Auschwitz was liberated 77 years ago

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545514#Comment_118545514

Because it can be seen to absolutely trivialise the great evils of this man and to make it into a laughing matter. He is not some pantomime baddy. He is responsible for destroying so many lives and hope.

In the same way that certain words should not be used now because of their historical connotations, certain images of Hitler should not (in my opinion) be used for a laugh and to show how risky one is

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545514#Comment_118545514

fair enough, but i suggest you have the issue then and not us as i find it very offensive and idiotic personally, of all the things to pick, and to then claim it's his edgy humour.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545414#Comment_118545414

Even if they knew, I'm not sure what you would have expected them to actually do at the time. The Wermacht at the time still hadn't been turned back by the Russians and the British and Americans were still in North Africa. There was little that the Allies could have done to stop the deportations and murders when they couldn't get anywhere occupied Europe, never mind near these camps.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545528#Comment_118545528

Now, you can make the lazy argument that “oh they are stifling my freedom of speech” without actually engaging in a meaningful discussion and trying to hear it from another perspective.

There is no validity to what I am saying. I am just a hysterical virtue signaller. Conversation over! Hypocrisy much?

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545534#Comment_118545534

My issue? I just find it interesting that you immediately tried to discredit the poster just because they had a different opinion to you (and they explained their reasoning quite well).

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545455#Comment_118545455

I was berated by a history teacher for suggesting the allies knew before they first encountered the camps...and this was in the early 00's

The moral grand standing from the allies(to this day) about how morally superior they were to the axis forces...while ignoring the halocaust, dripping the bomb twice & giving safe haven to known Nazi scientists (NASA would be nothing without the Nazi's)

Just to be clear I in no way support what the axis forces did, but I just find the selective amesia about the horridly carry on from the allies is a tad ironic

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544487#Comment_118544487

We should never forget that Communism resulted in the murder of many more millions than the Nazis managed.

Nazism and Communism should be reviled by all right thinking people.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545574#Comment_118545574

The use of a Hitler avatar in a solemn discussion about the Holocaust is what we find offensive

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545588#Comment_118545588

I don’t think you’d see it as an issue if the poster had agreed with you. But anyway, we are derailing the thread.

jolivmmx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545580#Comment_118545580

All that really matters is that we remember all those poor victims who met a horrendous demise and take those lessons forward with us.

May history never be repeated!

Hellrazer

To be honest I dont think this is the thread to discuss someones avatar - Im here since 2002 and as far as I can remember the user has had the same avatar since they joined.

Do we ban mentioning of the holocaust completely? Do we ban Fawlty Towers? Father Ted?

Its disgusting what happened and any normal human in their right mind knows that but having an avatar / watching fawlty towers or Father Ted deosnt make you as bad as the people that carried these atrocities out.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545455#Comment_118545455

Auschwitz was only one of many death camps. A lot of 1000 bomber raids would have been needed. And seeing as even the Americans with the daylight bombing and their Norden bombsight could be miles off target, the odds are they'd have killed thousands of Jews, but not actually stopped the murder. The Nazis were able to get factories and rail yards back in operations in weeks. This would have been no different.

Mecanudo

There is a plenty of evidence that the Nazis went to great lengths to try and hide what happened.

In Treblinka the concentration camp was actually demolished before the end of the War and a "farm house" was built on the site in an effort to cover up nazi atrocities

It wasn't until recent years that the mass graves there were found, but the remains will never be excavated as that would be a violation of Jewish law and tradition which bans the exhumation of the dead

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16657363.amp

A lovely way of remembering the dead, is the the traditional practice by those of the Jewish faith who leave small stones on the graves of those who have died.

I think today would a good day to do something akin to that by simply remembering all those killed during that time because of the realities of intolerance and hate.

thefallingman

It makes you emotionally insensitive and intentionally provocative, do you think black facing is ok too ?

Cyclingtourist

Auschwitz was 'liberated' by the Red Army which was the army of the Soviet Union, a state that practiced murder on a comparable scale.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544774#Comment_118544774

As others have said, it's not unmarked. It's lightly signposted, and there's a plaque and an architectural map beside it.

Also, a key thing regarding the bunker is that it wasn't the Germans who destroyed it - The Soviets bombarded it in April 1945, and then dismantled what remained of the exterior around 1948. The East German government in the 1950s (we can debate whether they were under instruction from Moscow) then destroyed the interior/underground portions.

As to whether too much got destroyed that should have remained standing, I think we have to bear a couple of things in mind. a) Berlin was absolutely destroyed. Re-building was easier if you started with a blank canvas. The excellent 3-part BBC4 documentary 'Berlin May 1945, Diary of a Metropolis' gives an idea of just how fubared the city was. b) There would have been a fear in the 1940s/1950s that the Nazis could probably return. We know with hindsight this was never really a possibility. Destroying what remained of their creations was likely considered a positive move at the time.

CrookedJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545551#Comment_118545551

Maybe you should reread my post, or perhaps you quoted the wrong one, because your replying to points I never made and parroting my own point back to me. It really does not make any sense.

How is criticising someone for their avatar simply because they disagree with a point made earlier trying to have a meaningful discussion? You haven't even tried to discuss their point. If you want a discussion you'd actually the topic, not invent faux outrage to discredit people.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545675#Comment_118545675

I'd agree with you in the most part. Though it's certainly nothing to do with mentionioning or discussing the holocaust. No one has an issue with that to be fair. Interestingly in Germany the public display of images of Hitler is banned. The poster maybe is trying to be ironic as he has said he lives there. But yes I could see how some may find the use of specific avatar in this context problematic.

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545840#Comment_118545840

good point and fair enough, personally i just think it deserved more than being lightly signposted with a plaque but to be fair i didn't know that was there so i take your well made point.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545750#Comment_118545750

It could be argued that your avatar has killed more people throughout history than Hitler ever did.

thefallingman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545901#Comment_118545901

Not really the same is it Oisin, like there was no gassing people to death in their millions, or ripping babies apart in front of their parents, no skinning bodies to make furniture. Perhaps you just have the same edgy humour as your friend here.

Ten of Swords

Mod - drop the discussion about avatars please, it's off topic

Theres a couple of posters here who'd want to rein it in a bit, you know who you are. Keep posting the way you've been posting and you'll be threadbanned. No personal digs please

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544487#Comment_118544487

And don't forget what the far left did either - Stalin, Pol Pot etc.

Extremes at both ends are equally as bad as each other. The Hitchcock documentary was one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen, to watch a visual record like that really makes it hit home how depraved it was.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544729#Comment_118544729

I have only read or heard about how after the war Germany had immense shame of the holocaust, and did not bury their head in the sand. Rather they were instrumental on setting up the EEC so that the fascist movements , that gained traction after the Wall Street crash of 1929 would never come to power again. Oswald Mosley had support in Britain for his Facist party.

o1s1n

On the topic of World War 2 horrors, have folks seen the Russian film 'Come and See'? A really hard watch but one of the best war films ever IMO. It focuses on the German occupation of Belarus and the horrors they inflicted on villages while they were there.

Would put it up there beside Schlinder's List in the 'films about WW2 you'll have a hard time watching but really should watch' category.

NickNickleby

Yesterday Channel do some interesting programmes about WW2. I've stopped watching them because I'm at risk of becoming desensitised. I can no longer look at scenes of families with little children on the platform after getting off the train. Dead within the hour. Or off to the mad scientists for a never ending death. I couldn't visit any of these places, I imagine I'd buckle on the spot.

I know a German woman, and the war is never mentioned. One time in a group chat, I said how the horrors of that time cannot be laid at the door of the present generation, but her demeanour seemed to suggest that her generation would carry the 'burden' of it as a reminder of what CAN happen. I can't remember exactly what she said, but that was pretty much the gist of it.

thefallingman

Interesting post Thomil and educational thanks for posting (i won't quote it's too big!)

Cyclingtourist

It's often overlooked that for almost the first two years of WW2 Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union collaborated together and this included both security services (Gestapo & NKVD) exchanging information. While the ideologies were different the outcomes were similar for any Poles perceived as enemies of their respective regimes.

It's also overlooked that the number of Poles who perished was pretty equal between Jews and non-Jews although of course the proportion of the Jewish community was much higher.

It's in this context that the liberation of Auschwitz by the Soviet forces should be viewed.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545989#Comment_118545989

One of the reasons the Red Army behaved so appallingly in Germany in 1945 (the mass rapes and murders etc) is because the Germans themselves had behaved with absolute savagery for the previous four years.

Also, the Nazi refusal to surrender on the Eastern Front and to fight the Russians to the last bullet (as they believed them to be 'subhuman') cost millions of German lives. Had they surrendered to the Allies a lot earlier (say January 1945), much of the carnage and destruction and atrocities could have been avoided.

It was a fanatical and extremely evil regime though and didn't do surrender.

Liam O

I was there in September last. It was a nice day weather wise and yet you couldn't get away from just how terrible it would be to be there. You almost feel like the people who were immediately led to the gas chambers were saved a lot of suffering which is a really messed up conclusion to come to.

The overriding feeling was both "Why?" and then if you can come to the end of that "How?". Walking around the Auschwitz camp which was there before as a barracks so was reasonably well designed and looking at pictures initially it doesn't hit you. It's not long until you are in the hair room, standing cells and the gas chamber in the main camp and it really chips away at you but it's difficult to comprehend the scale of it while there.

You then hop on the shuttle to Birkenau and to be honest, the sheer size of that was the most shocking thing about the entire tour. Literal miles long and you can't even see half of it. Building barracks after barracks just because they needed time for the crematorium to get through the people who'd been gassed. At one point I found myself reading a placard beside a destroyed chamber and the guide said that I was standing on the ashes of approximately 150,000 people.

As someone who is reasonably interested in history and was aware of a lot of these things taking place it still punched me in the gut.