Calf prices 2022

Injuryprone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928142#Comment_118928142

To be fair, it shouldn't have been much of a surprise to you. Nobody wants a young calf anymore. They need to be 30 days before the price starts going up. Young calves have only the shippers bidding on them, which given that the ship was out of action for the last fortnight, it's hardly surprising that they were just dividing them up. You did pretty well with the bulls, they must've been strong calves

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931120#Comment_118931120

Huge risk in a dairy farm to bring home calves. They could have picked something up in the mart and bring it back into the farm.

As well unless you have milk you are not sending to be processed it's costing you 45c/L of milk fed. A kg of calf ration is probably 40c. It's probably costing you a tenner a week to hold them aside from time spend looking after them.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931357#Comment_118931357

They're on an auto feeder. Milk is 50 cent+.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931186#Comment_118931186

Was getting 70 to 120 for 2 to 3 week old Angus all along. 30 day old calf is costing me 100 euro. These were some of my best calves all year but I guess it's getting late to be buying calves now.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931120#Comment_118931120

I wasn't at the mart. I was calculating was it worth going back to collect them and keep them another week or two. I'd have needed about 100 euro out of it to drop what I was at and go back to the mart. It wasn't worth my while. Got away fairly well all year considering the year thats in it.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931402#Comment_118931402

They is 50-60 calves more on the ground this year. Very few farmers are taking on extra stock because of extra costs involved.

The cost of rearing calves has accelerated. Calf ration is probably 100+/ton more expensive. Straw is hard got and probably 30/bale. Milk powder is 9/bag more expensive I taught I saw on a thread here.

Lads buying them coloured calves will make some twist on them if prices hold into next year.Coloured yearlings are making 2.5/kg.

In a way dairy expansion is killing the goose that laid the golden egg. We are seeing 50k to extra calves per year at present. The market is actually reaching saturation point. More calves than buyers.

The price dip will begin earlier next year and the year after. I was at a beef discussion walk before COVID and a lad asked why is a Hereford calf worth 250-300 euro.

The question now is why did lads pay 200-250 for these calves 4-6 weeks ago

Danzy

What are 8 week old aax heifers off decent, dairy bred worth currently.

Tks

cosatron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118931186#Comment_118931186

Well we bought 2 8 week old and 2 6 week old angus bull calves to mart last Thursday and we were lucky to get €100. The mart was saturated with sh*t calves and we are the ones who suffer

whelan2

Had a farmer ring looking for 6 aax heifer calves, nearly all bulls recently. Calf man will give me 100 euro for Angus bull calves.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932290#Comment_118932290

You won't get paid for taking calves to 6 or 8 weeks. It's just a nice gift for someone. Their drinking 25 euro of milk a week. They can take them home and wean them.

older by the day

Had 3 wk old Hereford heifers today they were making 60. Minus 9 commission, I brought them home. I would not give them the satisfaction. Some times you need to have a bit of pride in your work. It might not make financial since but I find it depressing to give away calves for nothing. Sher at 51 euro they might might make a profit sometime

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932544#Comment_118932544

At 51-70 euro they will make a margin. Carry to end of next year get to 500+kgs. Larry will give you 20c/kg on top of base and normal bonuses. Government will pay 100/head premia

cute geoge

It is near impossible for daity farmers to carry extra calves as most are stocked to their limits with nitrates as well unless you pay 300 euro plus for land .Hopefully the export will keep some floor under prices ,I kave been overstocked many a rough year with calves and cattle as well as cows and do you know what I would have been far better off finically and mentally to have sold my calves for 50 euro

cosatron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932491#Comment_118932491

It wasn't by choice we kept them that long

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932544#Comment_118932544

Give them the satisfaction is right. You can't lose, sure you have the majority of the work done. I'd keep more of mine if I had an outside block of land. 3 separate pieces of land slipped through my fingers last year but hopefully something will become available to buy soon.

_Brian

Was in Ballybay yesterday. Allot of poor small calves making very little money, lads can’t turn out poor stock and complain about prices

other than that prices running about 50% of other years.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938078#Comment_118938078

Same around here. The young/small/poor quality can be got for very little. Try buy a 6-8 week old beef type whitehead bull calf and you’ll give €250-€300. And I class them as much better value than a lot of sub €50 calves.

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932544#Comment_118932544

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118932650#Comment_118932650

I 100% see your point of view but the lad buying calves makes a very small twist off them anyhow. If fair enough really to present a well reared older calf and not to be worried about getting 50-100 euro extra for it. I know it’s money out of your pocket but it would be a sorry day if lads stopped buying calves too, really be up sh.t creek then.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938215#Comment_118938215

The thing is there is more of a loss in taking the calf to 8 weeks and selling them for 300. Better off sell them for 80 to 100 at 3 weeks. Calves cost 25 euro plus per week. Put a value on your own time after that, unless of course you think your time has no value. And you like giving early Xmas presents or you like telling people that you got 300 euro for a calf that actually cost you money...

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938215#Comment_118938215

There was a few proper quality hex bull and heifer calves in Carrigallen yesterday 25 to 35 days old sold from €230 to €290. Calf prices were better yesterday than last week with a lot sold online.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938517#Comment_118938517

I agree completely with that but the time and costs for rearing them are the same for the lad buying them as they are for the lad selling them. Hence the reason there’s only small money to be got for younger calves.

Pay any more than €80 - €100 for them and you’re only giving an early Xmas present to the dairy farmer selling them!

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938504#Comment_118938504

More like you would be giving the dairy farmer a fair price. I know the calf buyer can't get a fair price at the other side so what are they supposed to do. All these big dairy herds are not the answer I think.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939796#Comment_118939796

I think it was two years ago there was a thread about what would be the outcome of all the time extra dairy calves.

There is a conflict within Irish agriculture planning. Because of costs the Suckler cow is disappearing. In theory this should support calf prices as Suckler farmers switch over to calf to store/beef systems. However there is conflict as to what way this land base be pointed.

Fairy farmers themselves want this carbon for to keep dairy expansion going. The government and industry want a good percentage of this land is under Forrestery. On better land larger suckler farmers want to produce white gold. The Greens want over 20% of Irish farm land in organics or Forrestery

You just have to look at the percentage of farmers in this forum that are in organics or considering converting to it.

The problem with this is there is no place for a dairy calf on an organic farm or in a Forrest.

There is only so many calf rearers in the country. They now have a surplus if calves to rear. It really noticeable that every time there is a glitch in the export market then calf prices collapse.

What is happening is some supply and demand and a if we continue to see 50k more calves next year the price drop will be earlier in the year and last longer.

Will not even start to look at what will happen when calf exports stop in a few years time.

Anto_Meath

Lots of people don't want to hear it, but the dairy suck calf has become a waste product of the dairy industry. It is too expensive & to much labour to feed them for the first year. You will buy the average run of the mill lads at less than what it cost to rear them most years. The influence of je on the suck calf has even increased the gamble & it has become a gamble less & less people are will to take.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939796#Comment_118939796

Or maybe the dairy farmer should be fair to the beef man and not be trying to sell small young calves? Maybe the beef man sees €80-€100 as a more than fair price for such calves considering what he will get out of them 2 years later.

You said yourself it costs €25 a week to rear them on plus your time, what makes the dairy farmers time and money more valuable or important than the beef man? If the dairy farmer thinks its not feasible to rear them why does he think the next man in the line should do it?

Just to clarify I'm not trying to start an argument and I actually 100% agree with all you have said on the topic, I'm just trying to show you the viewpoint from the other side of the coin! I'm sure every calf to store/calf to beef man would love to be guaranteed a strong fair price for his end product and would have no issue paying more for calves if this was the case but unfortunately we are where we are.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940618#Comment_118940618

80 - 100 is fair enough. 5 euro for Friesians is a fair sickener. 20 euro for 3 week old Angus and Hereford is worse. It's just a pity that the store man gets screwed by the finisher and the dairy man gets screwed by the calf buyer. It's farmers screwing each other trying to get a margin for themselves while the supermarkets, etc. are having a laugh. If I had an outside block of land I'd keep alot more cull cows and calves to finish. I mightn't make much out of them but I'd feel better. Most of my calves sold for this year anyway.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940705#Comment_118940705

Again I agree with you but the whole cycle starts from the price paid to the finisher. I don't think its farmers screwing each other, but more-so the finisher knows what he can afford for stores, the store man then knows what he can give for weanlings/calves etc.

I was talking to a big beef finisher in the midlands recently (there are 4 people in a partnership) and he says they are making a million a year from cattle. It sounds like a lot of money, and don't get me wrong, it is a lot of money, but they killed 13,000 cattle last year. Divide that into the million and its €77 an animal profit and that includes the sfp as well. If they went out now and started to pay €100 a head more for stores they would have to spend all of their sfp on the farm and would still lose €300,000 in the year.

These lads would be as efficient as they come and would be well tuned in as regards maximizing payments and keeping costs down. I don't know what their sfp is but id imagine its substantial enough so I would think leaving that off they are aiming to make less than €50 per head in a store to finish system. The money is just not there in the finishing side of things.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940797#Comment_118940797

Ya, can only get worse with the price of nuts. A brave man's game.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940852#Comment_118940852

That's it, with such tight figures on such a big head count a man could be wiped out in a few months if things were to go wrong. I would imagine with them sort of numbers there would be some sort of price contract in place with the factory but even still it would be a massive turnover of money, upwards of €15 million a year investment, in order to make that million. So you're looking at about 6% profit margin including sfp. There's not to many businesses outside of agri that would continue operating on margins as tight as that.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940797#Comment_118940797

That neither here nor there in regard to the price of calves ,what is included in costs .

They might buy cattle on monday and killed the following day ,there only having the poor mouth anyway coming out with that tripe.

All I know is the beef finisher is doing his best to screw the storeman and they are just passing this onto the calf rearer and yourself and Bass Reeves are no angels in this regard

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940957#Comment_118940957

I'm afraid you're wrong, it's the finishing price that dictates the value of all beef stock, right back down to calves.

There was no poor mouth at all from him, I worked the figures out myself based on the info he had given me.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940495#Comment_118940495

+1

Also include the extensive use of short gestation easy calving AI bulls like KYA on dairy cows. IMO it doesn't matter if he was used on FR/x - JE/x they are runty kunts and don't kill out into any reasonable weights.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940048#Comment_118940048

The national herd has increased by 140,545 since Feb last year which is attributed to the increase in the dairy herd.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/bovine-cattle-herd-140-000-head-higher-on-1-february-2022-692122

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941171#Comment_118941171

Agree totally with you on KYA bull, all for easy runt calving and the Angus breeders went mad to breed them, now they are loosing ground to aubrac and speckled parks, and what are they going to breed from the KYA females only more runts. As for calves selling from 5 to 20 euros they are only screws and that is rob for them, if the dairy man is not happy with this price he should rear them himself to slaughter and show lads how to do it properly. The big plus is the dam on the board which now dictates the trade.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940957#Comment_118940957

Over the last 2years I finished 65+/-5 cattle. So suddenly I control the market. I do not claim Saint hood, but neither do I control the market. I will protect or increase my margin if at all possible. I am developing a sweet spot. Time input V reward.

At present dairy farmers look at calf price V costs. Why am I not entitled to look at the same cost benefit analysis.

On a 70 acre farm I finish 60 cattle. I am trying to achieve a 300/head margin is that too much to expect. I will never apologize for that.

Teagasc admitted over a year ago that they had not allowed for calf price in their dairy calculation 🤣🤣🤣🤣 FFS, who is fooling who.

I bought my farm, at forty year's of age. It's was an investment/livestyle decision. Am I not entitled to a reward for that. I am very much CBA.

Your business decisions should be based on the same analysis. However most dairy farmers expeo beef farmers to carry an animal to finish at no margin.

SFP no longer gives drystock farmers a profit. Mind it never did. My ilk analysed it sooner than most. WTF should I apologize for that.

The dairy farmer has to accept that the calf is a byproduct just like straw in the tillage system.

amacca

The dairy calf doesn't have to be a by product

if.....IF ....its profitable for a person to buy them and rear them (and that's even if you skimp on the value of your own time / labour cost)

For a lot of them it's not....

Milk replacer if you have to buy it, straw bedding, a bit of decent straw to get the rumen going, a bit of crunch, squeeze and dehorn if necessary, remedies (homemade if possible), equipment (teat feeders, tube at lesst).....all the bits add up before you go feeding twice a day and less people have the time for that

It has to be made attractive if you want a healthy market, there used to be a lot of lads willing to rear a small group and they were the numbers/competition in the market buying.....lads starting off wanting to stock a place and build up numbers without having to put too much money down, farmers buying a couple for the kids as an interest, farmers that traditionally supplemented stock with a group of sucks etc......I'd bet there are less of them now as its getting harder and harder to balance the books or justify it due to the declining quality of the animal...

There's just too much labour involved for the small operator, a lot if these are operating out of pokey sheds and its just too labour intensive with an uncertain or poor outcome and finding stock worth buying off a dairy farm is getting more difficult....they can use their time more profitably.

For a guy thats set up for it the investment is considerable...auto feeders, or a large heater mixer and delivery tubing, crunch/ration by the tonne, sheds, straw vet on speed dial in case a big problem happens with large numbers caching it which means blanket preventative measures etc....the sums don't add up here imo either unless you can offload them early or you can export in large numbers quickly particularly if you cant keep a lid on the cost of inputs

If you take a two year bet on some of these animals after all the time and investment above you might be looking at a sale price of 800/900 if you aren't thinking of finishing.....and if you are it might seem like throwing a lot of good money after bad.

The way I see it there aren't many options

1) dairy farmer accepts the short gestation easy calving progeny as yet another cost of doing business and goes full new Zealand....although without leaving them at the head of the road and prays the boats keep going.....this seems to be the current most popular choice although it may have less than optimal long term consequences for the dairy industry.

2) less palatable, start calving something with beef merit and accept longer gestation and maybe harder calving with associated loss of earning from less liquid milk production and labour/time hassle....tbh I don't think I would do this.....but it might be a more "sustainable" option as a market isn't killed off/a crisis is averted and another drum for the anti farmer nuts to beat isn't as likely to be created.....maybe the silver lining for the early adopters is the calf is worth a lot more if you can prove the merit.

3) powers that be see more and more of it going towards option 1 and start turning the screw on time the calf (or a portion of calves) has to spend on farm of origin as a way of limiting dairy numbers and possibly forcing better quality animals........

4) A short gestation easy calving bull that produces a decent quality calf worth rearing that wont have health problems of some kind.....won't hold my breath as I think its hard to cheat nature and besides if they are all good and they are over produced the price goes down across the board.

5) the industry starts paying a good price for short gestation, narrow runts brought to finish as they have nothing but that to buy......unlikely in the extreme......and the more of the poor quality ones there are the less they will pay for them and the more volume they will get cheap and keep the slaves producing them on life support.....

6) there may be other options but I cant see them being much better ... at least in the short term.

let's face it though the price of everything will be going down if the market is flooded with the poor quality ones and that's not good for dairy or beef.

K.G.

To be honest calves are at their value if you think there is money in buying them there probably was never a better time to do it.what I can't figure out is where do sucking cows now stand if a calf the day its born has a zero value which is the case for most calves now.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940705#Comment_118940705

I think you have a good sized cow going of your milk yield and ai bulls your using, but the drive wholesale for high maintenance figures by lads using ebi has lead to small cows wholesale that breed s**t calves be it beef our dairy....

Calf buyer here, had a group of 20 holstein bullocks that he bought for 20 euro a piece in 2020 they averaged 1550 in the factory last month, he had a batch of he/aa calves that averaged 200 as 3 week old calves that averaged 1350, all animals where on same diet from day one to finish, the drive to breed small "efficent" cows has screwed the beef man, their was also 2 Belgian blue calves of mine in that group and they hung up came to 1700....

You need a good solid 600kgs plus hols/fr cow to produce a beef cross animal that's worth rearing

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942078#Comment_118942078

Excellent post

Siamsa Sessions

We’re seeing the impact of theory versus practise. One the theory side, Teagasc tell dairy farmers that JEX is the future. It is, but only in one narrow type of system.

On the practise side, dairy farmers are left with worthless “beef” calves which are not worth feeding (either by themselves or whoever buys them) because there’s too many calves/cattle/beef in the country already.

Something has to give and there’s only token ideas coming from Teagasc, the co-ops, or Larry Maith an Fear. Sexed semen, dairy-beef index, 20-20 club, etc. are only bullet points on a presentation in a board room.

The current “market” (market = whatever suits the business model of the co-op and beef processor) gets the cheapest milk and cheapest beef possible. Teagasc go so far as to call this “efficient” so they’ll obviously do nothing to change it.

It’s only a matter of time before Primetime broadcasts a Bobby calf investigation. And the above organisations will be hiding under the bed again, with them dirty greedy farmers front and centre as the villains.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942247#Comment_118942247

You have it analysed slightly wrong. The bull is as important as the cow. Those AA/HE calves matured into only 550kg animals as two year olds. The HO bullocks assuming that they graded O- on average ( they were probably a tad off it) were 690 kgs LW. I assuming a 4.7 base price approximately. 150 kg liveweight difference that. As well because he bought them HO calves at that price they were more than likely late season calves ( march born)

It's about 220 grams per day difference in LW gain. HO calves have a low birth weight generally and ate actually easy calving. The quality of the bull used is every bit as important as the cow type. Putting extremely easy calving AA or HE bull's on smaller type cows is as much a reason for calf quality as cow type

Anto_Meath

Just looking at calf prices in Carnaross there, any AAx / Hex sub 50kgs is making €100 or less, any of the over 60kgs are making €150 - €200. Anything at around 80kgs is making up to €300. So if a dairy farmer wants a good price for their beef bred calves they need to be aiming for a 80kg calf at a month old.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942452#Comment_118942452

That’s the exact point Brian and myself made yesterday that started this whole discussion and the point still stands!

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942452#Comment_118942452

The problem with that is when everyone starts doing it ...they won't keep getting a good price.....it'll have a lifetime too.....

There needs to be a balance struck in everything

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942523#Comment_118942523

The calf welfare proposals will bring up the calf quality at marts. 28 days before a calf can be moved and then only two hours transport up to weaning age.

Injuryprone

Will the 28 day rules affect the lads that slaughter them young? Will they legally be able to transport them to the plant?

The other thing I've been surprised with is the amount of frx in the country. Lots of people stung by aax and hex off these in the last few years I'd say

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942078#Comment_118942078

A belter of a post.

Long term it's going to be a serious issue. Inflation has created a serious problem on a number of fronts, value of the cheque in the post being eroded, convergence of payments and the price of inputs.

The beef game is very simple, get as much weight on a carcase as cheap and quick as possible.

The raw produced for calf to beef has really dropped off a cliff, especially with Angus. EBI has driven the weight of cows down. This has a 50% contribution to dropping carcase weight. Factor in a lot of Angus bulls for the dairy herd are bought on 2 factors- Calving ease and reduction of calving interval. This has dropped the weight of the calf, lifetime adg potential of this animal.

A second but silent factor is the amount of cows that are induced from late march and April. This has a serious impact on calf weight, already impacted by a lighter cow and a bulls that shouldn't be let near a cow. I have given up buying calves after fools Day, due to this reason.

A bass says every move thru the mart is taking €50/head of margin, between comission, haulage and the forgotten impact of the move on ADG.

Buying calves to sell as stores is a recipe for going broke. Only way is to take them the whole way or not bother. The impact of future issues around welfare and shipping ceasing, dairy farmers, teagasc and icbf will have to seriously to look at the decline in calf quality. Have they tracked the beef stock of the model and poster boy farms, the answer is NO.

If dairy farmers had to hold calves to 8 weeks, or 6 months, the attitude to calf quality; which is influenced by both the cow and bull; would change in a heartbeat. There is time to change this decline in quality but it will take courage from farmers to take that step, rather than being pushed

The saying of "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me thrice, shame on both of us" we are at the stage of fooling 3 times,

If you want to sell calves produce what the potential customers want. It's a bit like having a container of typewriters to sell at the moment. Nobody, bar a very very very small amount of people want them

Just my views on why we have a drop off in calf rearers over the past few years

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942630#Comment_118942630

There is a cohort of larger dairy farmers who see calf slaughter as an answer to.tjis issue. My understanding is that 28 day's will be the minimum age at which a calf can be transported anywhere.

Calf slaughter however is becoming a no-no with indications that processors will be reluctant to take milk from such farms. It's already happening in the UK.

The real pressure on calf prices will start when calf export comes under pressure.

K.G.

If dairy farmers turned out all u grade calves the margin would still be the same due to the structure of the Irish beef industry. Afew processors have complete control of the whole thing and then on farm there is too many at it and too much inefficiency s.cattle fed with small bags,bale silage,round feeders,poor calf rearing and losses and the worst of them all the mart.any animal going through mart is nearly a 100 euro a head cost by time transport and time and fees are taken into account.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942862#Comment_118942862

Beef price will always be variable as to milk price. Grading and DW is the comparison to Solids% and litres. If you are going out to buy incalf heifers I bet you wouldn't buy the ones @4000l and 3.2%p and 3.5%BF.

A better grading animal will carry more DW and will be more efficient to put on ADG. Ex dairy here, now Suckler and calf to Beef. Dairy farmers need to wake up urgently to the issue of calf quality. Otherwise the home market will not be there, we can see it dwindling.

Not having a go at you KG, don't expect a heap of U and R grade cattle, O's that would carry weight is where the common ground is. This weight issue is down to the cow being bred and the quality of mop up bulls running cows, each of these contribute, but both together multiply the issue