Will road projects speed up when the Greens are voted out?

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528820#Comment_118528820

And yet hospitals still do not have enough capacity even with all those extra services and supports. So we still have to add more capacity to the hospitals.

That doesn't mean the hospital was a failure, or that building it in the first place was the wrong choice. No matter how healthy you keep people with extra supports, primary care, etc, a growing population inevitably means more people will get sick, and a hospital that was under capacity when it was built will eventually be over capacity and in need of expansion.

Just like roads.

magicbastarder

Just like roads.

building hospitals does not make people sick. building roads creates traffic.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528845#Comment_118528845

Building hospitals doesn't make people sick, any more than building roads forces people to get in cars and drive on them.

Just like building roads, building hospitals draws people into an area by increasing the population which can be supported, leading to a steady increase in users until the hospital is eventually over capacity. In the same way, building roads increases the desirability of an area and spurs economic development, leading to more people using the road until it is eventually over capacity.

Public health investment can reduce the number of people needing to go to hospital, like public transport investment can reduce the number of people needing to drive. However, in both cases, regardless of the investment in alternatives, the population growth will still require an expansion of the underlying infrastructure.

There is nothing wrong or abnormal about this. Cities grow, and countries grow. Growth is good. Infrastructure has to grow too.

Strumms

I think people need to remember that in the last opinion poll, i think the examiner yep it was…on January 9th the greens went from 4% to 3% approval rating.

I think the pandemic has shown them up to be one trick ponies… adept at pointing and roaring at problems but in-adept at offering real, workable and implementable solutions..

the empty vessel makes the most noise is a very applicable and appropriate proverb with which to describe the greens unfortunately.. shouldn’t be let anywhere near the possibility to have decision making governance or influence in this state again… a disaster of a collective…

We need to get going and investing in our welfare… transport being one…let’s get public transportation designed and built to suit our populations requirements….

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528953#Comment_118528953

Building roads absolutely, empirically encourages (not forces) people to drive more. People will raise jobs a further distance away if the roads make the trip shorter. People will go to shops or entertainment that is further away if the roads facilitate it. People will take more day trips or weekend trips away if they can get there more easily by motorway instead of on congested local roads. If the M50 did not exist, would we see the same number of people travelling across the city and back for work each day?

None of these are bad things by themselves but they show that building roads adds more traffic. Building hospitals does not directly (or even indirectly in any great proportion) increase the number of times people go to hospital, its a ridiculous comparison.

magicbastarder

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/

Leonard Hofstadter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521485#Comment_118521485

Well actually the Greens sought and got a commitment on €1 million a day on active travel infrastructure, and the remaining transport budget to have a 2:1 split between public transport and roads. In addition, the NDP requires transport projects to be assessed on their impact on emissions.

So they very much DO have a role to play in why roads projects are being needlessly delayed. You would not see such a paltry amount of money being spent on our creaking roads network if Ryan and his cronies were not in power.

KrisW1001

Still no.

The Greens have nothing to do with the emissions assessment. That’s an international treaty obligation that the Irish government entered into under the Paris Agreement - a treaty ratified by a Dáil that had zero Green TDs sitting in the room, let alone in Government.

The 2:1 budget split is pretty easy to achieve when there are massive capital projects in public transport that pre-date the Greens like Dart Underground and Metro that far exceed the cost of every road that people claim the Greens have “delayed”.

And that million a day on cycling and walking facilities is not taking from the roads budget - much of the spend is connected with construction of new roads. If adding cycle-lanes gets road improvements done, I’m all for cycle-lanes, even if I personally have zero interest in cycling.

Or, if it helps, you can look at it more selfishly: every person who gets out of their car and onto a bike (or a bus) frees up space on the roads, and unless you’ve got long-term investments in the concrete industry, then as a driver, reduction of road-traffic levels should be your main goal, not “building roads”.

Once you stop looking for bogeymen, the real reasons aren’t hard to see: an understaffed planning organisation, a slow appeals process, and a shortage of funds from the Exchequer once planning has been obtained. (I don’t consider NIMBYs a problem: it’s only the slowness of the legal appeals process that makes them an issue).

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524362#Comment_118524362

Doesn't have to be that way. For instance if a bypass of a village also means the old Main st. is pedestrianized then people get an enhanced living environment. New roads doesn't have to mean more roads.

marno21

There’s an obsession amongst hardline environmentalists and indeed some Green Party members of using comparisons with North American highway widening schemes and urban highway expansion plans in other countries as an argument against road development. Sure adding another lane to Interstate 405 in Los Angeles only increases congestion. Adding another lane to the M50 would have the same result and you could use the North American comparison.

Where this argument falls down is that a very small amount of projects fall under these criteria in Ireland. No one is proposing widening the M50 or the N40 to address congestion. In the NDP, I would categorise the Galway Ring Road and the approach roads to Dublin widening as roads being touted as solutions to address urban congestion and where induced demand is an argument against their development. That’s 7 of the 45 projects in the plan. Upgrading the N17 or N24 can’t be compared to widening urban freeways. There will be an increase in traffic, but it’s comfortably within the design spec of the road and it will take journeys off less safe routes and into one safe trunk route. The vast majority of the inter urban network in Ireland has no congestion and is doing exactly what it was intended to do and the new roads projects (upgrading the N17, N20, N4, N21 etc) will be the same. They’ll free up towns from traffic and provide fit for purpose routes for long distance traffic.

As for the climate argument, not building a bypass of Abbeyfeale will not address the climate issue which is global in nature and will only be addressed through a global response. It’s not fair that Ireland has to concede it’s high quality of life in order to feel better about ourselves while serious emitters continue to do nothing. Per capita emissions in Ireland are already half of those in North America so it seems we have done enough to be proud of ourselves for now, maybe it’s their turn to have a lash at cutting their emissions, and in Ireland focus on low hanging fruit such as having a rail network that’s 98% powered by diesel, burning coal and bunker fuel to make electricity, having no functional system for planning offshore wind turbines etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528641#Comment_118528641

It's convenient to the whole country, drivers and otherwise, because there's a tram linking to Heuston Station. Spare us your utterly delusional understanding of how to run a country. National hospitals are located in the heart of major cities the world over. Great Ormonde Street isn't plonked in the middle of Yorkshire for good reason. I suppose you are one of those who wanted the hospital to be located in Athlone... a place where no hospital currently exists. St. James is where the expertise already exists and the public transport exists. It's not there to suit drivers. Drivers can use public transport. Ambulances can access the hospital easily if drivers move out of the way.

It's the 21st century people. Your 'vision' for a car dependent Ireland would be laughed away in any other country, bar maybe certain states in America. Try proposing your thoughts in any EU or liberal democracy. We're finally coming to the stage where this parochial silliness is slowly ending here too.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118531695#Comment_118531695

Not sure what you mean by the vision for a car dependent Ireland.

I'm looking out my window in suburban Cork. There's 19 cars outside between mine and the other 3 houses I know closest to me. I can hear the N40 in the distance. There's no vision, it's already here.

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118529099#Comment_118529099

Stay at home so, and don’t u dare fly anywhere cause that’s a lot worse than driving!

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118531695#Comment_118531695

the national children's hospital was moved from harcourt street to tallaght, where it's currently based. so clearly a precedent for having it within shouting distance of the M50. no-one in this thread mentioned athlone before you did, so that's a straw man.

further, you mention GOSH - that has been there for nearly two centuries, we are talking about creating a new children's hospital. also, the population of london is pretty much double the population of ireland and it has a rail network which we could never aspire to, and the vast majority of that ~10m people all live within probably 25km of the city centre. so it already has a catchment area with double the population anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532755#Comment_118532755

Why should it be near the M50? What about people who don't drive cars? Why must we constantly discriminate against those who can't drive or can't afford to have a car? When it was announced that the hospital would be located at St. James', loads of dopes were on the journal and other béal bocht mouthpieces wondering why the hospital wasn't being located in Athlone 'because it's right in the middle of Ireland'. This was repeated ad nauseam by people who seem to believe that any and every public service should be located in random places scattered throughout the country.

Come back to me with other children's hospitals being built to solely suit the needs of drivers rather than evidenced-based clinical need (colocating the NCH with maternity and adult expertise) and access to the public regardless of whether they own a car or not/can drive or not.

If you're relying on the creation of the suburban mess made of D24 in the 80s and 90s, you're as well to made a comedy sketch of it to boot.

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118531695#Comment_118531695

It's hard for me to believe that you are making these arguments in good faith. GOSH first opened its doors shortly after the Famine, when Queen Victoria had barely started her reign. People got around differently in 1852 to how they get around nowadays. And are you seriously claiming that is more convenient to drive your sick child to the train station (or driving to wait for the bus to the train station) to wait to get the train to wait to get the tram to get to the hospital, than simply driving from your front door directly to your child's appointment? Or are you claiming merely that convenience and comfort are not important to these patients?

I wish we had the quality of road infrastructure that they have in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, or other liberal democracies. Separately, if making it easy to drive somewhere makes us "car-dependent", does making it easy to take a bus somewhere make us "bus-dependent"?

It is indeed the 21st century, and what a miracle it is that the average person can afford and maintain a vehicle that lets him travel anywhere he wants in the country (far more so than trains, which is so many couldn't survive the 20th century in Ireland). We sometimes forget how lucky we are to have cars. We're certainly better off than those folks who were alive in 1852 when GOSH opened its doors.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118531125#Comment_118531125

Yes, Ireland's emissions are a drop in the ocean. If China, India, Russia and the US won't stop pouring carbon into the atmosphere, we wouldn't make a difference to the global climate even if we reverted to a medieval standard of living overnight. Sometimes it feels like our old Catholic ways coming to the surface again, desperately looking for a sin to feel guilty about and punish (especially if it allows for the shaming of others). Car dependent Ireland arrived a long time ago, along with a massive general surge in our quality of living, so let's keep on making things better for as many people as possible in this country. That means more public transport and cycleways, and it also means better and safer roads.

magicbastarder

Why should it be near the M50? What about people who don't drive cars?

because if it's going to be the national children's hospital, a significant proportion of patients and families will be travelling to it from all corners of the country. and the vast majority of those be arriving by car. and i didn't realise the M50 was so far away from dublin that people in dublin who don't drive can't get to it?

people with sick children might have a reason to not want to travel with their kids on public transport to get to hospital, either.

it's paywalled now, but this is a good article - a doctor in james's who himself had to attend crumlin for cancer treatment, arguing that placing a children's hospital in an area with heavy traffic, was a stupid idea. FWIW, his sister is an active travel advocate.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/st-jamess-a-bad-location-for-a-childrens-hospital-34793006.html

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533851#Comment_118533851

"Oh look, a single doctor who said something I agree with", despite medical opinion being wholly in favour of either the St. James' site or the Mater. Neither being on the M50.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533656#Comment_118533656

Major hospitals with specific remits such as a children's hospital are still built in the heart of cities. I thought I'd remind you that there is such thing as ambulances. The biggest obstacle to ambulances is traffic. You commented earlier that we need more roads because the population is growing. Based on that logic, nobody would have decided that Paris, London, New York etc needed to move off the road to underground in the late 19th century.

Cars are great. I have one myself. I don't use it in cities. Cars are not good for cities. That's why cities that function properly invest in alternatives that everyone can use. This is not some novel eureka thought. Cities such as London and Paris impose disincentives such as congestion charges because otherwise the city would cease to function seamlessly. Once a city is in gridlock, it ceases to function effectively, (aka the M50 every morning), so cities lose time, money, tourism and business. It also impacts the quality of life of hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people. People who move to a city expect high speed rapid transit first and foremost, not motorways. Land in cities is scarce and at a premium. Therefore, land, be it for housing, transport or otherwise, has to be utilised and developed to suit the needs of the masses, not just those privileged enough to be able to drive or afford a car. This is why European cities contrast so glaringly with those in the US. It's an ideological manifestation of values.

Cars are great for interurban transit and rural transport. However, their individual nature is antithetical to how a city operates or should operate, which attracts and caters to a huge range of socio-economic and other needs. I've said it before, Ireland's very recent experience of dense urban living is still very slow to catch on with some, mostly those of a certain age who often have limited international experience, and especially those who naively think a rural/small town lifestyle of 2 cars with a 2 storey house can be transposed to a city.

There's neither rhyme nor reason to your supposed logic, nor to this stupid thread. The road blitz of the 90s is over. It's over because most roads have been built. Bar the M20, N21, N24, the Donegal triangle, the N15 Sligo to Leitrim border, most roads are finished or will be finished within a matter of a few years. The notorious N5 will be effectively solved by 2024, for example. The focus needs to shift from building motorways to finalising these remaining projects, but only in tandem with a historic shift in focus away from roads and towards public and active transport. Removing bad bends on the secondary routes should also be prioritised as minor projects, eg. N71 in places, N63 Mountbellew to Roscommon, N52 through Offaly and Tipp, etc. That's it. The Greens' stance on the M20 won't have any influence on whether it's built or not. It was FG that cancelled it. It was FG that cancelled the Metro and innumerable other projects. These are the facts. The scale of cognitive dissonance among some people on here is astounding.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118533851#Comment_118533851

The main reason for the hospitals locations are medical, not transports. It's a consideration but not the top one.

Within transport, the main users of the hospitals are the staff who will, in the majority, live in Dublin and surrounding counties. If the hospital is located in a central area, public transport is an option for some staff. Yes, there are shift staff who won't be able to use public transport but there are plenty of medical, admin and support staff who can. For others, walking, cycling, e-scooters, etc may be an option. If the hospital is located in suburban areas, the number of staff who would be able to use public or active transport diminishes.

After that (purely in terms of numbers), you have visitors, vendors, parents, etc. Some of these will be able to use public and active transport, others will have to drive. If the hospital is build in a central area, you can have both. If it's built in a suburban area, you can't. Even visitors coming from outside the city have the option of using public transport for the entire trip or driving to a P&R facility and taking a train the rest of the way.

Then (still in terms of numbers) come the regular patients. Most of these will be coming for scheduled appointments and aren't critically ill. Public or active transport may be an option, others will have to drive. My eldest daughter spent several years taking the Luas & Dublin Bus to her appointments in Crumlin.

And lastly, the acutely or critically ill patients. Some will arrive by ambulance, others will be driven to appointments by family. No-one is denying that these groups exist or that they have to be looked after.

If you build the hospital in a suburban area, you are forcing every one of these groups to arrive by car. That means more money spent building roads and providing parking and creates the congestion that you're trying to avoid by locating it outside of the city centre. Sit outside any busy hospital at the start of shift or the beginning of public appointment times and tell me that road access isn't a problem. That congestion means delays to ambulances. It means parents with sick children in the car will be delayed getting into the hospital and finding a parking space.

magicbastarder

ah yeah, i understand all that; i just think that how 'clients' get to the hospital becomes a much bigger factor than with a normal hospital, when it by definition will be serving people coming from as far away as west cork or northwest donegal who will be arriving by car.

magicbastarder

one missed opportunity was that back in the days that the blanchardstown shopping centre was still just a concept, they were talking about a light rail system out to blanchardstown; one which i think would have served the hospital. there should be one anyway, but it might have strengthened whatever argument was there about blanch being a candidate for the NCH site.

lalababa

Up de greens! One of many hopes for a cleaner , sustainable future!

Calling a political party gouwls is untasteful, immature and a little bit Trump like. It brings political discussions to new lows. Things like mehole and leo the leak etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118535066#Comment_118535066

This 👌☝🏽

That's the point I'm trying to make about public transport and locating services of national importance where the density of people and PT exists: it's accessible to all regardless of driving ability or means. PT is egalitarian.

All of these people spouting about West Cork and Donegal miss that point. The bigger issue isn't why these people can't drive to hospital, it's why they have to because the public transport in their own counties is abysmal. Someone travelling from West Cork to St. James can do PT from Cork Kent all the way to the hospital, with only the change from train to tram. The journey from West Cork to Kent is the problem.

magicbastarder

All of these people spouting about West Cork and Donegal miss that point.

'all of these people'? that's me, you can reply directly to me if you wish. and when you call my contributions 'spouting', you really show you're really not interested in debating politely.

anyway yes, the public transport in northwest donegal is abysmal. pointing that out is not missing the point, that is the bloody point.

and we're talking about sick kids here. telling parents they should get the train instead won't work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536798#Comment_118536798

Hmm, how can I reply directly to somebody by the name of 'magicbastarder'? Your excessive indulgence in emotion only proves how tenuous your argument is.

Sick children could easily access hospital if more drivers not carrying sick children left the road and switched to PT. It's that simple. Northwest Donegal has bad public transport. Maybe one reason is because Donegal (where I'm from) makes a fine art of à la carte one-off-housism. I do know that within Donegal and the wider West of Ireland or rural Ireland generally, there's a widespread mentality that public buses are for the elderly, students and those on social welfare. To be seen getting a bus is considered by many as daft/inefficient/low class/silly/unbecoming.

The public transport is poor everywhere outside Dublin, save random exceptions like Thurles and Athlone. Your solution is to sustain this by plonking everything next to a motorway because it suits you. That's not going to happen so deal with that fact first. Secondly, stop clogging hospitals with needless journeys to said hospitals for outpatient appointments and the like. If an outpatient is able to drive to the hospital, they're able to get the bus to it as well. They could at least park somewhere else in the town. The irony of the 'why can't we park at the hospital' brigade is that ambulances and staff are blocked too.

You can throw out the worst made-up example of somebody being denied access to St. James' because they can't drive there and pull the grá mo chroí card by equating hospital accessed via PT = you're stopping parents driving sick kids. That's just hypothetical buinneach that amounts to nothing only emotional blackmail, something that many in Ireland thrive on as an alternative to discussing policy, especially when they have no evidence-based arguments. Come back to us with verified sources of this happening rather than hoping I and others will feel guilty because an anonymous profile told us we are somehow stopping sick children going to hospital.

Fyi, McGinley's run frequent buses right to the heart of Dublin.

magicbastarder

Your solution is to sustain this by plonking everything next to a motorway because it suits you.

am done. i never said that, head off and have these imaginary arguments in your own head.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536949#Comment_118536949

You want the NCH next to the M50 because it suits you. It doesn't suit everyone because not everyone drives a car, much less can afford one. Get over it, it's at St. James'. Park at the P&R and access it the same way everyone else does.

Phil.x

It will be a great day when salad box ryan and the crazy gang are no more.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118548248#Comment_118548248

What age are you?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118535536#Comment_118535536

Do you reckon the highly qualified experts on the Dolphin committee that made the recommendation didn’t think of that?

Phil.x

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118548661#Comment_118548661

What age are you?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118549025#Comment_118549025

Maybe try not to display your ignorance of matters under discussion in public;

https://www.newchildrenshospital.ie/publication/review-group-on-the-national-childrens-hospital-report-to-the-minister/

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118550127#Comment_118550127

The moderators can decide that, not you. There has been a couple of pages of discussion about the hospital. I didn't bring it up.

magicbastarder

Paywalled

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fg-backbenchers-threaten-to-withdraw-support-for-greens-over-road-funding-41292307.html

markpb

More than half a billion in road projects is not enough for some FG TDs apparently. What happened to the PfG commitment to spend 2:1 in favour of public/active transport?

magicbastarder

it's not the topic i would expect would threaten the government. several of those TDs must know that next time round they won't get their seats back.

Kermit.de.frog

The Green TD's I'm sure do know they won't be getting their seats back.

This madness, putting restrictions on ourselves, carbon taxes and the rest will only lead to the type of mess Germany is currently in.

It's madness.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118555754#Comment_118555754

A lot of TD's never get their seats back and a lot of TD's do, such is the nature of elections.

Also, whether the greens are in govt or not makes little difference in terms of climate actions being taken. The last govt had a climate action plan that was thrown out by the courts as it didn't do enough and this govt was forced to come up with more solid plans and stricter implementation requirements and deadlines. This would have been done regardless of the greens being in power because we've signed up at an international level to do this.

Its been written into current legislation that the reductions must be met and any misses are loaded onto the next target period e.g. if they plan for 10% between 2020-2025 and 2025-2030 only achieve 3% in 2020-2025 then 17% becomes the new target for 2025-2030 and plans and actions are required to be adjusted accordingly.

So yeah, whoever is in govt will have no option but to follow through. That so few realise this, and instead like to paint the greens as some sort of boogeyman is honestly weird.

Genuine question, who are you going to blame if the greens are not in the next govt but the climate actions continue as planned? What about the govt after that one? I ask because these are decade long plans and in some cases, multi-decade, so while there may be tweaks and modifications to the methods, this is only going one way.

magicbastarder

The Green TD's I'm sure do know they won't be getting their seats back.

well, yes, but they're not the ones threatening to pull the plug.

anyway, i can't tell which road projects are in play because i don't have a subscription, but i assume the N20 is one of them.

Chris_5339762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118555571#Comment_118555571

The trouble is, due to mismanagement of public transport by government after government, there simply aren't enough PT projects ready for construction to spend money on. All of the public transport work is studies/planning, and will be for the next few years as well. It's actually really hard to spend say, a billion on PT at the moment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118555910#Comment_118555910

A similar problem exists with the "million a day" for cycling. There simply aren't enough projects ready to go to use the money but that's gradually starting to change as councils / depts get things moving

veryangryman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118535758#Comment_118535758

Anyone who needlessly makes my unavoidable purchases more expensive is a gowl and that is not immature, it is fact. I can be professional and try to vote them out but alas my 1 vote won't cut it so one needs to vent their frustration with said gowls from time to time.

Same for the minimum unit pricing task force setup to introduce more stealth taxes. Also gowls. The least they could do with the money raised would be to improve infrastructure.

Yes the second point is off-topic but I wanted to confirm that I don't discriminate with my usage of the word. And it is very, very appropriate currently.

SC024

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528953#Comment_118528953

perhaps but there is a cohort out there that will run down to the local a & e with a runny nose or a cut finger where most people would ignore it & rock on. If we build more A&E's you'll have more silly visits along with the genuine cases that actually need it. In much the same way you build more roads you will have more people taking the motorway for exit 7 to 8 to get a pint of milk in order to have a gander at the new road & see what all the excitement was about. you will also have people that it makes there lives easier. Should we stop building roads? stop building Hospitals too ?

marno21

The article is just a rundown of the 8 projects and dissatisfaction from TDs/Senators in the affected constituencies. Nothing major or noteworthy.

What I find baffling is that these 8 projects have been slowly moving along since 2018 with low funding in most cases. The N24 has taken 4 years to get to the stage of not even the route options being published. Had they given these 8 projects 200/300k for the coming year, they'd have pottered along in a Roads Design Office for the year making no major progress, but instead, having been defunded, all have been turned into political footballs and are now headline news in local constituencies, despite their defunding not making a whole lot of difference to what actually would have happened on the ground. These 8 projects are now after moving up the priority list due to the threat of "cancellation", which will likely see them given more priority than had they kept their mouths shut and given them the usual 200/300k for 2022. A spectacular own goal only the Irish Green Party could score.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118556676#Comment_118556676

For most people, if you walk into ED you pay €100 for the privilege. The same doesn’t apply to driving. The marginal cost of driving an extra 20km on a motorway is tiny and you don’t pay it at the time so most people don’t consider it even deciding if they should drive the extra trip/distance.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118556081#Comment_118556081

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557855#Comment_118557855

Minimum unit pricing (assuming you are referring to alcohol) has been in preparatiuon for nearly ten years. It has pretty much nothing to do with the greens. It was included under the Public Health (Alcohol) Act 2018 which was a couple of years before the current government were voted in. But hey, sure blame the greens for your anger anyhow.

veryangryman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557887#Comment_118557887

Where do I say I blame the Greens for MUP?

I was answering thequery on calling people who deserve it gowls, using MUP as an example. You're right, not everything is the Green's fault. My anger issues originate from things these people do, but thanks for caring :)

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118558203#Comment_118558203

You were replying to a post in a thread about the greens. The post you replied to doesn't say much but it did literally say "Up de greens!". It is a reasonable presumption that you, like the rest of us, are discussing the greens unless you are confused as well as angry!

marno21

Lads there's more than enough material to discuss from the thread title without going near MUP. On topic please.