test regardless of how I felt it went. Due to the issue I didn't get to ans many questions.

Advancing everyone would mean another test for everyone to complete, which means more commitment from all involved. I don't think I'd have wanted another stage. If I didn't pass I'd just move on. If I'm out after the next stage so be it, I didn't make the cut. That's how these competitions work.

08122019

Does anyone know if shortlisting was done for the 2020 campaign between tests and interviews?

i applied but never bothered with the initial tests so didn’t follow the stages.

Csk2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119217684#Comment_119217684

Do you mean 2019? If so, yes and we waited ages for the results of the shortlisting. Last year there was another comp and shortlisting was done on an asynchronous video interview

Dave 101

Results of stage 2 are out..

“Please note, candidates scores will carry across for each county they applied for. However, at present only candidates up to and including the order of merit 422 from Stage 1 Dublin and order of merit 55 from Stage 1 Galway have been assessed at Stage 2. Further shortlisting will take place at a later date. 

 

It is envisaged that candidates up to and including the order of merit 140 from Stage 2 Dublin will be invited to Stage 3 Interview & Presentation in early July 2022. Please note, this is subject to change.”

clairevoyant

Got an update this evening re shortlisting

At present we have shortlisted candidates up to and including order of merit 422 from stage 1 for Dublin and up to and including order of merit 55 from Stage 1 for Galway. 

raven500

I was placed in the 80s OOM for the Dublin comp after stage 1. Have just been informed that I haven't been shortlisted. They are marking app forms under 4 categories and I didn't pass 2 of them. So the application form examples are key. Good luck everyone!

avocadoator

Shortlisting on forms as I suspected. They haven't reached my OOM yet so be interesting to see when that happens! Best of luck everyone

Dubjane

Oh wow that's really unfortunate sorry to hear that

Csk2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119227993#Comment_119227993

So sorry to hear this. I have been in the same position previously. Do you mind telling me if the influence is on "Leadership" like previous competitions?

ilovethistles

They haven’t reached my number yet… Do ye reckon 422 applicants were whittled down to 140?

I'm through to the next stage. Not in Batch one but will be in batch 2 for sure. Interestingly enough I dropped 5 places in the OOM

Rabaen

I was 168 oom but just got notified i didn't pass the shortlisting. I'm an EO with no staff under me. That's two HEOs I've not passed because of Team Leadership. I usually score high in the tests but can't get past that staff issue. It seems bonkers I'd have to leave a great role i really like to get that up on my applications.

Disappointing to say the least. I feel like ranting but i think I'll have some ice cream instead...

pawrick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228030#Comment_119228030

Maximun score in each area was 50, qualifying score was 21 (in each).

Each area: Team Leadership, Managing Projects & Delivery of Results, Judgement, Analysis & Decision Making, interpersonal & Communications Skills

Combined score determined new OOM

ilovethistles

Ok so there are more than 140 through to stage 3…

avocadoator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228041#Comment_119228041

Hard luck. Leadership is such a tough one to pass. It's not so much about having staff as being able to show you have the ability to lead. Maybe get involved in a working group or training? I think they like that kind of thing. It's very disappointing

StokesDrift

Didn't pass the shortlisting - failed on team leadership. I've no staff reporting to me and the nature of the work does not give many opportunities to show team leadership. Seems strange considering you've no control over where you end up as an EO. Even if I was to leave my current role, there's no guarantee the next role will see me with any staff or leadership opportunities. Am feeling very disappointed

raven500

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119228030#Comment_119228030

Well I failed Team Leadership and Analysis & Decision making. Got good scores in managing projects etc. and communications. Like others on here I have no one reporting to me, but I gave examples of teams I have led on projects including decision making and quite big judgement calls. I guess they didn't like the examples. I suppose there are key words / phrases they are looking for. I wasn't surprised not to be shortlisted to be honest so not too disappointed.

Burton

Placed in top 90 and just got notified i didnt get through for team leadership. even though I have not had any staff since the start of Covid and have had to run my entire department alone. welp. thats me looking for a new job.

08122019

Are people expecting interviews/presentations to be held in person?