Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149962#Comment_119149962

Neither side is really "winning". Russia's goal was (quite plainly) the collapse of the entire country. That didn't happen, so they have been forced to keep downsizing their objectives to what they are now. This is the third or fourth iteration of their pincer movement on the East, each smaller than the last.

Putin hasn't so declared war yet for numerous reasons. It has benefits but also drawbacks. Likewise it's not a magic button for manpower, Russia seems to be contending with serious morale issues and infighting. Ukraine isn't without it's issues either, especially in terms of equipment and supplies.

I expect Russia to keep making gains in the East for now, but I definitely think time is against them. They are bringing up T64's and throwing Wagner mercenaries at the front, not a good sign. They are also having problems in e.g. Kherson where the Ukrainians have liberated around 20 settlements recently.

"DeNazification" was never a goal, likewise preventing some fictitious genocide, those were just emotive pieces of propaganda to generate support for an invasion that was going to happen regardless.

I also think we might see some surprises from Russia, such as a massing up North for something or nothing (if they can spare it) to tie up defenders.

Dohnjoe

..

https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1530067008246751233

BluePlanet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150064#Comment_119150064

That's not explicitly true though. We are inferring Russia's goals. There have only been general statements from Putin such as the De-Nazification.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150104#Comment_119150104

There's a degree of "if it quacks like a duck" going on here, that can't be naively ignored. Coupled with the entirety of human experience Vis a vis motives for invasion. No, Putin is not going to say "well, controlling Ukraine's grain harvest would be great for us". Villains scarcely think they're the bad guys in their own story. Though IIRC he's a believer in Historical Russia in terms of borders - which claims Ukraine as rightful territory.

By way of the most obvious recent example, Iraq 2003 was never openly declared as a blatant resource grab but we all know the result, especially once Haliburton and the like came swooping into the aftermath and its sundry connection. Publicly it was about faked intel and blather about freedom and democracy.

Christ unless I'm truly misremembering my Roman history, Julius Caesar invaded Gaul under the pretence of protecting against migrating tribes, the giant piles of Gaulish gold he amassed a fluke no doubt.

No, we can't know Putin's exact goals, and probably won't until he dies; and we certainly can't know his state of mind in underestimating Western response... but to loop back. If it quacks like a land grab, and smells like a land grab...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150104#Comment_119150104

It wouldn't make sense that they made a lightning attack on Kyiv, brought riot police with them, dug in to Chernobyl, booked Kyiv restaurants and wheeled out Yanukovych to install as new leader in Ukraine because they "only" wanted just to take Donbas and portions of the South.

Like Hungary, Czechoslovakia and most recently Afghanistan it's very likely they expected Ukraine to fall quickly. In fact, most analysts expected the same. Putin has boasted in the past he could take Ukraine in 2 weeks. Didn't happen, and now they are on, I don't know what now, plan D or E or something.

Dohnjoe

Some faintly good news, question now if it will hold or if the Russians will pull some shenanigans

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1532388235246190593

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119150145#Comment_119150145

I broadly agree except for the goal of controlling grain - a number of reasons that ukraine either as far as dnieper, or as far as the carpathians is a target for Russia.

Firstly, defence. Much easier to defend a geographical border like a large river or mountain range, than a mostly large open plain.

Secondly, control of sea of azov (ideally they would have had the whole Ukraine cost & control of black sea)

Third the crimean canal, without it crimea was near useless having insufficient fresh water. The land bridge also to DPR and Russia also ties into #2

4th priority would be the resources - oil & gas being the most prominent. Black sea fields and east Ukraine fields of gas are quite large, mineral wealth in Donbas also, controlling grain would be well down the list.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119145505#Comment_119145505

You would want to be a simpleton if you equate questioning a report that something occurred with pure denial. come and explain in person.

Good loser

So you think it didn't occur? Rape by Russian soldiers. And it's important to get this clarified?

I fail to see any importance.

Just an insight into what the Ukraine was actually like post US backed coup..

(And this isn't war time propaganda designed to trigger you emotionally..)

##MOD NOTE##

Don't attach files directly like this please - Put in a link.

Thanks

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151978#Comment_119151978

Can you post a link to the document rather than the document itself. I’d be very wary of download an unsourced a pdf posted by you for security reasons

I have friends that left Ukraine just before the population ousting the Russian puppet. They left because of the Russian puppet destroying the state and making life very difficult for ordinary people. I’m guessing that your pdf is from Russian sources due to your support for the war criminal regime there.

patnor1011

Strange how everyone is obsessed about how to get ukraine grain out. They would be wiser to move it within ukraine bit more westwards if they not done it already and keep it for their own people as they will need it anyway. It seems someone wants to make money out of it.

There are more important issues to be "concerned" about than this current looting of ukraine grain reserves. What about grain which will not be harvested and more importantly grain which was not planted? This will lead to even bigger problems by the end of the year, and the next, which ukraine could comfortably ride out and even make more money in the process if they keep it home. This "corridor" more looks to me as a plot to get ukraine grain for the pennies on the dollar as soon as possible.

McGiver

“We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

All that one needs to know about the Russian regime (any - Tzarist, Leninist, Stalinist, post-Stalinist, Putinist).

Nothing "official" Russian sources say is ever true. Anyone who supports here the Russian propaganda is directly supporting genocidal backward primitive inhumane regime and is a traitor.

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119152186#Comment_119152186

The UN body, World Food Programme (wfp.org) has, predictably a more accurate analysis of the effect that the russian attack on Ukraine is having on food security and states:

“Truly, failure to open those ports in Odesa region will be a declaration of war on global food security,” said Beasley. “And it will result in famine and destabilization and mass migration around the world.”

It has nothing to do with "a plot to get the ukraine grain for the pennies on the dollar", unless you believe that World Food Programme executive director David Beasley is corrupt and in on the plot you imagine...

https://www.wfp.org/stories/war-ukraine-wfp-chief-renews-call-open-black-sea-ports-global-food-security-stake

McGiver

The Seanead declares Russian invasion a genocide and joins several Central and Eastern European countries + Canada to do so 👍🏻

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2022-06-01/speech/206/

further agrees that:

- the acts carried out by the Russian military meet the criteria for genocide set out in the United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, and as such, the illegal invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation is an act of genocide;

calls for:

- Governments around the world to maintain and strengthen sanctions on the Russian Federation while working to end the imports of Russian oil, gas and coal which are funding the Russian war machine against the Ukrainian people and its territories; and

- the political leadership of the Russian Federation to be held accountable for its crimes in Ukraine.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119149172#Comment_119149172

A folk-rap fusion monstrosity. Dross but then so were all the other songs.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119120052#Comment_119120052

The Crimean referendum was not held under armed corecion or at gunpoint as some on here are falsely trying to assert. Have you been to Crimea? Do you know anybody there? Because I do. They said that there was absolutely zero interference or coercion surrounding the referendum. They were jubilant at the result. Not everyone was but the majority were. And as for your claim that no referendum should be conducted as swiftly as the Crimean one...why no? Who are you to dictate when people should vote for their own destiny? I might remind you that the Azov thugs were on their way to Crimea to slaughter them. Expediency was of the essence. Once the vote was passed the Kiev cutthroats halted as they knew they would be facing Russian commandos if they set one foot inside Crimea to embark on their reign of terror.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154958#Comment_119154958

It was held under arms, under occupation by a foreign power, in 10 days, they didn't have any option to maintain the status quo, no proper international monitoring, no proper public discourse, no proper period to inform all sides. It doesn't matter if 110% of Crimeans wanted to join Russia, they didn't have any democratic process on it.

The fact that certain individuals support fake "referendums" held by totalitarian states gives a hint into where their principles stand.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154958#Comment_119154958

Did the occupying force not bus out of Crimea Some of the population for a ‘holiday ‘ until the referendum was over!!!!!!!!

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154958#Comment_119154958

A total pack of lies from the poster of such previous lies as (utterly without merit or foundation) that Ukraine killed 15000 in the disputed regions pre-invasion.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154970#Comment_119154970

any opinion on Khrushchev’s 1954 referendum DJ?

Dohnjoe

..

https://twitter.com/GissiSim/status/1532816010968965120

Dohnjoe

As the Ukrainians predicted for years, Russia is there to colonise them.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1532808890274009089

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155673#Comment_119155673

Should have remained neutral and implemented the Minsk accords in retrospect I suppose..

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119155709#Comment_119155709

Implementing any Treaty or agreement made with the criminal russian regime would simply be a complete and total waste of time. The russian regime is wholly untrustworthy; they are liars through and through.

Dohnjoe

From the Beeb:

Ukraine says the Russian army looted or damaged more than 1,000 computers at the Chernobyl nuclear power station and stole trucks and radiation dosimeters.

Chernobyl's information director Vitaliy Medved said nuclear equipment was not damaged and "regarding radiation safety everything is OK".

The losses caused by the Russian occupation - now ended - are put at more than 1.6bn hryvnia (£44m; $54m).

The explosion of a reactor at Chernobyl spread radiation across Europe in 1986.

The decommissioned plant, north of Kyiv, lies near the Belarus border and was quickly occupied by Russian troops after their 24 February invasion.

Russian forces controlled the plant for five weeks before withdrawing on 31 March.

A team from the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has just ended a visit to Chernobyl and its surrounding 2,700sq km (1,040sq mile) exclusion zone.

An IAEA statement says they "provided support to their Ukrainian counterparts on radiation protection, safety of waste management and nuclear security".

Ukraine's nuclear inspectorate has confirmed to the BBC that the Chernobyl site's radiation level is currently safe.

In the exclusion zone, however, there are some radiation hotspots which Chernobyl's managers blame on the Russian military activity, as troops dug trenches and their vehicles churned up dust.

Yevhen Kramarenko, head of the exclusion zone agency, said thousands of Russian vehicles including tanks had driven through the zone. He said Russia had based more than 1,000 soldiers at Chernobyl.

I can see why the Ukrainians refer to them as "Orcs".

Strazdas

Looks like the Ukrainians have taken possession of around 50% of Severodonetsk according to latest social media reports tonight. Things definitely not going quite the way the Russians planned - their media assumed up until yesterday the city was about to fall to Russian forces at any moment.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119126931#Comment_119126931

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119125578#Comment_119125578

Perfectly illustrated. A typical "rope a dope" maneuvre. The flipper-clapping circus seals on here would be the same if Mohammed Ali was in a corner, hands in front of face taking hits by someone. They'd be squealing "See, he's nothing...he's nobody" Completely clueless to the decoy.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119144746#Comment_119144746

And what about all the other products that many countries are reliant on Russia for. I'll give you an example...fertilizer. Without it crops will not grow. Or are you going to talk and talk more sh1t until you can spread manure all over the farms of Europe and Africa?

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154970#Comment_119154970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119154970#Comment_119154970

Oh for FFS don't insult my intelligence. You bleat about democracy and the "status quo". The STATUS QUO was to lend recognition to an externally fomented coup d'etat that toppled the Yanukovich government. Now before you get all cock-a-hoop about him...he was DEMOCRATICALLY elected. His overthrowal was a COUP. In his place were installed bought and paid for thugs like Yatsenyuk. After spending 5 Billion to orchestrate this coup d'etat, Victoria Nuland ("FCK The EU was her charming quote) was handing out chocolate bars to people in Kiev as her mates were slathering at the mouth thinking about turning over Ukraine's farms to Monsanto.

The support for the Kiev regime post-2014 sank to 9%. It's takes talent to be that fcuking despised. And you whine that the status quo wasn't part of the referendum deal when most of the electorate didn't even recognise the status quo.

As for your quip about a referendum "under arms".....outside of the anecdotes you want to believe about nobody being allowed to vote unless they gave a blowjob to an AK47 do you have a shred of evidence to corroborate your assertion or is it again just a case of "well I heard it and I like it"?

Get on a plane and take a holiday. Get away from all this. Take 10 days and fly to the beaches of Crimea and spend some time on the delightful Black Sea resorts. Get drunk, get laid, get a tan, and then come back after you've spoken to the population who are living under a brutal occupation. Smuggle your camera-phone to the cafes and gather some fotage of the locals who can't move without a little green man kicking over the table and asking them for their papers.

Send a postcard.