Microsoft buys Activision-Blizzard

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498776#Comment_118498776

All Forza games are removed after a period of time. There is no conspiracy here.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498638#Comment_118498638

It's anti-competitive because it restricts consumer choice. Consumers are always better off when there's a healthy market for companies to compete in. Would gamepass even exist if it wasn't for Sony? They started the idea of a subscription service with PS+ which MS then came up with GwG and evolved into Gamepass. Without competition there would have been no incentive for it. From a business point of view I also think it's anti-competitive as the funds used to buy these publishers comes from a completely different area of the business, which unevens the playing field further.

Gamepass currently represents great value, definitely. But the more publishers and IP they can buy and the greater the market share they get then the less they have to worry about providing value to the customer. We're not there yet, we might never get there, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility to think that in the long term it will be worse for consumers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498776#Comment_118498776

Ah, so you did.

awec

I really don't get where this sudden concern about a lack of competition is coming from. There will still be competition. Sony still has ALL of it's exclusives, the same exclusives that have been shoved down Xbox's throat for years now. They can still create new IP. They can still develop new studios, according to this thread they're excellent at this as their growth has apparently been entirely organic without buying up studios.

I am betting that most of the big Activision titles will still be available on Playstation at the exact same price as they are today. Consumers will still have the exact same choice as they had this time last week, you will still be able to pay 80 quid for the new COD on Playstation.

The big difference is that your mate with an Xbox will be getting it for free with their subscription.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498807#Comment_118498807

But that revenue from GamePass has to be paying for SO MUCH, so i still don't see where the math is going.

First party titles on Xbox are going to have taken a huge hit on base revenue in comparison to previous sales - I would assume this, I don't have figures to back it up - but I can't imagine they are actually selling more (or a high proportion) Forza than previous entries.

From those, admittidly large, GP numbers they need to fund all the various studios in the same way they would have been funded by sales - while also (maybe) trying to claw back some of the 78billion they have spent on Bethesda and AB, and whatever they have paid to third parties for titles on GP.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498846#Comment_118498846

I don't think we'll ever reach the point where it's just one company. Microsoft aren't the only company with deep pockets and with the potential revenue Games as a Service presents, there will always be multiple companies making a play for it.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498846#Comment_118498846

Well you really are clutching at straws.

Anyhow GwG still exists and is a separate model and concept to Game Pass. PS+ os different concept to Game Pass.

So you think Gamepass only exits due to Sony? What about Playstation only existing because of Sega or Nintendo in the 90s. It's a strange argument

Also, Sony are now developing their own version of Gamepass due to what Xbox have done and fear of the traction they have gained.

So you are right about competition creating more consumer choice, as soon gamers will be able to choose which subscription choice they prefer.

I'm convinced the the subscription model is a better deal for gamers than having to pay €70 for each game. I don't see how PS's approach on pricing and exclusivity can be deemed anything but anti-consumer.

Also, your comment about funding is laughable as Sony is a huge conglomerate selling millions of products and you dont' think their headoffice has funded Playstation activities from other parts of the business.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498828#Comment_118498828

I'm not saying it is a conspiracy - just that the removal of first party games from GP has happened, for the reasons it has happened (and in the case used as an example anyone who already owned the game was still able to download/play it). In a conversation about the possibility of games leaving GP and having no possibility to play again it is a valid example to be discussed.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498942#Comment_118498942

It's not that relevant. Even if GP never existed, Forza still gets removed.

If Forza was released on PS, it would also be removed. If it was released on Nintendo, it would also be removed.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498920#Comment_118498920

You underestimate how much money is made from subscription services.

johnny_ultimate

Just on the Forza point, people who own Forza Horizon 3 digitally (myself included) can still download and play the game. However, that doesn't apply to Game Pass players, which is a shame - the lack of any sort of ownership is an issue right across subscription services in all mediums, as the individual is very much reliant on rights remaining with the service provider.

But also important to say MS definitely isn't alone here - delisted games are a big problem with digital storefronts in general (see Sony and Drive Club, to pick one other of several unfortunate examples), just a tad worse again with subscription services.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498920#Comment_118498920

Game Pass generates revenue through subs, and that gamers also spend money within the model as they play more games than normal and therefore but more games and ancilliaries.

Also, development costs will come down as studios share tech and knowledge.

MS have clearly done their maths (who in Ireland says the "math") and they know what they are at. They are clearly confident it will work. They didn't become one of the world's largest companies through bad calculations.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498984#Comment_118498984

It's not massively dissimilar to free to play models, just without the reliance on huge volumes of micro transactions.

Look at EA for example. EA would love if every single one of their customers signed up to EA Play or EA Play Pro instead of buying games individually. It would be better for them.

recyclops

I am almost certain ( not 100% but nearly there) that MS have far better economists crunching the numbers than we can even consider. To say its not sustainable or the maths doesnt add up is bizarre. They know what and why they are making these purchases. I am sure they have a fairly robust plan for what is achievable at 10%, 20%, 30% + success rate of the plan and thats why this is happening.

They dont really care for the same BS little fan wars that console owners do, all they want is subscribers to gamepass and the real answer is kids, look at how big epic is due to fortnite initially and what they have gone on to since. If the kids can only play COD on gamepass then gamepass wins for now, MS just need to make sure they have the next big fad.

Penn

Gamepass can't be making a profit currently, not to offset or fund the recent purchases. 25m Gamepass players worldwide, say an average of 15 quid per month, 12 months a year is 4.5bn quid per year. Even accounting for money earned from those games through mtxs, dlcs, battlepasses etc, the cost of putting so many games on Gamepass, it's almost certainly running at a loss currently. But they have the Microsoft money behind them to cover it, and the long term goal is to have Gamepass on as many devices as possible and more subscriptions, so it'll eventually profit.

zom

"You underestimate how much money is made from subscription services."

People complain they cant afford houses and at the same time they dont realise how subscription based internet businesses rocketed their revenues in last few years.

"Surely if you pay 10 bucks a month is not big deal" thinking - and suddenly we have billions spent in no time...

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498981#Comment_118498981

It doesn't apply to Game Pass because you don't own the game. As far as I'm aware Forza is the only first party game that gets removed and that's because they sign a 5-10 year license with the car manufacturers and once that's up then they can't sell that game anymore.

Can you still buy Gran Turismo 6 on PS3 digitally? I think the more recent one is only out 4 or 5 years so probably no licensing issues yet.

Anyway, you'll get notice that a game is to be removed in X amount of days. If you want to own the game and continue to play then you can buy it at a discount.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498846#Comment_118498846

I don't agree Sony competition lead to GP. This came from Nadella and his Cloud first business model. Xbox had to shift to Cloud first or be shut down. All internally without any credit going to Sony.

Turns out as always, gaming is the forefront of technology and this was not only an easy conversion but really was going there anyway.

This is going to be the same when GP is old news and we're all talking about the Metaverse. It's already started in gaming. My kids first concert was a Marshmellow concert in Fortnite. So it's very easy for a company like Microsoft to put gaming at the forefront of their cloud business. 70 bill, absolutely worth it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498981#Comment_118498981

To be fair, Microsoft tend to give a decent discount to games leaving Game Pass so that you can own them outright.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498954#Comment_118498954

Fine. Ignore the topic of the conversation that was being had and the point that had been made of only third party titles being removed and the initial comment being fear of games being removed from GP for licensing reasons and not playable in any way anymore.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499141#Comment_118499141

But your point ignores that you can just buy the game if you want permanent access.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498914#Comment_118498914

Again, other than the now gutted Japan studio and Santa Monica, all of Sony's studios have been acquisitions of third parties.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499141#Comment_118499141

But everyone knows Forza gets removed 3 or 4 years after release.

If you are a Game Pass customer and you think you'll want to play a 3 or 4 year old Forza game you are free to buy it at any point, for a discount, and you'll then be guaranteed access to it even after it's removed.

This is true for any game. If you want to completely own it you can do so, and at a discounted price.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499156#Comment_118499156

Yes that's my point Retr0gamer. 😉

I was being tongue in cheek.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499060#Comment_118499060

Phil Spencer already confirmed last year that Game Pass as it was then is already making a profit.

https://gamingintel.com/phil-spencer-xbox-game-pass-business-model/#

So these numbers and profits are just going to grow in the future.

I'm amazed that many people here think that Xbox/Microsoft don't know hat they are doing or would pursue a loss making model.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499060#Comment_118499060

Gamepass's plans I'm sure is not just to be playable on Xbox and PC. MS will be looking to extend it to mobile and set top boxes, anything that can stream really.

Even more importantly than profit though is share price and even if they don't make a profit streaming services are a big thing and will send share prices through the roof. It's also why metaverse is being mentioned so much. It has jack **** to do with metaverse but the execs are saying to get the dumb dumb investors on board and send the stock up more. I'm just waiting for a NFT announcement.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498970#Comment_118498970

Yes, as I said in the intial comment, big money.

From that big money they have to fund the original MS studios. The purchased Bethesda studios. the purchased AB studios. and potentially look to claw back the 78billion they have just spent. Netflix had sub revenues of 7.5 billion, with a profit of 1.4 billion in 2021. Do you think MS will be quick to match or even beat those numbers? Even matching those profits you are talking 50 years to break even on the purchases. Maybe they will outstrip Netflix, and also the reality is AB seemed to be hugely profitable themselves - so even a huge dent in their revenues (through not selling on PS) will still keep them hugely profitable and more than self-sustaining as an entire entity. They seem to have had costs of 3 billion or so vs revenue of about 9billion, CoD and Overwatch aren't making huge dents on those numbers themselves I suppose.

Even if they have no intention of breaking even on the purchases I have to imagine the sheer numbers involved now have to force at least a conversation on exclusiveity for the most popular multi-player titles under their ownership.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499155#Comment_118499155

No it doesn't.

I SAID EXACTLY THAT.

I was not arguing that games are disappearing from GP and being rendered unplayable.

I was actually arguing against that point - by stating that even while first party titles had left GP (for reasons stated) they were still playable (and downloadable) by people who already owned them. And I had also already said that even first party titles on GP can be purchased through the store, same as third party titles.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118499197#Comment_118499197

Do I think Microsoft will be quick to match or beat Netflix's 1.4 billion profit? Is that what you're asking me?