Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

Not much, but then again I'm not sure what they were supposed to do under the circumstances. Europe wasn't on a war footing. Likewise the US wasn't prepared for 911 despite all the warnings.

Most of us, including analysts assumed it was a bluff by Putin for concessions (like Kim). There were plenty of warnings, they only became real about 1 or 2 weeks before invasion when it was noticed that the Russians were e.g. moving in blood reserves.

Yes, now, Europe does have to pay more for defence. Two-thirds of NATO countries are now hitting there targets as opposed to something like one third two years ago. The Putin we are dealing with now is very different from the one pre 2013. We've cut the energy umbilical (something that was thought to be impossible), applied to strongest sanctions possible and countries are facing the fresh reality of a new defense outlook. Some are dragging their heels, but that will never change.

The one time article 5 was used was by the yanks .......... never have I heard of the European coalition sending an invoice to the USA............. I would laugh out loud if they decided to send one to Trump as an ex president. Just for the laughs

Doctors looking for bribes off injured soldiers to give them what they're entitled to... How low can you get?

Not good indeed. They got as far as somewhere to get treatment. The Russians are left to rot

Look at the effort the world put into protecting Israel the other night, they are only giving Ukraine scraps of the table at this stage.

Invasions are scary, people run away. It's only natural.

If Russia invaded Ireland, based on what you've expressed in your posting history here, it's obvious you would be one of the first to run.

Incredibly, somehow, despite being much smaller and less powerful than the invaders, many Ukrainians bucked that trend, and stayed and fought. Unfortunately, not all. It's also been two years of gruelling fighting. Therefore, including more recently, there are efforts to try and encourage and push others to come back as they desperately need troops.

Any nation under attack, fighting for survival, needs to keep national morale up at all costs. However since you openly want Ukraine to fail, like the Russian TV hosts, you predictably seize on any story that you perceive bucks their propaganda.

The "but I'm confused" act

Putin is attempting to conquer and subjugate Ukraine, a country that poses no threat to Russia. To that end he uses propaganda to manipulate Russians into narratives that Ukraine is somehow a threat (Nazi's, etc), to validate the invasion, which involves killing people and taking their property and land. Invaders propaganda, there is no merit to it.

Ukraine is having to defend itself, as such it needs propaganda to keep national morale up, critical for defending the country, keeping spirits up (and not collapsing). As such if they've e.g. lost 60k troops they may say they have only lost 30k.

Two very different types of propaganda.

Everyone and their dog understands this.

You play a game in this thread where you pedantically pick through Ukrainian statements with this "confused" act. I see pro-Russian posters on social media (and Russian TV hosts) doing this all the time, e.g. "oh I thought Ukrainian soldiers were the bravest in the world, so why are some leaving Ukraine?", "Oh I see the Ukrainians lost a town, we were told they were doing well, very strange", "I keep seeing destroyed Abraams, we were told they would change the war"

It's mealy-mouthed stuff.

what have you got against UKr being I a FULL member of the EU?

Sher they are as crooked as fuuuck,

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/26/ukraines-agriculture-minister-detained-in-multimillion-dollar-corruption-probe

And just what did you expect when Russia was the Mother and Putin the Father?? One or perhaps the main reason Ukraine sought independence and closer links to the EU was to eventually rid themselves of this corruption? And they will succeed too, but first Putin has to be defeated. Bear in mind that all ex-USSR countrys were corrupt to when they left. They will be an asset to the EU when they do get to join.

Ukraine is a very wealthy country if measured by its minerals, oil and gas reserves, when they are developed and of course by its agriculture. At least one of the reasons Putin invaded was to control Ukraine's riches. Ukraine will be a welcome addition to the EU, and not the least from a security viewpoint, just like Poland is fast becoming a strong military force to be reckoned with, because while Putin exists, he will wage war.

We've been independent since 1922 and we're crooked at fuuuuck also, though in a more subtle way.

Just ask those people waiting 43 years for an inquest - never mind justice.
And the parents of that girl who died in UL Limerick waiting to be seen, or a few antibiotics.
Or the millions hived of to the legal proffession in all the tribunals/inquiries without getting anywhere.
How long and how much for our childrens hospital, and who is responsible?

I think the Ukrainians's will sort out their corruption hangover from Russian involvement in less than 10 years, whereas we're 100 years and still ape the worst parts of old British empire style rule.

And again, you want food and competion from Ukraine or instead Brazil cutting down the rain forest to do so?

Sit down for a minute yosemitesam. Some facts for you:- 1.2 trillion CM reserves Proven reserves, but maybe as high as 5.4 trillion CMS. Crimea Black Sea has vast odd shore oil deposits and between 4 -13 trillion CM's Gas deposits. Ukraine ranks 4th globally in value of natural resources. In recoverable rare earth materials in Europe. They have a very long list of big sounding names all ending in "IUM", but in big demand for Computer memory, rechargeable batterys, cell phones and multiple other high demand everyday items. And this is before we get to the coal and agriculture end of the business. They had a very successful airplane design and building industry too and will have again. You can bet your bottom dollar that when Putin is gone, the business world ( inc EU/ UK) will be queuing at Ukraines door for a slice of the rebuilding action. And you can be sure that Putin knew all of this before he invaded, and for sure all the hogwash about NATO was exactly that Hogwash!!!

We didn't bring much to the EU when we joined (quite the opposite)

Most people in most EU countries support Ukraine joining the EU (over here it's at about 70%) and the process has already started.

The difference with us is while we brought nothing, we didn't come with huge costs and a massive agri sector that cannot be incorporated with the single market without causing massive pain.