Exiting suckler cow farming.

Homer jay

Hi all, just looking for some advice on getting out of suckler farming, we live on a typical small farm in the west of Ireland, suckler cows was always the way, in the last few years I started buying in small amounts of ewe lambs and selling as Hoggets, nice little turn in them for not alot of work but a few of them would lamb and I would sell the ewe and lambs at two weeks old, that was until the kids wouldn't let me sell them as they liked them 😂😂, so now I have 25 ewes lambing this year .... but back to the original question, what would be the most cost effective way to get out of the cows, sell in calf now or next Sept/Oct after weaning, sell with calves at foot in June or keep the weanlings not put cows in calf this year and sell dry next Feb. The plan is to keep a few more ewes and buy in heifer weanlings in Oct each year afterwards to run with the sheep. Sorry for the long winded post but with these six month winters suckler farming is just costing money and eating up any family time as I also work full-time. Thanks in advance Homer.

Easten

Chinese proverb that says: “The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” I think you can apply the same logic to getting out of Suckler farming.

If you want to exit then do it now, there's no best time. You can sell the cows at all stages and get paid accordingly. A Cow in autumn after rearing a calf will not sell as well as an empty cow for grass in spring so it's swings and roundabouts with regard to most efficient exit. Unless you have something else to graze the grass for the summer then you might as well let them rear the calves and sell both cow and calf in autumn.

Myself I haven't decided what to do yet so will carry on for now, but if I decide to change systems then I'll not be trying to time the market. I'll make a clean sweep and hit the reset button.

minerleague

I'd go along with Easten above, If you've made the decision to exit sell them now ( how close to calving? )

Rusheseverywhere

Thinking of exiting myself. Do not sell with calf at foot as you will not get enough. I got 6 to 700 more for cows was selling with calf at foot by waiting 3 months and selling dry cows and calves as weanlings. I would sell all and make a fresh start. Weanlings to beef what I am thinking of going into .

SuperTortoise

What are the tax implications on exiting?

If for example cows and calfs are sold at the back end and you don't restock until the following spring are you not going to have to write a cheque for 50% tax?

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710722#Comment_118710722

Could you sell the calves at 4-8 weeks and summer graze the cows and have sold by August

jfh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710788#Comment_118710788

Would you not have a problem with drying off the cows? Suckler Calves would sell very well alright

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710745#Comment_118710745

Providing you have the stock in at the correct value in your accounts there shouldn't be any problem, Ive reduced my stock twice without any problem

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710988#Comment_118710988

am I right in saying if you have it cash in the bank at the end of year it’s not taken as profit, as cash in the bank and cattle on the farm are both just an asset. It if you had less cash the following year and still no stock then that would be seen as drawings and be taxed?

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118711076#Comment_118711076

I don't think you're right, you're taxed on your profitL Less Cash in the bank or change in stock will be reflected in your accounts but neither means more profit.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710981#Comment_118710981

Don’t know, have never done it. Would a few weeks inside on hay be enough

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710988#Comment_118710988

Stock are normally valued at about two thirds of their value. I think there could be some tax on the other one third. If you are buying in heifers there should be no problem. Like Wrangler I have reduced stock in the past without problem. It's a good few years ago so can't remember exactly how it was done

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118711322#Comment_118711322

I wouldn't be good on accounts, but I knew that I had nothing to fear tax wise in destocking.

I used to always compare the bank accounts at the beginning and end of year to be aware of where I was going, it's always a good indicator when your stock numbers are stable.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118711139#Comment_118711139

As long as you had the stock valued correctly, if undervalued you may be hit for tax but remember Stock relief cannot be claimed in a year in which a farmer ceases to trade

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710981#Comment_118710981

4 tubes of dry cow will sort it out.

blue5000

Feed meal to the cows before weaning the calves early, they should fatten then in autumn and be gone before the winter. Winter is where the money goes with sucklers. I think there is a long withdrawal period with DC tubes, maybe 60 days? Dairy lads will know.

Dozer1

Picked up a few cows from a few clearance sales last few days, have to say 2 of the sales the cows were in poor order, big framey cows calving March for 1200 to 1480 euro all avg 680+ kgs, a bit of feeding and they'd have made a good bit more.

if it was me I'd follow Blue's advise above, get meal into them preweaning it'll do cow and calf good and you can choose to sell live as a good strong cull or kill them yourself

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712544#Comment_118712544

Only for milk, Zero for meat.

https://www.msd-animal-health.co.in/products/cepravin-dry-cow/#:~:text=Withdrawal%20Period%3A,plus%2096%20hours%20after%20treatment.

Edit: Source Added

jfh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118715179#Comment_118715179

Well there you go, dry cow tubes are they way to go, only risk is decapitation

JustJoe7240

Tie a leg back Is the only way to go when drying off a suckler.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118716393#Comment_118716393

I find a rope tied around the body just in front of the elder and tightened is more effective. They'll not do you any harm once it's in place and they don't fight it like having a leg tied back.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118716759#Comment_118716759

Have an electric winch here over the crush. €70 from Lidl 3 years ago. Great job for it.

jfh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118717026#Comment_118717026

That's a great idea Grueller, must keep an eye out

Homer jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118709274#Comment_118709274

There doesn't seem a great trade for aged middle of the road incalf cows unless they are 800kg plus U type cows. Calving the cows and running them for the summer would seem like better idea than selling now as incalf.

Homer jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710254#Comment_118710254

6 calved and 13 more to calve, most of them calving in April.

Homer jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118710722#Comment_118710722

Was thinking that better to sell cows dry any hold on to the weanlings.

Homer jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118712544#Comment_118712544

This seems like the better option, it's as well to try maximise what can be got as its dry cows that seem to be mad trade at the moment, wheather that will carry through till the end of the year.

Homer jay

What weight gain would ye expect to put on 300/350kg lim/ch weanling heifers, bought in early Oct, housed on good silage and 1/1.5kg meal for the winter and grazed the following summer for resale in the Sept/Oct ?

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118726356#Comment_118726356

250kg (300 kg would be good performance) On your other point if your cows are older (anything over 8 yo ) you're probably right not to sell in-calf as no-one seems to want older suckler cows

Dickie10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118711370#Comment_118711370

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118711370#Comment_118711370

i pick May 1st as my new start to the year, thats when i check in on what cash is in the bank. imlike to have a figure in my head beacause for me May 1st is the hardest financial time.

Homer jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118728275#Comment_118728275

Not sure which way to go with the cows, whether to get out completely or half the numbers, what type of stock did others get into after getting out of sucklers ? Do Iike the idea of dairy calf to beef as not really possible to sell in mart so would need to be carried on to slaughter, land around here wouldn't have the power for finishing cattle so a lot of meal would be required. I know people will say sell the lot and lease out the land but I couldn't look out the window and look at another man farming the land and also I find it great form of relaxing to walk the land and watch the progress of stock.