Calf prices 2022

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941171#Comment_118941171

Agree totally with you on KYA bull, all for easy runt calving and the Angus breeders went mad to breed them, now they are loosing ground to aubrac and speckled parks, and what are they going to breed from the KYA females only more runts. As for calves selling from 5 to 20 euros they are only screws and that is rob for them, if the dairy man is not happy with this price he should rear them himself to slaughter and show lads how to do it properly. The big plus is the dam on the board which now dictates the trade.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940957#Comment_118940957

Over the last 2years I finished 65+/-5 cattle. So suddenly I control the market. I do not claim Saint hood, but neither do I control the market. I will protect or increase my margin if at all possible. I am developing a sweet spot. Time input V reward.

At present dairy farmers look at calf price V costs. Why am I not entitled to look at the same cost benefit analysis.

On a 70 acre farm I finish 60 cattle. I am trying to achieve a 300/head margin is that too much to expect. I will never apologize for that.

Teagasc admitted over a year ago that they had not allowed for calf price in their dairy calculation 🤣🤣🤣🤣 FFS, who is fooling who.

I bought my farm, at forty year's of age. It's was an investment/livestyle decision. Am I not entitled to a reward for that. I am very much CBA.

Your business decisions should be based on the same analysis. However most dairy farmers expeo beef farmers to carry an animal to finish at no margin.

SFP no longer gives drystock farmers a profit. Mind it never did. My ilk analysed it sooner than most. WTF should I apologize for that.

The dairy farmer has to accept that the calf is a byproduct just like straw in the tillage system.

amacca

The dairy calf doesn't have to be a by product

if.....IF ....its profitable for a person to buy them and rear them (and that's even if you skimp on the value of your own time / labour cost)

For a lot of them it's not....

Milk replacer if you have to buy it, straw bedding, a bit of decent straw to get the rumen going, a bit of crunch, squeeze and dehorn if necessary, remedies (homemade if possible), equipment (teat feeders, tube at lesst).....all the bits add up before you go feeding twice a day and less people have the time for that

It has to be made attractive if you want a healthy market, there used to be a lot of lads willing to rear a small group and they were the numbers/competition in the market buying.....lads starting off wanting to stock a place and build up numbers without having to put too much money down, farmers buying a couple for the kids as an interest, farmers that traditionally supplemented stock with a group of sucks etc......I'd bet there are less of them now as its getting harder and harder to balance the books or justify it due to the declining quality of the animal...

There's just too much labour involved for the small operator, a lot if these are operating out of pokey sheds and its just too labour intensive with an uncertain or poor outcome and finding stock worth buying off a dairy farm is getting more difficult....they can use their time more profitably.

For a guy thats set up for it the investment is considerable...auto feeders, or a large heater mixer and delivery tubing, crunch/ration by the tonne, sheds, straw vet on speed dial in case a big problem happens with large numbers caching it which means blanket preventative measures etc....the sums don't add up here imo either unless you can offload them early or you can export in large numbers quickly particularly if you cant keep a lid on the cost of inputs

If you take a two year bet on some of these animals after all the time and investment above you might be looking at a sale price of 800/900 if you aren't thinking of finishing.....and if you are it might seem like throwing a lot of good money after bad.

The way I see it there aren't many options

1) dairy farmer accepts the short gestation easy calving progeny as yet another cost of doing business and goes full new Zealand....although without leaving them at the head of the road and prays the boats keep going.....this seems to be the current most popular choice although it may have less than optimal long term consequences for the dairy industry.

2) less palatable, start calving something with beef merit and accept longer gestation and maybe harder calving with associated loss of earning from less liquid milk production and labour/time hassle....tbh I don't think I would do this.....but it might be a more "sustainable" option as a market isn't killed off/a crisis is averted and another drum for the anti farmer nuts to beat isn't as likely to be created.....maybe the silver lining for the early adopters is the calf is worth a lot more if you can prove the merit.

3) powers that be see more and more of it going towards option 1 and start turning the screw on time the calf (or a portion of calves) has to spend on farm of origin as a way of limiting dairy numbers and possibly forcing better quality animals........

4) A short gestation easy calving bull that produces a decent quality calf worth rearing that wont have health problems of some kind.....won't hold my breath as I think its hard to cheat nature and besides if they are all good and they are over produced the price goes down across the board.

5) the industry starts paying a good price for short gestation, narrow runts brought to finish as they have nothing but that to buy......unlikely in the extreme......and the more of the poor quality ones there are the less they will pay for them and the more volume they will get cheap and keep the slaves producing them on life support.....

6) there may be other options but I cant see them being much better ... at least in the short term.

let's face it though the price of everything will be going down if the market is flooded with the poor quality ones and that's not good for dairy or beef.

K.G.

To be honest calves are at their value if you think there is money in buying them there probably was never a better time to do it.what I can't figure out is where do sucking cows now stand if a calf the day its born has a zero value which is the case for most calves now.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940705#Comment_118940705

I think you have a good sized cow going of your milk yield and ai bulls your using, but the drive wholesale for high maintenance figures by lads using ebi has lead to small cows wholesale that breed s**t calves be it beef our dairy....

Calf buyer here, had a group of 20 holstein bullocks that he bought for 20 euro a piece in 2020 they averaged 1550 in the factory last month, he had a batch of he/aa calves that averaged 200 as 3 week old calves that averaged 1350, all animals where on same diet from day one to finish, the drive to breed small "efficent" cows has screwed the beef man, their was also 2 Belgian blue calves of mine in that group and they hung up came to 1700....

You need a good solid 600kgs plus hols/fr cow to produce a beef cross animal that's worth rearing

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942078#Comment_118942078

Excellent post

Siamsa Sessions

We’re seeing the impact of theory versus practise. One the theory side, Teagasc tell dairy farmers that JEX is the future. It is, but only in one narrow type of system.

On the practise side, dairy farmers are left with worthless “beef” calves which are not worth feeding (either by themselves or whoever buys them) because there’s too many calves/cattle/beef in the country already.

Something has to give and there’s only token ideas coming from Teagasc, the co-ops, or Larry Maith an Fear. Sexed semen, dairy-beef index, 20-20 club, etc. are only bullet points on a presentation in a board room.

The current “market” (market = whatever suits the business model of the co-op and beef processor) gets the cheapest milk and cheapest beef possible. Teagasc go so far as to call this “efficient” so they’ll obviously do nothing to change it.

It’s only a matter of time before Primetime broadcasts a Bobby calf investigation. And the above organisations will be hiding under the bed again, with them dirty greedy farmers front and centre as the villains.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942247#Comment_118942247

You have it analysed slightly wrong. The bull is as important as the cow. Those AA/HE calves matured into only 550kg animals as two year olds. The HO bullocks assuming that they graded O- on average ( they were probably a tad off it) were 690 kgs LW. I assuming a 4.7 base price approximately. 150 kg liveweight difference that. As well because he bought them HO calves at that price they were more than likely late season calves ( march born)

It's about 220 grams per day difference in LW gain. HO calves have a low birth weight generally and ate actually easy calving. The quality of the bull used is every bit as important as the cow type. Putting extremely easy calving AA or HE bull's on smaller type cows is as much a reason for calf quality as cow type

Anto_Meath

Just looking at calf prices in Carnaross there, any AAx / Hex sub 50kgs is making €100 or less, any of the over 60kgs are making €150 - €200. Anything at around 80kgs is making up to €300. So if a dairy farmer wants a good price for their beef bred calves they need to be aiming for a 80kg calf at a month old.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942452#Comment_118942452

That’s the exact point Brian and myself made yesterday that started this whole discussion and the point still stands!

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942452#Comment_118942452

The problem with that is when everyone starts doing it ...they won't keep getting a good price.....it'll have a lifetime too.....

There needs to be a balance struck in everything

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942523#Comment_118942523

The calf welfare proposals will bring up the calf quality at marts. 28 days before a calf can be moved and then only two hours transport up to weaning age.

Injuryprone

Will the 28 day rules affect the lads that slaughter them young? Will they legally be able to transport them to the plant?

The other thing I've been surprised with is the amount of frx in the country. Lots of people stung by aax and hex off these in the last few years I'd say

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942078#Comment_118942078

A belter of a post.

Long term it's going to be a serious issue. Inflation has created a serious problem on a number of fronts, value of the cheque in the post being eroded, convergence of payments and the price of inputs.

The beef game is very simple, get as much weight on a carcase as cheap and quick as possible.

The raw produced for calf to beef has really dropped off a cliff, especially with Angus. EBI has driven the weight of cows down. This has a 50% contribution to dropping carcase weight. Factor in a lot of Angus bulls for the dairy herd are bought on 2 factors- Calving ease and reduction of calving interval. This has dropped the weight of the calf, lifetime adg potential of this animal.

A second but silent factor is the amount of cows that are induced from late march and April. This has a serious impact on calf weight, already impacted by a lighter cow and a bulls that shouldn't be let near a cow. I have given up buying calves after fools Day, due to this reason.

A bass says every move thru the mart is taking €50/head of margin, between comission, haulage and the forgotten impact of the move on ADG.

Buying calves to sell as stores is a recipe for going broke. Only way is to take them the whole way or not bother. The impact of future issues around welfare and shipping ceasing, dairy farmers, teagasc and icbf will have to seriously to look at the decline in calf quality. Have they tracked the beef stock of the model and poster boy farms, the answer is NO.

If dairy farmers had to hold calves to 8 weeks, or 6 months, the attitude to calf quality; which is influenced by both the cow and bull; would change in a heartbeat. There is time to change this decline in quality but it will take courage from farmers to take that step, rather than being pushed

The saying of "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me thrice, shame on both of us" we are at the stage of fooling 3 times,

If you want to sell calves produce what the potential customers want. It's a bit like having a container of typewriters to sell at the moment. Nobody, bar a very very very small amount of people want them

Just my views on why we have a drop off in calf rearers over the past few years

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942630#Comment_118942630

There is a cohort of larger dairy farmers who see calf slaughter as an answer to.tjis issue. My understanding is that 28 day's will be the minimum age at which a calf can be transported anywhere.

Calf slaughter however is becoming a no-no with indications that processors will be reluctant to take milk from such farms. It's already happening in the UK.

The real pressure on calf prices will start when calf export comes under pressure.

K.G.

If dairy farmers turned out all u grade calves the margin would still be the same due to the structure of the Irish beef industry. Afew processors have complete control of the whole thing and then on farm there is too many at it and too much inefficiency s.cattle fed with small bags,bale silage,round feeders,poor calf rearing and losses and the worst of them all the mart.any animal going through mart is nearly a 100 euro a head cost by time transport and time and fees are taken into account.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942862#Comment_118942862

Beef price will always be variable as to milk price. Grading and DW is the comparison to Solids% and litres. If you are going out to buy incalf heifers I bet you wouldn't buy the ones @4000l and 3.2%p and 3.5%BF.

A better grading animal will carry more DW and will be more efficient to put on ADG. Ex dairy here, now Suckler and calf to Beef. Dairy farmers need to wake up urgently to the issue of calf quality. Otherwise the home market will not be there, we can see it dwindling.

Not having a go at you KG, don't expect a heap of U and R grade cattle, O's that would carry weight is where the common ground is. This weight issue is down to the cow being bred and the quality of mop up bulls running cows, each of these contribute, but both together multiply the issue

mr.stonewall

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118942862#Comment_118942862

Wouldn’t like to be selling calves/ animals in your local mart at 100 euro a head cost, bit of realty here about how farmers operate would be no harm .

Mooooo

All farmers should rightly be looking at their margin and what they can make on any given year and let that determine what they pay. So if calf prices are low so be it.

Increase in dairy herd has obviously increased the number of calves and dynamic is changing but to say calves are a by product and that's the reason they should be low is disingenuous imo. There is more than that at play. Part of the issue is that enough farmers aren't looking at their margin, some are happy to keep the sfp, others are propping up farms via off farm work and in reality by doing so they subsidising the factory with below cost stock.

Mooooo

Calves poor in bandon. 80 for aa bull 70 and 60 for strong fr bulls. Calves the same weight made above and below that then so can depend on whos looking at the screen

whelan2

Sold a few out of the yard yesterday nice whitehead heifer 150, 3 Angus heifers 120,100 and 80.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118944819#Comment_118944819

Just looked at Killmallock sale yesterday. Strong Fr bull calves 5 weeks old 110 euro. Hereford and AA bull calves 16 days 140-170. If they are 4-5 weeks old 250-350 euro

BBX's seemed to be struggling.

Anto_Meath

Noticed the BBx in Carnaross yesterday were making in the €150 - €200 range unless they were top quality. What is the reason in the decline in the BBx I wonder, are lads fearing that BBs are been used to hide the JE breading?

I bought some last year and I am happy enough with them now. There was 1 lad had a bit of Je in him and towards the back end of last year you could see it in him. But now after the winter it sees to have left him again, he is a little bit smaller than his mates but he is a bit better shaped so while I would class the majority of them in the R- /R= grade he is more a R+. I would definitely prefer to be buying BBx at the current prices over the SPx which I really cant understand the money they are making. But I can't buy anything at the minute due to been restricted.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945489#Comment_118945489

I saw that pen of BBx and they were from poor to average to 2 with a bit of shape. The SPx are been used by dairy farmers with cross bred cows to disguise JE/JEx breeding. IMO the only thing they have going for them is their striking colours which is attracting people to them. The reality is most are narrow and fine boned.

older by the day

So breeding season will be starting again. And we will have to sell calves again next year. What will we breed for a good beef calf to sell next spring. The Hereford and Angus are under pressure. Help is scarce remember and we don't want to use the jack too often.

Mooooo

Used an AA ai for cows, have had 5 cows with paralysis. Whn a decent bull calf then only makes 80 euro in this part of country i dunno what the answer is

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118946813#Comment_118946813

Montbeliarde bull bought for replacements. And I've an Angus for beef.

Cow shape means more to the calf than the bull.

Got on well with the montys in the past. Oldest cow in the herd 16yo is a monty cross in a spring calving herd.

Gone back to the future.

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118945489#Comment_118945489

BBx as stores are hard sold in this part of the world, you'd be better off with an equivalent HEX or AAx as the buyer's just don't like them. I'd imagine it's the same in other area's and I'd consider €200 to be a good price for them as sucks unless stronger than average. They always seem to look the business as calves but seldom grow into the class of animal you'd expect.

As for the Speckle parks I've never seen the attraction to them tbh, as Base said above there usually narrow and light in bone. There sort of like an AAx only worse and tbh I don't think I've ever seen one either suckler or dairy bred that I'd consider better than average quality . The markings and novelty factor are the biggest factors I'd imagine. I'd prefer an Irish moiled or a SHx tbh.

mr.stonewall

@older by the day aubrac. Easy calving and able to put on weight. If you have farmer buyers, they are an option