Will road projects speed up when the Greens are voted out?

veryangryman

I think it's fair to say that spot of projects ran out of time before the gowls got into coalition. Thankfully they screwed themselves out of keeping seats enough to guarantee a fall from Grace in next election.

Anyway, based on the possibility if a non green next gov, will the much needed projects get over the line faster? I think yes

markpb

Yes. If the Greens aren’t in government in Ireland, the world will stop worrying about a climate change crisis, our international commitments to reduce emissions will go away and road transport will stop being a major contributor.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058229315/will-road-projects-speed-up-when-the-greens-are-voted-out

If SF is looking to form a government without FF or FG, Greens will almost certainly be required to make up the numbers, even if they are down to three or four seats. So current government not returning does not necessarily mean Greens are out of the picture.

veryangryman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516594#Comment_118516594

Commitments and following them through to the letter are 2 different things. The local TD is more likely to cave to the short-sightedness of people like me who just want to be able heat a house and get around without living in a city.

Aontachtoir

At this stage the next government will most likely be SF/FF, with or without other smaller left-wing parties to make up the numbers as needed. So, hyper-populist at its core. I doubt the Greens will be allowed to stand in the way of very popular policies like slashing carbon taxes and building new roads (two guaranteed vote-winners). The next election campaign will see a heavy focus on who can offer the greatest improvements in the cost of living and quality of life to Irish people, and a key part of that will be once again making energy cheaper and private car transport easier. If the Greens raise objections on climate commitments, then the election will effectively become a referendum on what should drive Irish policy - meeting climate commitments, or ensuring that Irish people can afford to keep their high standard of living. Environmental legislation and regulations can also be repealed as necessary to permit rapid development.

So, yes, hopefully the roads will start to move to construction much faster once the Greens are out.

bk

No, because fundamentally, other then the M20 and a few bits, we mostly already have a very good road network. There really isn't a great deal more to do.

The focus now needs to be on public transport into and around our cities. That is the part of the transport picture that is still very poor compared to similar sized European neighbours.

touts

No. The public face of the greens are their TDs. They are relatively harmless and have a relatively minor role in the green movement. The real problem comes from their unelected elements. The real power in the greens lies with An Taisce. They will continue to have an unfair quasi-veto over all development on this island. And their stormtroopers "The Friends of the Irish Environment" will object to everything in rural Ireland. Much needed infrastructure like the M20 and M24 are basically dead in the water.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516611#Comment_118516611

The Greens will be lucky to have the 2 TDs they had in the last Dail after the next election. The smaller party in an unpopular coalition always suffers most and I reckon SF could hoover the preferences that got most of their TDs elected.

Pete_Cavan

Well funding for road projects is due to increase substantially from 2026 so road projects will/should speed up then, but that will have nothing to do with the Greens. Indeed the Greens partly created the plan to have road projects speed up under the next government.

KrisW1001

No. As noted, the Greens have activated a lot of local bypass projects that have been gathering dust for decades now.

The delays to projects are from two sources:

• The long planning process, and the longer appeals process after planning is granted.
• Limits to the government’s capital budget

The Green Party has feck-all to do with either of these. On the first point, the majority of the problem appeals are driven by property-value concerns; environmental concern is almost always a smokescreen (witness the M28 debacle).

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518176#Comment_118518176

You are right in saying most of the work is done with i would say less then 6 Motorways/ Type 2 dual carriageways to be completed but in saying that there is an awful amount of upgrades that need or should be done on the national secondary network

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518176#Comment_118518176

Think you need to travel outside of Dublin if U believe that

Thelonious Monk

I can't wait till the Greens are voted out just to see who the country rednecks will blame for all their problems next

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521730#Comment_118521730

Jesas generalize much ?

any other groups , maybe even ethnicities you want to generalize against ?

steeler j

So we are rednecks for wanting a government to spend money and build infrastructure in rural towns and cities . A stupid take on things

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521730#Comment_118521730

Ah yes i remember that time the healy raes objected to the metro going to sandyford

Strumms

The Green Party transport green paper is laughable….

it amounts to in the main… cycling and then just a load of lip service to other aspects of peoples transport needs….business transport needs..

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058229315/will-road-projects-speed-up-when-the-greens-are-voted-out

Which projects are you referring to that the "gowls" in the government coalition have delayed? Given that the greens have feck all influence overall, I'm curious to see what they have done to delay national infrastructural projects (given that other factors uncluding lack of funding have not caused delays).

Or is it as I suspect, you don't like the greens simply because of mumble mumble mumble?

smacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521792#Comment_118521792

The much needed rejuvenation of rural Ireland would probably benefit more from spend on high speed broadband infrastructure than roads, making our rural towns attractive places to do business in and to live in without silly commutes.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118518214#Comment_118518214

i had never known the greens were a subsidiary of an taisce. or that FoIE were objecting to 'everything in rural ireland'.

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522227#Comment_118522227

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/green-party-chair-consulting-on-challenge-to-galway-ring-road-1.4769465

constantly challenging, appealing and voting against anything that will bring the rest of the country’s infrastructure up to a suitable standard

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522296#Comment_118522296

It would but I know of a lot of people in towns that are not able to get around the towns because of traffic especially hgvs . These are people that cycle and walk but have to deal with hgvs and long distance traffic . Trying to get across the main street in some towns to get from shop to shop can be diffcult and dangerous

Which road projects though?

I’m looking at a massive Dunkettle interchange project proceeding at speed in Cork and the other key project - a motorway to Ringaskiddy isn’t held up by the Greens, it’s been a long term hold up by a bunch of local NIMBYs.

The M20 is about the only significant road project that needs to move. Otherwise I don’t really know what road issues we are suffering from ? Improved maintenance on rural roads would be useful.

The Galway Ring project will probably just never happen because of Galway NIMBY/BANANA (Build a absolutely nothing anywhere near anything) issues, not because of the Green Party. It should have been build 20+ years ago.

Dublin and some of the other cities are in dire need of public transit investment and they are starting to see a bit of light on that at last. Without that, you’re looking at irish cities grinding to a gridlocked halt. No amount of road investment can fix Dublin’s traffic issues. The only solution to that is public transport, because the the density and scale of the city is beyond the ability to drive in and out. Cork is following rapidly down that path too.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522330#Comment_118522330

1. She is a senator so not a member of the coalition.
2. She is exploring the possibility of action against the GRR (which as an infrastructure project will do feck all for Galway traffic but there is already a thread on that!). Her exploration of action has not delayed this project so why mention it?

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522470#Comment_118522470

Look two posts up

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522484#Comment_118522484

That’s Galway though. It’s always been Galway. I don’t really see that city developing as it just has an object to absolutely everything and remain a small village type local political culture.

If you look at the progress and urban infrastructure ambition in Cork, Limerick or Waterford there’s just no comparison.

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522482#Comment_118522482

She is a Green Party chairwoman … so representing the green party

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522430#Comment_118522430

Is the problem that every town needs to be bypassed so that we can cross roads or that we have seriously increased our car ownership numbers and now feel we need to drive everywhere despite an oncoming climate crisis?

Building more roads doesn't reduce the numbers of people driving: it increases them!

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522494#Comment_118522494

I can’t disagree with that in fairness … In my credit I’m a blow in 😀

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522498#Comment_118522498

Well in Galways situation … cars trucks and even tractors have to drive into the city in order to cross the river and head to the west.. absolute madness

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522498#Comment_118522498

Not every town , a few towns need a bypass even as it is without adding any more cars . Very hard to get people out of cars and to walk or cycle if it's full of traffic ,as they feel unsafe .

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522542#Comment_118522542

I thought only something like 7% of traffic actually crosses Galway?

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522657#Comment_118522657

7% of what traffic … we can run many surveys And twist the results on whatever parameter we want … but fact is that that anyone from majority of country wanting to go to moycullen.. oughterard …clifden ..round stone.. letterfrack etc all have to come through Galway city … which is crazy … adds to the traffic, increases smog and increases pollution ..

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522497#Comment_118522497

So she is not a TD and therefore is not part of the coalition.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522559#Comment_118522559

So because the roads are more dangerous because of the increase in cars, we need to increase the number of roads and therefore the number if cars?

I see a flaw with that logic.

Still, I'm not seeing any example of where the greens as a coalition partner have delayed any road projects (which I thought is what the thread is supposed to be about!)

steeler j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523267#Comment_118523267

A lot of roads are dangerous because of bad alignment as well and a lot of people need to drive to places public transport does not work for everyone

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523267#Comment_118523267

She’s a Green Party member , her party is in coalition … the fact that she isn’t a td doesn’t mean that therefore she has no say in the party or isn’t working as part of their game plan does it ? Anyways I didn’t start or name this thread but it’s referring to roads being sped up if greens voted out… it didn’t specify Green Party elected tds only

sdanseo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522311#Comment_118522311

Yep, that claim is blatantly untrue.

They object to everything in Urban Ireland as well. Including Intensive Care Units.

An out-of-tune choir of septuagenarian, backward-thinking gombeens.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/objections-to-mater-hospital-s-plan-for-pandemic-treatment-facility-1.4692038

https://www.thejournal.ie/mater-hospital-extension-block-an-taisce-5566284-Oct2021/

magicbastarder

i don't understand how the mater would have a new building partly "operational by end of Q1/start of Q2 2022.”

and colour me sceptical about their intentions. were i to be (god forbid) cynical, what is the purpose of this building between now and a 'future pandemic'? sounds to me like they're using covid as a trojan horse for a not insignificant expansion. cos sure as shinola, this is not intended for use exclusively as a pandemic ward.

maybe i'm a septugenarian too.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522892#Comment_118522892

i can't say it's a topic i know all the ins and outs of, but i know a couple of people living in galway (mainly over salthill side) and their attitude is that yeah, if they spend €600m/€1bn, whatever this is going to cost, they'll still need to make significant and much needed investment in public transport in galway. whereas this road won't really address that.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522892#Comment_118522892

Assuming you’re right and the road is needed, we can say with almost absolute certainty that the new road will create extra road trips which will eventually cause additional congestion in the area. What then? Another bypass?

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523576#Comment_118523576

No doubt that’s true for Galway city but for the whole west, this road was needed decades ago to join up the rural areas with rest of country . I believe there’s lots of complaints in regards to the last version of the road … more of a distributor road than a bypass …. But the way I see it is any option that can be achieved that will stop unnecessary traffic coming into the city, all the Better

SuperBowserWorld

Sounds like some people in rural Ireland can't wait for more roads so that they become Greater Dublin. They love gridlock, noise pollution, air pollution, car dependency, hyper competition for schools, creches, sky high house prices, ... no more peace and quiet, more road deaths, drink driving, ...destruction of wildlife and habitats ...

Didn't even mention climate.

You don't know what you got till it's gone ...

They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

veryangryman

Gotta take the rough with the smooth. The world is screwed anyway. Lets try to make the most of whats left. As for adding gridlock. Do me a favour.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523493#Comment_118523493

This thread was originally asked if infrastructure projects would speed up if the greens were voted out (hint: look at the thread title).

She is not elected to the Dáil nor has she done anything to delay the Galway project - she is thinking about doing something. Have you a better example of the greens delaying an infrastructre project?

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524385#Comment_118524385

Children's hospital location is an absolute disaster. It's like they took the access and parking problems of Crumlin hospital and made it 10 times worse and learned nothing.

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524775#Comment_118524775

Well if your goin to get into semantics . Here’s a link showing Eamon Ryan making statements regarding the Galway ring road , where he considers city dwellers without any consideration of all the folks further out west . The link also shows him holding up limerick road

https://www.thejournal.ie/galway-ring-road-approval-5623696-Dec2021/?amp=1

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525340#Comment_118525340

It's almost as if there were considerations other than drivers when choosing the location of a hospital! Reminder folks: it's a hospital, not a car park.

veryangryman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525571#Comment_118525571

Oh dear god. Ill just have to wander to St James with my broken leg in the Luas so. Or wait 2 hours for an ambulance.

The practicalities are endless.... i could even cycle in!!

But hey, cars and car parks are evil

Aontachtoir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524018#Comment_118524018

If more roads are needed after the bypass is built and public transportation is put in place according to the Galway Transport Strategy, then yes, of course we build them.

If there isn't enough space in a hospital to see all the patients that need medical attention, you don't scold the patients and send them packing. You have to invest, build more rooms and hire more staff. When capacity is met again, as it inevitably is with a growing population, you repeat the process as many times as necessary, including building a whole new hospital if and when needed.

Separately, as to your statement that hospitals are not car parks, as someone who works in a hospital environment, the families of sick patients often come a fair distance to see their loved ones. This means cars are generally the only practical option for them, and they need some place to leave them. You may be dismissive of the concept of making their lives a little easier in very unpleasant times, but it's not unreasonable to expect a newly-designed national hospital to be in a location that is relatively easily accessible to people who don't live on the Luas line or the relevant Dublin Bus route (ie, the vast majority of the country, who will be travelling by car under any realistic future scenario).

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118525571#Comment_118525571

it's the national children's hospital, and building it deep enough into dublin city when it could have been placed on the outskirts - when almost by definition it has to serve patients and family for whom public transport will not be an option - is a decision i still cannot fathom.

TnxM17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528641#Comment_118528641

Thats a very interesting analogy you put there for your car centric view, but not sure its the one you wanted to make.

Because they don't just "invest, build more rooms and hire more staff" in hospitals. There is a full range of services and supports so that people do not end up in the hospital setting.