Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121819088#Comment_121819088

Some posters here find it difficult to differentiate between others being critical of the way propaganda is being portrayed as fact, and people being anti-Ukraine.

I'd love to know what is really going on, but both sides lie to us. It is stupid to take Zelensky's word for anything because he is not going to say anything that would lower his army's morale. The exact same is true of Putin, there is no reason to believe a word he says about the war.

If the figure of 31k Ukrainian soldiers killed over the last two years is true, they have done very well when you consider that in another conflict the same toll has been reached (mainly civilians though) in just four months.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121821766#Comment_121821766

There's the "both sides" again.

To repeat this can be a red flag that someone believes that "both sides" are equivalent. In this case, a democratic neutral country and the invader. This technique is on page 1 of the autocrat playbook.

Secondly posters have openly admitted to being against Ukraine. Some others are, but attempt to mask it. Both are not stupid enough to directly support Putin, but indirectly do so by repeating many of his talking points and engaging in other techniques (concern-trolling, contrarianism, etc) which plainly gives it away.

In this case being overly pedantic about Ukrainian propaganda. The Ukrainians are in an extreme situation, their survival as people and as a country is at stake, as such they use a relative amount of propaganda to keep national morale and troop morale up. If we in Ireland were being invaded, we would be doing the same thing.

I've criticised some Ukrainian propaganda (as clumsy, etc) but that comes from a position of support. The views of these individuals don't come from a position of support, rather a systematic and constant petty criticism of Ukraine/Zelensky at any opportunity

Tonynewholland

From listening to the radio this morning the best way we could keep Ukraine now is sending back everyone that could actually do something to help in the war effort

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823123#Comment_121823123

It's not really being pedantic about Ukrainian propaganda to say that zelensky pulled the 30k dead figure out of his arse. They would have zero manpower issues if it was even remotely true.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823440#Comment_121823440

How do you know?

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823440#Comment_121823440

The kia to injured ratio was estimated at 5:1 last summer for ukriane, 3 out of 5 injured soldiers probably won't be able to go back so in reality your down over 100k trained/expirenced troops, given their recuirment issues it's probably why their going to be in defensive mode for the rest of the war

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121817979#Comment_121817979

He's concerned that Ukrainian farm produce will hurt his own earnings imo. <MOD EDIT>

148multi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824626#Comment_121824626

Here's a vid about it, the retired soldier says probably 60,000. Amputees.

God love them, can it be that difficult to send ammo and shells.

https://youtu.be/P0i-Dk5RLr0?si=B6OrQAm9g9ssFcG8

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121823440#Comment_121823440

That vulgar language is despicable in the current circumstances.

Tonynewholland

If you don’t sing the praises of Zelensky here you’re automatically pro Kremlin.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741335#Comment_121741335

Definitely, and never lived in Putin's Russia either!

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827332#Comment_121827332

Not at all. If however someone's only contribution is to systematically criticise and low-blow Zelensky/Ukraine at every opportunity, that reveals everything.

That's Clare Daly and Mick Wallace territory. Two MEPs who repeatedly vote in favour of Putin's Russia against Europe. The only difference being they are shrewd enough to sprinkle in some faux "criticism" of Putin every once in awhile in a vain attempt to make people think they are objective..

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121827609#Comment_121827609

Tell us why have Ukraine gone from having a reserve of 100,000+ trained men and fully manned frontlines to having their men on the frontlines saying that they are short of men with negligible reserves all in less than 8 months.

Either western media sources are lying, or Ukrainian soldiers are lying to western media, or zelensky and his government is lying. Which is it?

Obvious answer is zelensky is in order to make things sound less worse and get more aid/recruits. The others have nothing to gain.

We have no obligation to lose ourselves in all the propaganda hype. Ukraine aren't fighting for us, they're fighting for themselves and we don't owe them anything now or long-term after all this fighting eventually ends.

roosterman71

You forgot to mention that the troops are spread out further along the line instead of grouped in pockets at differing locations

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828252#Comment_121828252

Absurd. They're are fighting for us and for Europe and for democracy and freedom. Against a megalomaniac murderous thug.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121828252#Comment_121828252

So that’s your take from the UKr side of things And what migh be your take from the Russian side of things ?

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121831037#Comment_121831037

His take is I'm working out OK. and I'm alright Jack fook everyone else

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121831037#Comment_121831037

Is this sarcasm?

Russia aren't going to come marching through Eastern Europe. They don't have anywhere near that capability and will never.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121831432#Comment_121831432

Theirs probably truth in that, Putins after the trillions of dollars of untapped rare earth minerals, that's currently located along the active fighting zones, he's looking ahead and trying to grab the ukrianian lands needed to fuel Russias next big commodities exports...

If he gets control over these areas in the next few months, he'll probaly agree to a ceasefire and a north/south Korea style border after getting ukrianes most prized lands

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121831545#Comment_121831545

Look at their air defence. They aren't bullet proof while only trying to defend across 1000km.

Up against a wider frontline with more advanced weapons, it would be even more carnage for them then they are currently suffering.

Russia do have the capability to make any attacks on them very difficult but they couldn't dream of taking on EU countries.

No doubt someone will say the usual line of oh they will just destabilise EU countries with other methods then a direct war. But they don't have their computer hackers/propaganda creators on the frontline. So the Ukraine war makes zero difference to this, if anything it makes it more important for Russia to keep pumping money into this area.

roosterman71

I see the Russians were fiddling with the IT system in the Department of Foreign Affairs lately. If anyone thinks this crowd are just fighting in **** trenches in fields and villages on the far side of Europe is delusional.

FintanMcluskey

I've spent 2 years in here reading how the Russians are powerless gombeens days away from freezing to death in the Ukranian wastelands.

The same people will argue how dangerous Russia is, and it's ability to take over Europe.

Perhaps those most selfish of all are the fat middle aged western men who want to keep sending Ukrainians to their death in a war they can't win behind a guise of "Slava Ukraine"

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832563#Comment_121832563

The same people will argue how dangerous Russia is

They are invading a European country. They have used energy as a weapon against us. Their hackers constantly target us. They attack European elections. Their propagandists talk endlessly about war on other European countries and nuking us. Leaks have shown that they believed a successful invasion of Ukraine would have fractured NATO and Europe giving them more "opportunities" (which is Putin's doctrine). Most would call that dangerous.

Apologists and contrarians seek to play this down or "create" some exaggerated generalisation to argue against.

Perhaps those most selfish of all are the fat middle aged western men who want to keep sending Ukrainians to their death in a war they can't win behind a guise of "Slava Ukraine"

The Ukrainians chose to defend themselves. They made that decision from day 1. They are sacrificing their own lives for the future of their country and their people. Any territory they don't take back during this war will likely be lost forever to a nuclear-armed occupier. Every Russian piece of equipment they destroy is more pressure on their invaders. They don't have an option of "peace", they only have the option to defend or brutal occupation by an enemy who will likely break any treaty that is made in the future.

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121831330#Comment_121831330

Is he that shallow?

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832563#Comment_121832563

Your first two sentences are directly contradictory. Together they are a nonsense.

In the third sentence/paragraph the use of the word 'selfish' with 'most' implies the subjects of the first two sentences are selfish (people).

What a strange construction.You don't have a clue do you?

greysides

Mod: Keep personal remarks out of this discussion.

Warnings have been issued. Escalation will follow.

Battlelines may be drawn up. Attrition will result. Stalemate will not happen. Nuking may be necessary. This could result in the end of life (on this thread) as we know it.

older by the day

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121835249#Comment_121835249

If you go back to the start of the discussion, myself and others got ate when we said not to discount Russia. There were lads putting up pictures of tanks breaking down and falling apart. Laughing at how disorganized they were. Years later and billions spent it's still the same way.

Would that Leo and Martin ever keep there noses out of it. Every one knows the Irish army could not beat pussy. It's only to get the fools here to try and join some European army. Feck neutrality, they don't give a Shiite about us, only Europe

Most here got carried away with Europes campaign to tell us all "the war Will be over by Christmas". It was only idiots that underestimated Russia

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121835387#Comment_121835387

The main/big ‘ game changer ‘ is the sheer numbers of soldiers that Russia are throwing at the front lines . Surely there must be an end to this supply - either it will run out of numbers/refusing to take part/ God forbid a populist uprising against the war

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121835750#Comment_121835750

Is there any real signs of any big shift? Maybe the supply will just stop one day but for now they seem to have a constant supply.

It doesn't seem to make sense why Ukraine aren't recruiting heavily. You'd imagine even rounding up a load of lads to dig trenches, build fortifications like the russian lines would be happening but it doesn't seem to be.

If we take zelensky at his word they're down 30k men dead and say another 100k injured, while 300k men turn 18 every year there. They should have a much greater supply of men.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121835892#Comment_121835892

You'd imagine even rounding up a load of lads to dig trenches, build fortifications like the russian lines would be happening but it doesn't seem to be.

Lets not pretend you have a clue if this is happening - 'Doesn't seem to be' do you expect this to be headline information?