How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

tails_naf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004497#Comment_120004497

I switched to an EV in 2019. Back then I was paying 12 euro a day to commute (diesel passat), and it dropped to 2.70 a day to charge at home on night rate.

Today that diesel cost would be at least 15 euro (maybe 18 euro?) , and as nightrate has trippled, its 8.10 for the EV. If I was on day rate it would be about 16 euro.

Some smaller EVs get better kwh/km, so the EV numbers can look better than mine. Night rate makes a big difference.

Gusser09

Certa probably cheapest here in kildare. By a fair few cent too. They dont seel coffees either or pastries so the argument of fuel being low profit is bollix.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009379#Comment_120009379

But how much does it now cost to cook a pot of spuds at 6pm compared to before? Night rate is grand if you don't need electricity during the late afternoon or evening.

tails_naf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009451#Comment_120009451

Yep, it'd 48c vs 44c, so losing there. I've solar PV so in the summer I don't buy day units. In winter we leave heavy stuff like dishwasher, dryer, etc to night. So about 2 to 1 night vs day units, so still ahead by a fair bit I'd say.

wotzgoingon

You could also get a gas oven and hob if you were really getting screwed by cooking a dinner with and electric hod and oven.

wotzgoingon

Twice now I've been ripped off by Certa. They must be really slow at updating the prices in my nearest. I was looking on pumps and pumphunt and the prices from 1.529-1.6, well not really ripped off but I could have got an extra litre of fuel each time if they were quicker at updating the prices. I made the drive in and was a bit low so just filled her up. And also diesel was cheaper there than petrol too by a cent.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009379#Comment_120009379

I think the issue people have with over zealous pushing of EVs is that the initial purchase price outweighs any savings. Was your passat fully paid off before you switched? If so, it's hard to see how switching to an EV was a true financial saving. You're saving €7 per day commuting. If you travel to work 5 days per week for 48 weeks per year that equates to a yearly saving of €1700. Add in reduced motor tax and servicing costs and you might see a yearly saving of €2500. That's great but if your passat had no finance owing then the EV would have had to been damn cheap in terms of purchase cost for it to have made financial sense.

I think EVs are the future but few can justify buying one if their current car is finance free and running OK. It only makes sense if one needs to switch car anyway.

tails_naf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120012704#Comment_120012704

The passant was going to start costing me money, milage was high, big jobs needed doing. It was worth about 3k when I sold it. I needed a change, and doing the sums, sure I'd save 2.5k a year, but if I keep it for 5 years plus, which I usually do, that goes a long way to covering the premium for EV. After having switched I'd never go back. I Iove the instant peformance, never having to go to a service station, and being a bit greener isn't a bad think either.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120012867#Comment_120012867

Makes perfect sense in that scenario. There are others who would have you believe that owning an EV is a license to print money. It only makes sense if you need to change cars anyway.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013051#Comment_120013051

Absolutely, nothing will compare with keeping your current car, or even a modest well priced 2nd hand car.

But comparing new to new, there is absolutely no contest on total cost of ownership calculation. The only reason I can see to buy a new ICE is if a) you can't home charge or b) have a very very regular need to do >250km journeys with limited stops (and don't have a 2nd car that could step in there).

But even then, I'd argue you should buy 2nd hand ICE and save the money in those scenarios.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009439#Comment_120009439

Can you elaborate as there are hundreds of garage owners that would love to know where the big profits you suggest are.

Many Certa garages are one trick ponies - they are fully automated. No staff / security / driveaways / shop costs etc. and they don't take cash

They are the same company as Great Gas & EMO who do have shops, staff costs, retail costs, driveaway thefts etc. Also the same company as Flogas They also trade as Gulf & Pace in the UK, ESSO in France, QStar in Sweden and several other brands in many other countries. And they are Irish too.

As they have stripped most of the retail costs out, they can be (and should be) cheaper.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120012704#Comment_120012704

This.

It’s a false economy if you have no debt on your car and then buy a 30k EV On finance/loan to save money.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019517#Comment_120019517

As a customer in makes no odds to me how they achieve their prices. Fuel is extremely profitable indirectly to a garage. 9 euro I paid for a Coffee, Sandwich and bottle of water recently. No it was my choice to pay it but there is profit in the for the garages. I went in for diesel and came out with that.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021338#Comment_120021338

Exactly - they made a far better profit on the €9 coffee, sandwich & water that your probably 40 litres of fuel.

Garages HATE high fuel prices because it means less people going in and buying the coffees and sandwiches.

Applegreen said that coffee was their most profitable product and produced far more profit that all fuel sales combined.

The fuel itself has miniscule margins

flexcon

It's well known that on average, an independent retailer will make margins of 11c, and profit 5-6c per litre. So if you fill up your 45 litre tank of a car it's €2.70 profit for the garage. you can make more profit on a cup of coffee

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022175#Comment_120022175

Its quite a bit lower than that - possibly you are using vat inclusive figures.

7-8c is considered the norm for competitive stations.

mikeecho

Lower base fuel prices, also means that they can make more per L.

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022238#Comment_120022238

Might have changed slightly but I had a shared investment in a garage years ago and this are figures I remember back then. More profit in a chicken roll !

harmless

Why is everyone so fixated at prices at the pump? Of course everyone wants to get the best value fuel for their car. But oil prices are linked to so many things there are bigger saving to be made for those who are not just staring at the big sign over the forecourt.

I know this is the motors forum so it makes sense here but even people who have no interest in cars are not looking at the bigger picture.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023700#Comment_120023700

Some people live on pcp cars.

Some MUST change the car before it's 4yrs old, cos it's due an NCT.

Some bought diesels in 2008+ because of cheap tax, even though it didn't make sense.

Some bought EVs even though it doesn't make sense for them

Some bought ice, even though an EV is a better option for them

Some want to keep their ice

It takes all sorts

And amongst those all sorts is a Berty Bassett.

In my household, we have 2 diesels, 1 petrol and a petrol m/bike.

All paid off, nothing owed.

If we needed to change in the morning, probably get another ice

In 5 yrs time, .. then we'll start looking at EV.

harmless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023804#Comment_120023804

I get you and agree, it's just the fixation on the cost of car fuel above everything else in life that is linked to oil price that I don't get.

100 dollar a barrel for oil is on the way back, just a matter of how quickly.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/100-Oil-To-Return-In-2023.html

Well now we know what the Russian response is

BBC News - Russia bans oil sales to countries using price cap

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64102180

wotzgoingon

If I was running this country I'd still buy off them. They have no problem buying at dear prices off the head choppers(Saudi's).

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039410#Comment_120039410

People will complain about Russian oil, but they will still get the cheapest fuel locally without giving a shhhit about where it comes from Russian or otherwise .

tibia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021383#Comment_120021383

Interesting. I keep an eye on the prices as I drive around. Some garages are always dearer than the rest, maybe up to 15c per litre dearer. I wonder if some garages are charged a higher rate by their supplier? Otherwise, if the cheap garage is making 5c per litre, the expensive one is making 20c per litre. On a 50L tank that's €10 which I think is a bit much. If I go to the cheaper crowd I could save €7.50 on the tankful which is effectively another 4 litres free! Nearly 100km of driving! Thank you!

John arse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120044854#Comment_120044854

What,no coffee and a Sandwich?

Larbre34

All fuel prices are falling. More than likely higher prices between local stations are due to older stock. They will all fall away soon enough.

As for Russian imports, they should have been banned much sooner, I'm far more satisfied that they have been taken out of the system. I completely agree about Saudi too. As a society, Europe has been far too lax about weaning off the supply from despotic ME nations.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120044854#Comment_120044854

I've never seen a 15c difference except when refining prices were exceptionally volatile last March and also in June and refining was increasing on an hourly basis.

Maybe you are looking at these rip-off "premium" fuels where an additive that costs about 2c is an excuse to hike the price 7c and does feck all to fuel efficiency in real world conditions.

Yes garages are charged different prices just like any other business and the delivery cost to the garage (circa €300) is the same whether they buy 10,000L or 100,000L.

Refining margins are up over $50 again for diesel, so hard to see any prices stay under 1.70 and many will be 1.75+. Petrol will stay reasonably steady

walterking

I see some third rate "journalist" in the Indo is saying that there's a 5c-6c pump increase coming due to an increase in biofuel mix

What a load of bullsh1t

Her "source" is a farmer because some bloke said so to him.

This is how bad journalism is these days and as it's one of the most read stories, thousands of people will now be mis-informed and believe this sh1te. Worse is some people actually pay for this crap from the Indo

Yes pump price for diesel will be increasing because refining margins have jumped $14 in the past 10 days and this is feeding into the pumps.

The biofuel change will add less than half a cent.

Pity the journalist didn't do any actual fact checking. But that's par for the course these days at the Indo.