Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

Tonynewholland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832998#Comment_121832998

What did any European country do in the 12 months Russia was building up on the border, nothing at all. The US was the only country sounding the warnings. I think most EU leaders just expected the country to be overrun in a few days and everything would be grand again after a few sanctions imposed on Russia. It’s hard to blame the likes of Trump when he wants Europe to pay more for its own defence

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836430#Comment_121836430

Not much, but then again I'm not sure what they were supposed to do under the circumstances. Europe wasn't on a war footing. Likewise the US wasn't prepared for 911 despite all the warnings.

Most of us, including analysts assumed it was a bluff by Putin for concessions (like Kim). There were plenty of warnings, they only became real about 1 or 2 weeks before invasion when it was noticed that the Russians were e.g. moving in blood reserves.

Yes, now, Europe does have to pay more for defence. Two-thirds of NATO countries are now hitting there targets as opposed to something like one third two years ago. The Putin we are dealing with now is very different from the one pre 2013. We've cut the energy umbilical (something that was thought to be impossible), applied to strongest sanctions possible and countries are facing the fresh reality of a new defense outlook. Some are dragging their heels, but that will never change.

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836247#Comment_121836247

Surely there's some sort of propaganda spin for Ukraine.

There's no real advantage to keeping it hushed up.

Breaking through heavily fortified areas is very difficult and costly. Showing off to the world that Russia has many more adiivkas to go through before taking a bigger stretch of land might make Russia start to reconsider while also giving the ukrainians a boost that they will be defending heavily prepared positions that they can hold with less cost.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121836430#Comment_121836430

The one time article 5 was used was by the yanks .......... never have I heard of the European coalition sending an invoice to the USA............. I would laugh out loud if they decided to send one to Trump as an ex president. Just for the laughs

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121840375#Comment_121840375

He's in serious bother moneywise with the near half a billion fine in his new York Real estate fraud case, hasn't the bond cash on-hand either to appeal it, needs to lodge the above amount to do so, theirs a 100k a day intrest going onto the above amount aswell that it's outstanding, he seems to be running out of road

,

yosemitesam1

https://kyivindependent.com/abandon-all-hope-ukraines-wounded-warriors-compare-military-medical-system-to-the-inferno/

Doctors looking for bribes off injured soldiers to give them what they're entitled to... How low can you get?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121891335#Comment_121891335

Absolutely, like many veteran care systems around the world, the Ukrainian system is badly in need of reform. Keep in mind that Ukraine is a poor country, and it's being invaded, so it might not happen tomorrow.

Again, you are systematically finding anything negative about Ukraine to act "concerned" about as part of your stance against Ukraine.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121891335#Comment_121891335

Not good indeed. They got as far as somewhere to get treatment. The Russians are left to rot

yosemitesam1

Fairly miserable outlook. Seems that things have a bit yet to go before both sides have run out of steam.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68778338.amp

Tonynewholland

Look at the effort the world put into protecting Israel the other night, they are only giving Ukraine scraps of the table at this stage.

yosemitesam1

https://www.ft.com/content/dd1d3074-61af-4edb-9ed4-a3530158623e

Will they all just come here instead?

It's not the sort of thing you'd be expecting if they only had 30k soldiers killed...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065160#Comment_122065160

Invasions are scary, people run away. It's only natural.

If Russia invaded Ireland, based on what you've expressed in your posting history here, it's obvious you would be one of the first to run.

Incredibly, somehow, despite being much smaller and less powerful than the invaders, many Ukrainians bucked that trend, and stayed and fought. Unfortunately, not all. It's also been two years of gruelling fighting. Therefore, including more recently, there are efforts to try and encourage and push others to come back as they desperately need troops.

Any nation under attack, fighting for survival, needs to keep national morale up at all costs. However since you openly want Ukraine to fail, like the Russian TV hosts, you predictably seize on any story that you perceive bucks their propaganda.

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065465#Comment_122065465

I don't want Ukraine to fail. I just don't want them to be part of the EU. There's a big difference.

There is lots of things that don't add up with their story though.

One minute it's only 30k deaths but yet they're severely short of men.

They are defending against a terrible regime who wants to destroy all of Ukraine and it's people but yet where are all the fighters? They aren't dead or injured according to Ukraine so why are Ukrainians so reluctant to fight.

Obvious answers are much more deaths have occurred than reported and/or the average person doesn't want to give their life so those on top continue to make lots of money. But this is Russian propaganda so it can't be true...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065839#Comment_122065839

The "but I'm confused" act

Putin is attempting to conquer and subjugate Ukraine, a country that poses no threat to Russia. To that end he uses propaganda to manipulate Russians into narratives that Ukraine is somehow a threat (Nazi's, etc), to validate the invasion, which involves killing people and taking their property and land. Invaders propaganda, there is no merit to it.

Ukraine is having to defend itself, as such it needs propaganda to keep national morale up, critical for defending the country, keeping spirits up (and not collapsing). As such if they've e.g. lost 60k troops they may say they have only lost 30k.

Two very different types of propaganda.

Everyone and their dog understands this.

You play a game in this thread where you pedantically pick through Ukrainian statements with this "confused" act. I see pro-Russian posters on social media (and Russian TV hosts) doing this all the time, e.g. "oh I thought Ukrainian soldiers were the bravest in the world, so why are some leaving Ukraine?", "Oh I see the Ukrainians lost a town, we were told they were doing well, very strange", "I keep seeing destroyed Abraams, we were told they would change the war"

It's mealy-mouthed stuff.

gk5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065839#Comment_122065839

I for one want Ukraine to be part of the EU, obviously at the right time when this is over, they have repelled the invader and have sorted our their legacy issues due to being subjugated by Russia within the Soviet Union for so long.

Their spirit and resolve can only be a good thing for the EU. And if farmers are worried, it is at least better if produce and competition are coming from Ukraine as opposed to Brazil etc…

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065839#Comment_122065839

what have you got against UKr being I a FULL member of the EU?