Microsoft buys Activision-Blizzard

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497596#Comment_118497596

Yep, as much as people are trying to equate Sony and MS as having the same strategy of acquisition, they clearly don't. Sony simply couldn't afford to for one thing. But Sony's studios, pretty much without exception, were either entirely built up internally or were very close partners who worked on original IP in conjunction with Sony then ended up being brought on board.

Both Sony and MS are guilty of paying for timed exclusivity from third parties, which is a poor anti-consumer practice, but it only ever has short term impact and is nothing like as serious as what MS is doing recently.

Microsoft have tried for three console generations to build up their own portfolio but have pretty much failed. Like you, Forza is the only first party game of theirs that I really enjoy, and we're clearly not alone as console sales have put them a distant third behind both Japanese consoles for some time. Microsoft have clearly decided they need a change in strategy recently hand have started to take the approach of buying out big, well established independent publishers with a long history of multiplatform support, effectively paying to remove those games from competitor platforms.

Of course gamepass is the saving grace, as these games aren't just being removed from other platforms but are being given "for free" to xbox owners (as long as you keep giving MS 15 quid a month for continued access)

Gamepass has been great, my Series X gets close to half of my console gaming time now, which is a stark contrast to the my xbox one up to a couple of years ago which mostly gathered dust. But there are limitations to what you find on gamepass. There's stuff like the upcoming Hitman Trilogy - an absolutely fantastic game that I put a lot of time into on PS5 last year - which appears about a year or more after the traditional release. Games of this quality couldn't fund their development on gamepass alone and need to sell as full retail products. Games like Yakuza, FIFA etc also come under this category. All the Bethesda games that got dumped on the service after the acquisition fall into this category too, as will the first set of Activision stuff. In a gamepass only world however, I just don't think most of these games could be sustained.

The second category are indie and smaller scale games, which gamepass has been great for so far, but time will tell how much room there will be for these games as the pass gets more loaded with COD and the like, and whether it can remain a viable business for an indie dev in the long term.

The third category is the interesting one, the first party games like Forza and Halo, now joined by future Bethesda and Activision Blizzard stuff. There are certainly some quality games here, but also a clear trend to further monetization. In Forza you can buy a VIP pass which doubles the rewards for races and completely changes the game economy, and you're regularly bombarded with as for new car packs in game. Flight Simulator is packed to the brim with add ons to purchase. Halo has solid gameplay mechanics but a pretty lacklustre campaign and is setting itself up as a live service game, something Squenix got torn to shreds for with Avengers but is more palatable for Halo since it's "free"

It feels to me that this is all headed down the same path as mobile games went down. What was once an exciting new platform filled with promise and innovation, saw prices drive down and down when people started releasing 59c games and even free games, to the point that the quality stuff could no longer compete and the whole platform became overwhelmed with microtransaction loaded grifts using tricks to keep you logging in and that's what all developers have to do to compete. A future world where Microsoft have acquired half the publishers in the world and none of them are competing for sales anymore and instead competing for gamepass eyeballs and in game transactions doesn't sound like one that's necessarily great for gamers.

Console and PC Gaming isn't going to get inundated with cheap trash the same way mobile did. Relax.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497953#Comment_118497953

I don't think the point is that games will end up the same as mobile games, but rather that they're kinda going down the same kind of path where the sales of the game become largely irrelevant, and instead the profits of the game comes from alternate revenue such as microtransactions, battlepasses, lootboxes etc. It's already happening a lot anyway, but when you consider the cash cows CoD & Overwatch already are, that's only likely to continue and could become as prevelant in other games/franchises as the profits from actual games sales is now gone.

There's the money MS will make from Gamepass which will cover a lot of it, but the operational cost of Gamepass (including the deals they do with other third party studios to have their games on Gamepass) also has to be taken into account. MS will also have to make back the money they spent on ActiBlizz/Zenimax et al.

It's less the idea of gaming being inundated with cheap trash like mobile gaming, but rather the further monetisation within the game to replace the purchase of the game.

I also think to some degree that the monetisation of some of the more popular games will be used to offset the lack of monetisation of other games, where they might want to develop and offer single-player narrative-driven games like most of Playstation's main exclusives in order to make Xbox a more attractive proposal to players of those types of games.

Stone Deaf 4evr

I know people worry about indies suffering through game pass, but in the last year alone, I played and mostly completed

Lonely Mountains,

Outer Wilds,

Artful Escape

What Remains of Edith Finch

Carrion,

and likely one or two more - all games that I 100% wouldn't have paid for, so whatever cut the devs got from my activity, its more than they would have gotten otherwise.

Also, my GP ultimate expire last week, and using codes from cd keys, I was able to resub until february 2025 for the sum of €151.13 , a saving of about €326 over the per month price. - thats less than the price of two new releases from the Sony Store.

Personally I find it easier to swallow dlc and in game purchases on game pass because I don't feel like I've paid €80 for the game I also find it very easy to just ignore these cosmetics and add-ons as theyre really not important for the game.

The only extras I've ever bought is a COD battlepass, as a fan I feel it gives the game a better competitive edge and targets to aim for. What a lot of people don't realise is its a one off charge, you don't pay €10 every month because as part of completing the game pass (even partially completing it) you win enough credit for another battlepass.

johnny_ultimate

There's no doubt Game Pass is good for some indies, mainly those with publishers that can negotiate a better deal from Microsoft (such as Annapurna, Raw Fury, Devolver or No More Robots). But a) Microsoft have final control over what indies do and do not make it onto Game Pass, which creates a 'walled garden' and b) a subscription model cannot possibly sustain the full independent game ecosystem. Unfortunately, a lot of the details of Game Pass deals (like PS+) are entirely secretive, so we don't know how much development costs a typical indie studio (especially one without a publisher) could claw back from a GP deal. There's also an issue with players thinking 'oh, it's an indie game, I'll just wait for Game Pass' which could gradually undermine any developers that opt to go the perfectly legitimate normal digital release route.

There's also the quality control problem with Game Pass - we've already seen middling games such as Outriders 'dumped' on Game Pass because publishers know they probably couldn't earn a big playerbase otherwise. That further creates the sense that a lot of games on GP are seen as disposable. Hopefully it doesn't go the Netflix 'quantity over quality' approach - nowhere near that yet.

No doubt GP is a great deal for anyone with Xbox or PC (the Xbox PC app remains a piece of ****, however 😁). But there's definitely uncertainty and concerns about both its sustainability and long-term impact on the rest of the gaming sphere.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498274#Comment_118498274

Again, this is an odd take. Every console is a walled garden.

There is no uncertainty or concerns about Game Pass. There are no concerns about sustainability. There are no concerns about it being a dumping ground. This all comes across a bit like you trying to convince yourself of something.

Game Pass is the future. It is a win for everyone.

Stone Deaf 4evr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498274#Comment_118498274

Just as a quick counter to your comment regarding outriders - in a time when games are often dismissed if they're not 9/10 or 10/10 on review scores, Outriders - very much a solid 7 imo, garnered a much larger audience that it would every have gotten if put out straight to the store, and indeed a lot of folks I know got an awful lot of enjoyment out of it.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497891#Comment_118497891

I saw on twitter that Sony did the exact same thing in the 90s and 00s. And they are still doing it now. Saying Sony's studios were entirely first party doesn't fly when they've only got Santa Monica and the gutted japan studio. All the others were third party acquisitions and it's hard to say they worked closely with Sony because every developer did when the PS1 and PS2 were the only show in town.

This is exactly the same as Sony buying naughty dog, psygnosis, bend studios, insomniac. The difference here is the money being thrown around and how big activision is in comparison.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498337#Comment_118498337

It's very possible to think Game Pass is an outrageously good deal (especially compared to €80 new releases!) and a big part of the future, while also having questions about its limitations (especially as Microsoft pours more and more resources into first-party releases) - that's where I'm at :) Personally I think Netflix-style subscription models have had as many negative impacts as good impacts on the movie / TV landscape, for example, so I just hope the same doesn't happen with games.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498367#Comment_118498367

Perfectly fair and reasonable point, and I shouldn't have just singled out one game! Plenty of room for 7/10 games, definitely not denying that. There's also a sense that when games like Back 4 Blood, Outriders or (post-release) Avengers show up on Game Pass, it's because publishers think they need that audience boost as they couldn't survive on their own. That's potentially a good thing for the very reason you mention there, but also risks making it a bit of a 'flash in the pan' and a lack of confidence in the game. Definitely better for players than it being €60 or whatever though!

Unfortunately, as a lot of the deal details are totally secretive we alas just don't know the finances involved in any of this - although we've seen a public dispute between Square Enix and People Can Fly over Outriders’ financial performance.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498415#Comment_118498415

Well you can pay €60/70 for those games on PlayStation or you can get the exact same game on Game Pass included in your sub.

I know which option is better for the customer and takes most of the risk out of getting the game.

Mitch Connor

the more I think about it, the less likely I personally think it will be that CoD or Overwatch will become Xbox exclusives.

People say you don't spend 70billion to put games on another console, but I think you don't spend 70billion to do that either. The revenue return for doing that, for those two games in particular, just will never make up the math imo. Diablo could go Xbox exclusive, and maybe Warcraft if they bring it to console, but not the two big multi-plat cross-plat FPS titles.

I think we will certainly see them on GP, but for sale on Sony consoles too.

CoD makes huge money, but also currently costs huge money and requires 3 studios working round the clock on it. To take it off Playstation removes not only a huge revenue stream with respect to Playstation players, but also you are taking a chunk out of the Xbox revenue stream for it - the notional allocation of GamePass revenue to it won't sratch the surface. If they release on PS, they get the money from Sony, the have the GP allocation, some Xbox revenue and also the game itself (being a cross-platform multiplayer) is healthier from a player base perspective.

Make as much money as they can, while also providing a huge game to GP subscibers for 'free'. I just don't see the logic otherwise. Halo as their exclusive FPS rather than haviing 3 huge exclusives competing with each other... just feels like it simply doesn't make sense to make CoD or Overwatch exclusive.

At 70billion, i don't think GamePass is the driving force for this deal, and therefor not exclusives either. the money involved is just too big. IMO this is a Microsoft industry play rather than an xbox gaming play. I'd be looking at the mobile and PC aspects of AB (King games, WoW, Starcraft, Diablo) and also point to the key mention of 'meta-verse' in the statement from MS.

I also think we are going to soon see a deal announced regarding the purchase or funding or partnering of VR by MS (for PC and Xbox). I think a partnership with Steam for Index to work with Xbox, and GamePass to be fully supported on SteamDeck is a possibility - or a purchase of HTC Vive.

Retr0gamer

What I really don't want to happen but it's inevitably going to happen is that a game will appear on gamepass exclusively and then 2 year later is taken off the service because license deal expire and there's no way to ever play that game again.

Gamepass is something that I would have loved when I was 8-18 years old but I've such a library now that I can't keep up with new releases. Gamepass at the moment is basically a load of games I either already own or have no intention of playing. And if there is one I want to play I don't really like not playing it in my own time and having the threat of it being removed from the service. It already happens to me all the time on netflix, they took Call the Midwife off the service recently while I was watching it (don't laugh, it's a great show) and it's happened plenty of other times.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498452#Comment_118498452

for that to be the case games would have to come exclusively to GamePass, which hasn't happened yet as far as I know and I wouldn't think it inevitable

Skerries

Mal-Adjusted

To be fair, Gamepass needs to be a walled garden, otherwise we could end up with what happened to Steam in the past five to eight years, a dumping ground for low-grade rubbish and asset-flips.

Looking through a list of ips that activision-blizzard own, it hits home that there's a handfull of enormous games and then reams of dead franchises that are worth sweet F all. Are Microsoft really going to revive Gun? or Geometry Wars? or Empire Earth? Even relativley big games like Guitar Hero and Starcraft have more or less seen their hayday come and go, neither series have seen a release since 2015 (unless you want to cound a 2017 starcraft remaster)

Still hoping that we eventually see Master Chief vs Cpt. Price in Killer Instinct 😁

Akrasia

Microsoft doesn't make the Xbox to sell Xboxes, it makes the Xbox to sell xbox games. Buying studios means they can profit even if those games are sold on PlayStation or Nintendo platforms.

That said, I hate the idea of one corporation owning the majority of games studios.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498452#Comment_118498452

I really don't get this complaint or logic.

If a game you like is taken off GamePass (which only happens with 3rd party games) then it does not mean there's no way to ever play that game again.It still exists, is not killed off, and you can then buy it, usually with a discount through Gamepass membership.

Also, you're complaining that gamepass is mostly games you already own (which is not the case for most people) and then ignore all the new games that are scheduled to come to the service.

If those games come from an Xbox owned studio then the game will stay on gamepass just like Netflix produced content stays on the platform.

If people will just look at the games scheduled to come to Gamepass over the next 2 years and compare that to the Playstation model of paying €70-80 for a single game I just do not see how MS can be viewed as anti-competitive or unfaire whilst PS extracting as much money from games as possible is seen as the way to go.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498638#Comment_118498638

even with first party titles, you can still buy Halo, or Forza etc if you want to (most likely because you don't have GamePass).

There are also examples of first party games leaving game pass, one at the least anyway.

Forza 7 was removed from GamePass and the MS Store - but if you already owned the game (physically or purchased via the MS Store you) you could still play it (and download it if the ownership was digital).

https://support.xbox.com/en-IE/help/games-apps/game-closures/forza-motorsport-7-retirement

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498445#Comment_118498445

The same argument about exclusivity was said about the Bethesda deal and people said they won't make games like Starfield, Fallout or Elder Scrolls exclusive to Xbox as they'd miss out on so much revenue but they have.

You could argue the same with Sony in that they're missing out on revenues by restricting Last of Us, Spiderman, God of War etc but they clearly don't feel they are and that it shifts consoles.

In MS's case they're in this for the long haul now and they have unlimited funds and the long term goal is to have more people on the Xbox platform, not just consoles, and making big games exclusive will achieve that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498672#Comment_118498672

Forza 7 was removed from the MS store entirely because licensing ran out. It wasn't just Game Pass.

On CNBC just now, Sony shares have slid 12% amid fears they have a monumental challenge competiting in light of the deal.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498638#Comment_118498638

I'm not saying that is happening. I'm speculating about a future where that can happen and as far as I can see it it's very likely.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498730#Comment_118498730

It may well be challenged, which is not unusual but chances of success are very slim.

After all before this deal MS were the third largest gaming company in the world behind Ten Cent and Sony and that's where they will stay after this deal.

Vicxas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498730#Comment_118498730

They're still second, behind Tencent. The acquisition only puts Microsoft third. Think about that. All that, for third.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498689#Comment_118498689

Yes, but the money side of the arguement is 10times higher in this instance, plus the likely much higher dev costs involved too. The arguement is surely not a one size fits all argument - so i think the 70billion starting price plus the running costs of the various studios has to be taken into account, and I don't see GamePass subs increasing to a level that would have the math making any sort of sense.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498691#Comment_118498691

I said it was removed from the Store too, and supplied a link explaining exactly what happened with it.

fact is it was removed (and retro mentioned licence being a reason for removal) so it was pertinent to the conversation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498754#Comment_118498754

Thats as of now based off combined revenues and I think they are only 3 billion behind Sony, which is chump change.

That will also change when COD etc will either be exclusive on game pass or as good as free versus €80 on Playststion. I've no doubt they will the exclusivity route. I mean the aim is to be bigger than Sony after all.

But you are dead right, it shows just how far behind Xbox was. And even after this I would argue we still need to see some new original blockbuster IPs on xbox, which I'm sure are in development but probably years away or even a console generation away.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498772#Comment_118498772

It will make sense when a GamePass app starts coming to more platforms such as Smart TVs and even Playstation ( I would not rule that out) and the subscriptions will sky rocket. It's not just about consoles.

They've just confrmed they now have 25 million subs. Let's say that earns €12 a month. This delivers €300m a month or €3.6bn a year.

I think in 5 -10 years time they could easily have 100m subs which will deliver €18bn per year. Serious money and that excludes other revenue streams.My numbers are guess work and maybe on the conservative side.

They can easily afford to keep Cod Exclusive to achieve their long term goals.