How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046080#Comment_119046080

There is nothing I can read on that which days support for monarchy is plummeting among young people?

quite the contrary. I read remarkably positive news in that. Far more young people want the monarchy than a republic (and this survey was done in the midst of an all time low point for the Royal family with the Andrew scandal)

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049481#Comment_119049481

Source?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049542#Comment_119049542

Not sure what you are asking for a source on. I was referring to the above link. I am wondering what stats you are comparing these to that demonstrates that young people today are less supportive of the monarchy than young people a decade or two ago?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049221#Comment_119049221

I would say nearly every country in the world had to increase spending for covid, all whilst revenues were down.

It is yet another debt that someday is going to come home to roost.

Some of the Ukrainian spend is I think coming from the Brexit money?

Added to that the EU will probably allow spending on Ukrainian refugees.

You can't keep on increasing your borrowings, well most countries can't anyway.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050102#Comment_119050102

There is no Brexit money. There never was. Brexit is a net loss.

You are correct, though. The EU is unlikely to magic the billions of Euro necessary to subsidise NI for several years. Frankly, I've no idea why Sunak doesn't openly just call for a referendum to reunify Ireland. It'd look progressive and ditch a serious fiscal burden the boundaries of which virtually nobody in GB knows.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049221#Comment_119049221

Yes people were mocking SF for their "magic money tree" in February 2020 then the next second accepted huge spending, essentially putting most of the economy on ice with subsidies, without blinking.

It is very robotic.

MMT is an Establishment tool which, because it was initially presented in the media through a partisan angle, some slow learners regard as "left-wing".

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050128#Comment_119050128

I thought there was supposedly a couple of billion put aside by ROI, no doubt borrowed anyway, to cope with Brexit?

There is no way a Tory can afford to try ditch NI at the moment.

There is the old diehard Tories who still think of Britian's glory days.

It is one thing giving up on far off islands the other side of the pond, but not on a chunk of land next door.

The right wing tories have grown in influence over the last decade.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050252#Comment_119050252

The last time I checked, NI's subsidy was almost £20 billion. It's a bit of a mess though as much of this is military spending which would be either nullified as a result of the UK leaving or severely reduced depending on the levels of violence which may or may not appear. There are also things like public sector pensions that the UK will be liable for.

That said, a billion or two of covid money won't last long at all if even a tenth of that subsidy is required.

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050102#Comment_119050102

We've been told often enough that you can't keep on borrowing to sort out housing crisis when there were zero interest rates and which would have been an investment in the country's future. No problem finding the money to prop up the economy though! I think that kind of thinking is going a bit too its only 'the economy stupid' - to hell with the people.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119050128#Comment_119050128

Part of the reason is that the place would be destabilised. Remember, the place isn't that long away from the madness and evil of the PIRA terrorist campaign.

Imagine a border poll that was defeated by a margin of 60:40, cue unrest among both sides and a bigger bill for the rest of the UK.

Better to keep paying a smaller bill.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039761#Comment_119039761

Do you not think there's room to improve? Or, tbf, are you basing that on current and previous FF/FG governments?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045169#Comment_119045169

Very offensive I’ll-informed patronising stuff. Says it all really

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051390#Comment_119051390

Yeah. Just seen this posted by Arlene. This is the stuff that many posters on here either deny happened or claim the were isolated rogue attacks. My small predominantly republican town had many Protestant owned shops bombed x3 or x4 times by the ira while not one single catholic owned shop was ever touched. Coincidence my xrse.

there can be little hope of moving forward to integration until republics own up to their terrible sectarianism.

and of course the Uvf etc done this in Protestant areas but I think most people acknowledge that

https://twitter.com/onthisdaypira/status/1524526219005509635?s=21

Junkyard Tom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119053210#Comment_119053210

We won't be asking for your permission to unite our country and govern the north in preparation, those days are gone along with your rotten orange statelet.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119053129#Comment_119053129

My remarks are entirely correct and are based on my experience as an Ulster Unionist.

Honestly, I think Arlene Foster deserves a statue somewhere in central Dublin. She's done more for Irish unity than anyone since Michael Collins.

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119053210#Comment_119053210

This is more of the victimhood of Unionists, always condemning one side while honouring the killers of bloody sunday, ballymurphy masssacre, etc. In a few months people who claim to be "honourable" will set fire to our national flag and claim it's their culture. Total scumbag behaviour. As I have said in the past if you attend a 12th bonfire or parade and don't speak out against it, you're just as bad as the scum who put our flag to burn

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119053210#Comment_119053210

At a guess I'd say the reason that man was killed by the IRA was because he was a Justice of the Peace and so seen as a legitimate target of the IRA, just like RUC and British Army. If he was a RC Justice of the Peace, he probably would have been killed as well.

I presume that there will be little chance of Unionists acknowledgeing that the IRA didn't target protestants, they targetted representatives of the British State like RUC, British Army. All you are doing is trying to hide your own sectarianism by claiming that these people were attacked because they were protestant.

Edit: If you read the article, this man had kept his shop open in defiance of the loyalist strike and the IRA said they didn't do it. Loyalists were well capable of killing this man knowing the IRA would get the blame.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119054754#Comment_119054754

More I’ll-informed nonsense.

I don’t know anyone who honours the ballymurphy killers.

i see little to condemn at the 12th July. I haven’t been to an 11th night fire in years - getting to old for that.

you pick isolates incidents and try to make them stick on everything.

I completely condemn the sectarian campaign of the Uvf. Can you say exactly the same about the IRA? Your silence or avoidance will be telly

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055445#Comment_119055445

Everyone should read the post from jm08 several times. It is illuminating.

here is the problem in a nutshell. Many nationalists cannot accept that the ira carried out a sectarian campaign.

he first try’s to find a reason why he could claim this crime was not sectarian. Then he suggests that in an area where Protestants were under serious pressure and intimidation from the IRA, that the prods went out and killed one of their own after bombing his shop 4 times. Is the any nationalist on here who is prepared to call this man out for his blinkered prejudice???

To suggest the Ira were not sectarian is absurd.

Let me be very clear again (just as an example). In my town every single, YES EVERY ONE, Protestant shop (and several homes) were blown up by the IRA, and any that reopened were bombed again and again. Not one single catholic shop was ever touched by the IRA (or anyone else).

so dance all you like. The evidence is crystal clear

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055504#Comment_119055504

Do you not think that if the primary event of a given culture involves rubbing in the noses of everyone else a battle from years ago, then said culture is probably at best vacuous and pointless? How many of these people even know who John Churchill was?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055598#Comment_119055598

The IRA killed Catholics who didn't conform, why would it be impossible that Loyalists killed their own too? Plenty of other examples of Loyalists killing their own is there not?

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055646#Comment_119055646

The area around the site of the Battle of the Boyne is well sign posted and is a tourist attraction.The area William set sail from in Hoylake is named after him and has many visitors,so why only single out one group?

jm08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055598#Comment_119055598

I actually read the newspaper report which said that a) the IRA claimed it wasn't them and b) it also says that he may have been killed by loyalists because he broke the loyalist strike.

Why did you not mention these facts. Was anyone charged for his murder? And if not, why not.

You continually claim that these murders are sectarian involving innocent civilians when most of the time these 'civilians' were members of the British security forces who (rightly or wrongly) were considered to be legitimate targets by the IRA and other paramilitary groups.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055801#Comment_119055801

Why would I single out the sole group so stupid as to try to destroy the GFA without even seeking some benefit?

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055646#Comment_119055646

So I take it you think there should be no events to remember the world wars. And if Ukraine manage to extricate themselves from their current situation that they shouldn’t commemorate it in case it’s seen as rubbing it in the noses of Russians. Well obviously you do as you wouldn’t be hypocritical

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055964#Comment_119055964

If you're going to dump drivel like this instead of engaging sensibly, take it how you want.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055747#Comment_119055747

Francie I think you don’t live so far from this. You know the truth. Interesting that you want to roll in behind this nonsense. I am guessing most other posters will see your mask slip again in that post.

you also know the stats for terrorism in Fermanagh

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119055983#Comment_119055983

Well I know that one case in Roslea was a fabrication by those who desperately want to claim the IRA campaign was sectarian. What is ignored is the fact that the dead man was warned to stop selling to security forces. That was why he was killed as were Catholics who did the same.

You can have whatever opinion of that policy as you want ( I think it was horrific and of course wrong) but you cannot call it something it clearly wasn't. He wasn't killed just because of his religion.

bob mcbob

A genuine question here - How many generations is it going to take before the bitterness and rancour between the two sides, all too visible in threads like this, is cast aside?

Because until that happens, I cannot see a UI happening.

Until there is a positive vision of the future for moderates (on both sides) any border poll is doomed. IMO

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119056663#Comment_119056663

It's not both sides. Nationalists had accepted the status quo and were working within the framework of the GFA and the assembly to achieve their long term goals. Unionists, by contrast precipitated an artificial constitutional crisis, vetoed any solutions and now have the neck to pretend to be victims of their own actions.

All they had to do was to back Theresa May once and it'd have been put to bed. They'd have once again escaped from the consequences of their actions. Once. But no. They had to play another game of "Ulster says no!" and now look where NI is stuck.