How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

bazz26

Why are some folks being over dramatic about having to go to a filling station? Was it a day out for some? I spend about 5 or 10 mins max at a filling station every 2 weeks, no weekly shopping there or social occassion for me. I think some just like to portray pumping fuel into their car as some sort of arcade inconvience on their busy life. If an EV suits you then fine but taking about the freedom of not having to spend 5 or 10 mins in a filling station is seriously daft.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181231#Comment_119181231

stuck me as high at first (i.e. the 60km sounded high, rather than the 80%) but thinking about it, the average car does something like 15-20k per year, and that's an average of over 40km per day for the lower figure.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181466#Comment_119181466

The trump card electric cars have though is your can fill up at your house at any time usually at night when not in use - now how many of us have diesel or petrol tanks at our homes? Very few.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181719#Comment_119181719

Yeah once your doing that kind of mileage and don’t need the range plus qualify for the loan it works.

Based off of 20k kms (1666kms PM) the numbers don’t stack up. That would be two fills of diesel per month. With a 70L tank @€2 per L that €140x 2= €280.

@€3 it’s €210 x2= €420.

Repayments at €450 a month leave you worse off before you factor in the cost of charging however you gain on cheaper road tax and servicing.

It’s a loss for the EV at 20k kms and marginal win at 30k kms.

This all changes when diesel gets closer to €3 per litre though!!

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181541#Comment_119181541

If they're the kind of person who was looking to get a €25k loan for a new car then they probably don't have a problem getting a loan for an EV at €30k.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181331#Comment_119181331

Not sure about you, but I found the costs of keeping our 10 year old debt free car on the road to be quite significant. We were averaging about €1,500 a year on unplanned maintenance costs. It was the real reason we looked to switch to a new car and pick up one with a 5 year warranty. When we compared the cost of the new BEV versus a similarly spec ICEV the extra cost for a comparable car was around 5k, we definitely saved more than that in fuel cost over the 5 years we've owned it.

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181754#Comment_119181754

You were right the first time.

6L per 100km means 1200 litres to do 20k km. €2 per litre means €2400 on fuel, over 5 months is €480

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181726#Comment_119181726

It's usually ice drivers that bring it up. Anyway if it doesn't bother you thats fine.

But when you get used to never having to go, it becomes a pain in the hole whenever you do have to!

Bigmac1euro

Bought a leaf for my other half back in October last year. Best decision I ever made.

Just sold my petrol avensis the other day as I had completely stopped driving it, it actually became an eyesore in the drive way. I couldn’t face taxing it. I couldn’t face paying for spiralling petrol costs. I couldn’t face paying the higher tolls. I couldn’t face having no torque :(I let her rot which she didn’t deserve. But it was pointless driving it after I bought the leaf. I didn’t actually want to sell until my partner reminded me how many times I drove it in the last 6 months which was less than 10. Bringing the dog to the park.

Admittedly the furthest I’ll drive in leaf would be Dublin to Mullingar which I can do in the leaf safely and plug it in. I’m happy all around. Best 8k I ever spent. If you don’t need to do long journeys id advise going EV.

Plenty of my friends have pointed out the flaws of EV’s which is fine but what’s annoying is every single one of them would suit the lifestyle as they don’t leave Dublin.

Maybe some day they’ll see the light. I’ve also saved a bomb on tolls which is something you’d nearly forget about.

bazz26

Ah sure you could argue the same for having to plug a cable from your car into the wall everytime you need to charge it. It's straw grasping stuff imo.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181855#Comment_119181855

Don't be fooled. The reduced tolls are only temporary, as is the reduced tax and vrt rebate.

Once we get to a certain equilibrium ice / electric the subsidy gap will narrow and we will get similar toll costs and road tax potentially higher for electric cars to pay for all the oil they use for power anyway.

Gant21

I can see the battery change technology coming into play, where you drive into this facility and the car auto reverses and does a battery change I think in under 10 minutes.

Fifth gear did a slot on it.

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181714#Comment_119181714

Ok, literally the only new car I could afford was an EV purely because it's so much cheaper to run.

In fact IMO EVs could mean more people could afford a new car that couldn't otherwise. The whole "only for well off people" is pure crap.

Ok so they're mined out of the ground, just like all cars then. Just think what oil goes through to get to your tank vs electricity.

Here's something for anyone genuinely interested.

https://youtu.be/mk-LnUYEXuM

No doubt some here will just resort to "green aganda" or "virture signalling".

Whatever about environmental concerns or figures I don't really care. If anyone takes anything from the above video just look at the steps involved in getting fuel in your tank.

Simple physics, every step is a loss in efficiency, sometimes significant. All just to burn in a car at max 35-40% efficiency.

Like I said I don't really care. I got a new car for fcuk all difference.

All the diesel diehards. Good work, keep it up and keep my subsidies going.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181876#Comment_119181876

Is this the idea of a removable battery? If so, I can't see that ever happening. A 'traditional' charging point for a car is not much more than a fancy cable, using an existing electricity distribution network. The idea that car manufacturers would invest in a massive change to how cars are constructed, and that simultaneously there would be a massive investment in a new technology of these 'filling stations' and see demand only very slowly start to accumulate, is a non runner.

Bigmac1euro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181872#Comment_119181872

yeah I get that but for every day they don’t increase the tolls and tax I save money. I’ll have saved the money I paid on the Leaf in about 4 years what I would have put in the Avensis. I reckon anyway but can never be certain with price fluctuating and job changes/miles driven etc etc.

Insurance dropped for me as well because the avensis was pretty old 2004.

bazz26

Lol, EV youtuber making a negative video about ICE cars, real shocker that.

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181914#Comment_119181914

Yep, the exact reply I was expecting.

Keep buying diesel, keep my tax breaks going. Thanks

bazz26

And the video you posted was typical of what I was expecting from an ev fanboi. Same as the big drama about having to spend 5 mins at a filling station, a weak and desperate argument imo for one over the other. BTW I thought you said you didn't care?

As for tax breaks, enjoy them but I wouldn't get too used to them or rely on them in the ong term. Plus I'm happy to keep buying diesel fuel for my current car, trumps the alternative of spending 30k on a Nissan Leaf. 😁

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181967#Comment_119181967

I don't care, but the arguments against them are complete boll0x.

Once you're happy, keep it up.

kuro2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181967#Comment_119181967

I doubt many people are happy to be buying diesel at current prices but I guess you will always have at least one

IMO any one that buys a new petrol or diesel car today is mad, nobody is expecting a person to spend 30k on a new bev car to save on fuel costs short term.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181924#Comment_119181924

You seem to have an awful chip on your shoulder.

Nobody is disbputing a new ev is a better buy than a new ice at the moment. You seem to be forgetting your 23% vat payment and other charges though, which is hardly a subsidy. And an ev will trickle down to replace an ice at some point so the subsidy me vrs down the chain.

Your YouTube video looks nice but it ignores that the lithium is mined using oil, then driven by diesel trains to ships which haul it around the world using oil. Not to mention batteries then shipped here and there using oil.

Its processed somewhere using oil too.

I'll probably by an electric car soon but I am not looking at this and trying to score cheap points in the them v us way you do.

teediddlyeye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181996#Comment_119181996

Nah I'm just allergic to boll0x

Yep they'll trickle down alright, and with 5k off new there'll be more bought to trickle down so all good.

Yeah they use a lot of oil to make, once they're made it stops mostly (or completely) unlike ice.

If you wanna buy one soon and it suits you go for it.

fm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182011#Comment_119182011

But only around 40% of electricity in Ireland is renewable at the moment

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182177#Comment_119182177

While true the situation is changing with GW's of additional renewable power already approved and more on the way. By 2030 we'll have double the amount of renewable energy generation and the plan is to have 100% by 2050 with the 2030-2050 challenge being large scale energy storage (batteries, green hydrogen, pumped storage etc)

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119181754#Comment_119181754

When diesel gets that high, inflation and interest rates rise, and goodbye loan.

Financial engineering cannot overcome the physical reality: oil is cheap to store, electricity is not.

Forcing a civilisation into using the latter makes it poorer.

harr

The big problem is the cost of setting up chargers in current smaller petrol stations for some it could run into huge money as the Electric infrastructure isn’t suitable for installation for chargers especially fast chargers. Currently in our town we have two chargers one in train station which is always busy and one slow one in a forecourt just outside of the town. Surely the government court have some scheme to help smaller business set up chargers.

Other factor around here recently is nearly all new houses have no proper driveway all new houses now should wall charging as standard.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182196#Comment_119182196

We are talking about the situation today though. We can't really be sure how successful renewables will be by 2050. Its not that far away.

At what point will all existing turbines (that are already say 15 years old) be obsolete and need to be replaced using heavy machinery and ships powered by oil and coal?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182295#Comment_119182295

The govt are investing into a wider charging network, see below from last year

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/5da6c-minister-ryan-announces-funding-approval-for-on-street-charge-points-for-electric-vehicles/

There is also a multi-year strategy underway

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/220099/2ee020ea-99a6-439e-851b-48d0b410e746.pdf#page=null

A number of initiatives are already underway

6.2.1 EV Home Charge Point Grant Scheme

Established in 2018 and administered by the SEAI, this grant provides up to €600 towards the installation cost of a domestic charge point.

6.2.2 Public Charge Point Scheme

This scheme, which is administered by the SEAI, has been in place since September 2019, providing local authorities with a grant of up to €5,000 per charge point to support the development of on-street public charge points.

6.2.3 eSPSV Infrastructure Scheme

The eSPSV infrastructure scheme was designed to encourage more taxi drivers to convert to electric vehicles. The project involves installing taxi dedicated electric vehicle charge points at major transport hubs nationwide, where multiple transport modes, including road, rail, light-rail and air travel networks intersect.

6.2.4 Climate Action Fund EV infrastructure delivery

In 2018, €10 million was committed from the Climate Action Fund to support ESB investment in the charging network and this has leveraged a further €10 million investment from ESB. This intervention will result in:

• 90 additional high-power charge points, each capable of charging two vehicles;
• 52 additional fast charge points, which may replace existing standard charge points; and
• 264 replacement standard charge points, with more modern technology and with each consisting of two charge points.

6.2.5 FASTER project

The FASTER project is an international joint initiative that aims to support the installation of 50kW capacity in 73 EV charging stations on the island of Ireland and in Scotland. The project, which is a partnership between regional and local authorities and academic institutions in all three jurisdictions, has been awarded over €6.4 million from the European Union’s INTERREG VA Programme.

The Ireland-specific part of the project aims to fund up to 40 fast charge points in various locations on both sides of the Border with a target date for delivery of May 2023.

New initiatives include

6.3.1 Home Charging

6.3.2 Shared Residence Charging Scheme (apartments etc)

6.3.3 Local Authority Public Charge Point Scheme to become Residential Charging Scheme

6.3.4 Destination Charge Point Scheme

There are also proposals to change planning requirements for all new builds to include the required electrical infrastructure by default. In addition a "right to instal" for renters and existing apartment owners and lastly a process for community groups/residence associations to install group charging points.

As the saying goes, a lot done, more to do. We're not there yet, but I'm guessing by 2025/2026 we'll be at a point where the car/charging point ratio will rapidly start dropping.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182365#Comment_119182365

Nobody is disputing the move to electric cars is relentless but what's the point?

They will still be mined out of the ground using fossil fuels.

They will still be shipped around the world using fossil fuels.

Houses will still be built using fossil fuels.

People will still be flying to the sun using fossil fuels.

It was reported earlier in the thread that it's only after 200000kms that an electric car is better for the environment.

I mean what will it achieve really?

Gant21

Eamonn Ryan needs to wake up and stop smoking turf.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182628#Comment_119182628

People only buy them to save money.

They don't really care about the fact it's much more environmentally friendly to keep driving their existing diesel.

Capitalism at its best.