Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761897#Comment_121761897

Genuinely unbelievable if this really is based on Policy Exchange whining about 3 women with records who happen to be trans, out of 9 million members. Stop the presses 0.000003% of Parkrun members are gaming the non-competitive system.

16 female records were held by males identifying as female.

Trans-identifying males had taken "first female" position more than 150 times.

Since that's more than five times more records, and 50 times more first female results than you referred to in your post, does it change your mind?

Or was it just a disingenuous and cynical attempt to "calm down dear" objectors to begin with? 💋

Vic_08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121772819#Comment_121772819

Of course it doesn't change their minds, the "it's only a few, not worth bothering about" is just the argument of last resort to be wheeled out when the obvious logic chasm in the rest of the house of cards gets too difficult to defend.

Everything starts small, if men taking over women's sports is not stamped out and barred in every level it will, as it already is in some places, quickly become a viable path for any also-ran male athlete with no shame to steal their way to glory.

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121773357#Comment_121773357

Exactly. It might just be a few at the highest level right now, but it's happening from the bottom up so it won't stay that way for long. Here in the US many high school spots, records, and championships in female events are being taken by males. That's losing females scholarships and the ability to compete at college and elite level. If it continues, actual females will be a minority in women's sports at some point. but sure who cares about that once we don't hurt some male person's feelings 🙄

Hamsterchops

Meanwhile in the UK, the threat to women's sport continues . . . .

https://youtu.be/ef8CuEK3XD4?si=16CQWFLgeCOOWn7O

Nice friendly informative interview confirming that sport is for everyone, men, women, trans, other, everybody is welcome to take part and enjoy sport from grass roots level upwards.Only stipulation being that the women's category in particular should remain for women only, due to human biological differences between the two sexes. She says it all pretty much ...

MilkyToast

The Guardian's sports journalist, Jonathan Liew - Sportswriter of the year 2021 - on how it would be really awesome, actually, if women's sports were dominated by trans-identifying males.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121781400#Comment_121781400

He's clearly an idiot now.

Women have to be sacrificed in order for the tiny minority of people to be inspired.

Jack Daw

The world has become so twisted that the exact same type of people who find it horrifying to interfere with the natural growth cycle of animals in the name of agriculture think giving children puberty blockers is a good idea.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783281#Comment_121783281

Women have to be sacrificed in order for the tiny minority of people trans-identifying males to be inspired.

FTFY

There is no phenomenon of multiple men's competitions being won or records being smashed by trans-identifying females ("transmen" to believers). A fact consistently and conveniently ignored by trans rights extremists.

Gussoe

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but a man identifying as a woman was on a high school basketball team, they basically man-handled the other team, injuring 3 players. Eventually the other team forfeited the game.

Maybe it's not high school, I don't know.

https://twitter.com/Riley_Gaines_/status/1759651078566498435?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1759651078566498435%7Ctwgr%5Ec3c8923f7e96784d7eff3892c996276bc43f8ab4%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outkick.com%2Fsports%2Friley-gaines-domestic-abuse-trans-athlete-injures-females

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793481#Comment_121793481

Red herring as this in no way relates to domestic abuse.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793486#Comment_121793486

You conveniently skip over the fact that it happened during a sporting event though...you go ahead and keep your head in the sand there.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793615#Comment_121793615

Not skipping over it at all. The fact that it was at a public sporting event doesn’t therefore amount to being domestic abuse. Cop on.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793627#Comment_121793627

Christ almighty, you are totally ignoring the fact that 3 women were injured by a male at a sporting event. The fact the tweet mentions domestic abuse does not mean you hold onto that for dear life.

Do you think it is right that 3 females were injured by a male? Never mind domestic abuse, just answer that.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793627#Comment_121793627

I think you need to cop on for not acknowledging the fact that it is not right or fair for a biological male to be playing with or against women and girls in a competitive arena. Cycling, swimming, basketball, football weightlifting or boxing, whatever the sport, men & women are separated for a reason, can you not acknowledge & respect that?

mjsc1970

They won't

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793627#Comment_121793627

No, but women shouldnt be expected to be injured by a male during a supposedly female sporting event. And they shouldn't have to forfeit the game cause of it either. Perfect example of what this thread is about - women having to play in unsafe conditions and being forced out of their own sports due to males colonizing it. You just continue to ignore it though

Nermal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793486#Comment_121793486

You've definitely picked out the most important part of the tweet there, haven't you?

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793637#Comment_121793637

Do you have an issue with me commenting on the ridiculous charge of domestic violence in the tweet?

I see the circle-jerking culture warrior brigade has shuffled out of one ridiculous thread into another.

MilkyToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793637#Comment_121793637

Not to state the obvious or anything, but when you have no argument that cannot be resoundingly refuted by a marginally precocious 10 year old, holding onto to tangentials for dear life is pretty much your only available play.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121795586#Comment_121795586

I take issue with you avoiding the main part of the topic completely…almost as if you don’t want to engage or give your opinion on what the tweet was actually about.

El Gato De Negocios

Overheals only possible response relates to the fact that Gaines cited domestic abuse rather than assault. And he will die on that cross and keep repeating it ad nauseam because it is the only thing, the ONLY thing that can be argued against in her tweet. So it has been, so it always will be.

El Gato De Negocios

Never mind the fact that DA generally occurs in a male on female scenario, oh no, that doesnt matter, SHE SAID DOMESTIC ABUSE SO THE TRANSPHOBES ARE WRONG FOR CIRCLING THE WAGONS AND TAKING ISSUE WITH THE INCIDENT!!!!!!

kippy

Whatever about the text of the tweet above, the video is damning. If there were two more similiar incidents the coach did the right thing.

As for the lunatics that think its okay for biological men to compete with biological women in basketball? There won't be many biological women left playing if that logic spreads.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793637#Comment_121793637

I don’t think it’s right that anyone is injured playing sports, regardless of their gender or sex, that goes for both men and women, or males and females, or whatever you prefer yourself. The reality of course is that the risk of injury always exists in contact sports, like basketball.

So when Riley Gaines posts a video clip of a player committing a foul in basketball that they absolutely should have been ejected from the game for (the ref blew the whistle for a foul), her motives for doing so are blatantly obvious. It’s not that she gives a tinkers fcuk about women’s safety in sports either, she simply wants transgender players excluded, and this all started because of her beef with Lia Thomas.

Understandably, given that context, she isn’t interested in posting either about Texas Christian University’s women’s team, who had so many injuries recently they had to have open tryouts -

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/18/1232301937/a-division-one-basketball-team-had-so-many-injuries-it-had-to-hold-open-tryouts

For what it’s worth, and this is just to provide further context - both teams in that clip had already played against each other, and there was no complaints of unfairness, nor is there any complaint about unfairness in this instance. It’s simply that the coach decided to forfeit the game and save his players for the playoffs which were coming up a few days later -

Collegiate Charter School of Lowell Athletic Director Kyle Pelczar told The Daily Item the coach knew about KIPP's transgender player ahead of time and she wasn't the reason they forfeited. 

'No, and Coach (Kevin Ortins) knew going into the game, already, because we had them at home the first game of the year and nothing happened then, so he knew going into the game,' Pelczar said. 

…

'The bench was already depleted going into the game with the 12-player roster having four players unable to play,' said Collegiate Charter School spokesperson Casey Crane.

'When the coach saw three more go down in the first half leaving him with five players, he made the call to end the game early. The upcoming Charter School playoffs were looming, and he needed a healthy and robust bench in four days.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13105605/amp/Trans-basketball-high-school-game-injury-forfeit-Massachusetts.html

Large bottle small glass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796345#Comment_121796345

"The reality of course is that the risk of injury always exists in contact sports, like basketball"

What a disingenuous comment. Going for a walk brings risk as those skydiving.

The degree of risk between all females playing together versus mixed is night and day.

At 48 I'm still playing junior soccer, have played Gaelic and rugby to a decent standard until my 30s. In that combined time of playing and coaching the value and emphasis on aggression and physicality in the contact zone is a huge part of those sports.

Rough **** like me always had a value.

The women's games are completely different in how they play and in their value on aggression and physicality.

I'd still make my county's senior team if I self identified as a woman tomorrow. If I was cnutsish enough to play the way I've always played there would be a lot of women getting hurt. That's playing within the rules and nothing to do with being dirty.

I played tag rugby during the summer. Mixing sexes is a real bad idea, even when non competitive.

Enduro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796345#Comment_121796345

So when Riley Gaines posts a video clip of a player committing a foul in basketball that they absolutely should have been ejected from the game for (the ref blew the whistle for a foul), her motives for doing so are blatantly obvious. It’s not that she gives a tinkers fcuk about women’s safety in sports either, she simply wants transgender players excluded, and this all started because of her beef with Lia Thomas.

Isn't it lucky that a Female swimmer like Riley Gaines has a man like you to explain to her that she doesn't give a fcuk about her own safety in the sport she participates in? She'd be lost without you. Thank god we have men like you in the world to keep us all on the right track.

people should not be unjustifiably discriminated against on grounds that are immutable characteristics such as sex and gender

Are you still standing over your claim that gender is an immutable characteristic? You have yet to say whether you made a mistake with that claim, or whether you actually think that gender is immutable. Which is it?

You posted that on this thread. Can you please engage in the discussion about this area which you yourself started.

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796345#Comment_121796345

I don’t think it’s right that anyone is injured playing sports, regardless of their gender or sex, that goes for both men and women, or males and females, or whatever you prefer yourself. The reality of course is that the risk of injury always exists in contact sports, like basketball.

I'm guessing that's what you're going to say every time this happens.

So when Riley Gaines posts a video clip of a player committing a foul in basketball that they absolutely should have been ejected from the game for (the ref blew the whistle for a foul), her motives for doing so are blatantly obvious. It’s not that she gives a tinkers fcuk about women’s safety in sports either, she simply wants transgender players excluded, and this all started because of her beef with Lia Thomas.

The truth is you don't have a clue about Riley Gaines' motivation. It's not just about women's safety in sport. It's about fairness as well. Obviously, you'd prefer she just shut up rather than cause problems for trans males in women's sport.

And what makes you think that was even a foul? I've seen some comments saying that it was a "normal fight for possession of the ball". It's only the physical mismatch that made it look like foul play. I'm no basketball expert but I've certainly seen more aggressive competition for a ball that wasn't a foul.

While injuries might be common enough in basketball, if what happened was that after the same player floored two other players, people starting recording him, and then this happened. That is noteworthy and not explainable in the same terms as some team, who has had a bad run of injuries. What's not in doubt is the statement from the school that the remaining players "expressed concern to him [their coach] about continuing to play. The players feared getting injured and not being able to play in the playoffs". That's not a normal situation in sport. It just isn't.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796579#Comment_121796579

It wasn’t a disingenuous comment, the point I was making is that regardless of a person’s sex or gender I don’t think it’s right for anyone to be injured in sports. It’s an odd way to put it to suggest that anyone thinks it’s right to cause injury to another player in any sport. That’s the point I was making.

That out of the way, you’re obviously not a cnut so the point you’re making that you could be a cnut just doesn’t arise. I get what you mean though, but it doesn’t apply to people who are transgender who are participating or competing in sports with women. Speaking as a similarly rough cnut I no longer have value unless I got a notion to take up Sumo wrestling, and even then I’m pretty sure I’d have my ass handed to me 😂

My days of playing sports competitively are long behind me, though my swimming coaches daughter never ceases to remind me every time we meet up of ‘that time you were wearing speedos and I pulled you out of the pool’. It was over 20 years ago, you’d think she’d have let it go by now 🥵

Yeah I still do coaching and I’m involved with a few clubs and various sports but I don’t really play much, and the last time I played tag rugby was with a few mates after I’d a hip replacement and wanted to take it for a test drive. I wasn’t standing far enough away when my mate sliced the ball and… well, it tested the hips tensile strength anyway, I was just relieved it wasn’t a few inches to the left or she’d have taken out the family jewels 🤨

So yeah, I completely take on board your point that mixing sexes even non-competitively is a bad idea, I don’t agree with it though because the more important factor in that equation is the behaviour and attitude of the players involved, regardless of their sex or gender.

Sure, you could get some absolute brute (my sons 6’4”, wouldn’t hurt a fly, just doesn’t have an aggressive temperament), and then you could get some utter ballbag, or the female equivalent of whatever that is, and they could be an absolute monster, attempting to take out players left, right and centre. In those circumstances the player should be ejected from the field of play given the likelihood that they are going to do damage either to themselves, or to anyone else. It doesn’t mean that all players who share similar physical or physiological characteristics will exhibit similar behaviour and therefore should be prohibited from participating or playing or competing in any sport.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796639#Comment_121796639

The truth is you don't have a clue about Riley Gaines' motivation. It's not just about women's safety in sport. It's about fairness as well. Obviously, you'd prefer she just shut up rather than cause problems for trans males in women's sport.

Riley’s been quite open and vocal about her motivation. But since we’re assuming motivations in any case any it appears obvious to you that I’d rather she shut up, that would require I ever paid her any attention in the first place - quite frankly I have no interest in her opinion, so whether she continues to speak out on the issues involved or not, I’ll still not be interested in whatever she says.

And what makes you think that was even a foul? I've seen some comments saying that it was a "normal fight for possession of the ball". It's only the physical mismatch that made it look like foul play. I'm no basketball expert but I've certainly seen more aggressive competition for a ball that wasn't a foul.

What makes me think it’s a foul is that the referee blew the whistle for a foul, likely it was classed a technical foul, but my eyesight isn’t what it used to be and that video quality is a bit shìt, but there’s nothing wrong with my hearing. I was still able to make out from the video though that it was aggressive and unsportsmanlike behaviour -

https://www.rookieroad.com/basketball/fouls/technical/

While injuries might be common enough in basketball, if what happened was that after the same player floored two other players, people starting recording him, and then this happened. That is noteworthy and not explainable in the same terms as some team, who has had a bad run of injuries. What's not in doubt is the statement from the school that the remaining players "expressed concern to him [their coach] about continuing to play. The players feared getting injured and not being able to play in the playoffs". That's not a normal situation in sport. It just isn't.

My point was that there was fcukall noteworthy about this incident specifically. That reality is a perfectly normal situation in any sport that the players would fear getting injured and wouldn’t be able to play in the more important games. Sure wasn’t it only a few weeks ago that Vera Pauw had to have a word with the Columbian bench about their players being too aggressive, that they all wanted to play in the World Cup so they needed to calm down, it was only a friendly -

https://www.breakingnews.ie/women-world-cup/vera-pauw-ireland-players-feared-for-their-bodies-in-abandoned-colombia-clash-1502684.html

https://extra.ie/2023/07/15/sport/soccernews/ireland-colombia-caracas

Columbians take their football seriously 😂

plodder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796941#Comment_121796941

What makes me think it’s a foul is that the referee blew the whistle for a foul, likely it was classed a technical foul, but my eyesight isn’t what it used to be and that video quality is a bit shìt, but there’s nothing wrong with my hearing. I was still able to make out from the video though that it was aggressive and unsportsmanlike behaviour -

It's beyond my expertise, but we can still discuss whether a ref blowing the whistle was the right decision, presumably?

I'd be interested to hear the views of actual basketball experts on it. He appeared to just pull the ball away from her hands, with no other contact, that I could see. But, I can see why a referee would want to call a foul in this situation as he threw her away like a rag doll basically.

If you google how to play more aggressive basketball, you'll see plenty of material on it. So, aggressive play is not unsportsmanlike per-se.

My point was that there was fcukall noteworthy about this incident specifically. That reality is a perfectly normal situation in any sport that the players would fear getting injured and wouldn’t be able to play in the more important games. Sure wasn’t it only a few weeks ago that Vera Pauw had to have a word with the Columbian bench about their players being too aggressive, that they all wanted to play in the World Cup so they needed to calm down, it was only a friendly -

True. That game was abandoned as well. The same concern exists in the men's game in relation to protection of players from injury in friendlies, and maybe it's happened but I've never heard of a game being abandoned because of it.

Anyhow, you see nothing noteworthy about the incident, but I think most people looking at it, would see the mismatch and I think an honest expert assessment of whether and how it was a foul would be very useful as well. As another poster said, the level of aggression in male contact sports is a very different thing to the level in women's sport. Are we saying now that stronger male players in the women's game will be expected to hold back from heavy contact? Different rules would suggest they should be in different leagues imo.