Overpopulation

John Doe1 · 02-01-2022 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405026#Comment_118405026

Of course, I am a racist, cheers for that.😆 Yeah lets let all 500 million Africans below the poverty line into Europe and see what positive outcomes that will have....you are a genius.

Africa is getting slightly richer and quality of life is getting better hence more children are surviving into adulthood. What is needed is more education and access to to contraception.

Richer countries need to do everything in its power to help Africa become more economically viable which will in turn stop overpopulation and lessen the strain on Europe of the migrant crisis.

Wanderer78 · 02-01-2022 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405122#Comment_118405122

funnily enough, you ll find, the more we consume, the quicker we cause the likelihood of our extinction, you ll also find many of the jobs created from these activities are what graeber called 'bullsh1t jobs'!

Thelonious Monk · 02-01-2022 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405122#Comment_118405122

Honestly are you completely insane? Do you think we can carry on as is, consuming the way we do? Even though resources are finite and we need the life support systems of the planet?

The accuracy of that Don't Look Up film is so scary.

Brucie Bonus · 02-01-2022 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404268#Comment_118404268

i think the PRC's solution.

Glock17 · 02-01-2022 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404735#Comment_118404735

Tbh, I dont understand what point you're making?

The first part of your reply says overpopulation isnt an issue. The second part of your reply says it is?

IMO, anyone that doesnt accept overpopulation has an adverse on the environment is an ill educated clown.

joe40 · 02-01-2022 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405248#Comment_118405248

We're going to get resources from other planets..... That is pure science fiction. A few rich guys flying straight up fo a few miles to get to the edge of our atmosphere is not space exploration.

Wanderer78 · 02-01-2022 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405220#Comment_118405220

has a significant rise in unemployment truly been that disastrous during covid? many ive spoken to on pup have actually never been happier, getting to spend more time with loved ones, and doing what they truly want with their time! theres also evidence to support, many in these so called bullsh1t jobs are in fact deeply unhappy in doing so, leading to all sorts of social dysfunctions and mental health issues!

yes historically with such outcomes, in particular rapidly rising wealth inequality, in which we re now experiencing yet again, would have been 'solved' by conflicts and wars, funnily enough, we re slowly starting to realise, we dont actually have to do the war thing, we can simply just give people money, and try to reduce these inequalities, i.e. no need for the war thingy!

please explain how our trial run of ubi, isnt looking great?

excess consumption is rapidly increasing the likelihood of our extinction!

banie01 · 02-01-2022 3:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405450#Comment_118405450

Population is not equal to population density or poor utilisation of land and resources due to encouraging low-density development. Ireland has a particular issue with low-density development and its poor resource utilisation.

Your comment skirts that link and misinterpets the point spectacularly though, so thinks for highlighting the need for clarification on my part 👍️

jackboy · 02-01-2022 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405551#Comment_118405551

Free money is a fantasy. We have seriously damaged our economy in the last two years and will reap the pain in years to come.

Pa ElGrande · 02-01-2022 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058225433/overpopulation

Whose grandchild are you trying to prevent from being born? Yours or mine?

Wanderer78 · 02-01-2022 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405581#Comment_118405581

what free money, where? how have we damaged our economy?

jackboy · 02-01-2022 3:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405590#Comment_118405590

😂 Are you serious.

Pa ElGrande · 02-01-2022 3:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404955#Comment_118404955

And they tend to follow a certain pattern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_sXxZVPxg8

Wanderer78 · 02-01-2022 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405597#Comment_118405597

very! again, please explain, what free money, and how have we damaged our economy?

dublin49 · 02-01-2022 3:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404836#Comment_118404836

totally agree,imagine a lot of those burnt out house owners in Colorado voted for climate denier Trump.We will always retain the ability to ignore threats that don't seem to directly threaten us until its too late.In general we align our principles with our personal interests,so if we deem climate risk low we are against banning petrol cars ,reducing meat intake ,flights etc ,until our neighbour's roof is blown off or massive coastal flooding nearby and then we miraculously see the light and demand the government take action immediately.

jackboy · 02-01-2022 4:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405609#Comment_118405609

Of course things look great when vast sums of money are printed and just handed out. You do know the consequences of that though I hope.

Hospitality and tourism has been long term damaged. Our debt is now much bigger. Farming is under constant attack. All we have left is the multinationals but now with our corporate tax rates being dismantled the long term prospects for that is uncertain.

We are not going to be in a place where ubi can be considered.

02-01-2022 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404971#Comment_118404971

The problem with that logic is that Africa (just as Asia is doing) still has to industrialise to become competitive on a global scene. Any "poor" or underdeveloped nation will seek to modernize it's infrastructure/economy, which will mean the implementation of industries that produce pollution due to the lesser costs involved (environmental "friendly" tech tends to be expensive).

Then there's the other side of the coin with underdeveloped nations in Africa, where we see agricultural practices which continue to contribute to desertification, contamination of water sources, etc. Education hasn't done much to prevent that from happening, nor have the moves towards modernisation.

The simple fact of the matter is that most areas need to modernise to provide standards of living comparable with Europe, and that will result in serious amounts of pollution, along with the damage to the local environment. Financial penalties will do nothing except to ensure a lasting bitterness towards western nations, because they're essentially making the lives of others worse, due to short sighted initiatives. Just look at the destruction of the textile industries in Africa, due to the export of used clothes by Western nations (into Africa under the guise of charity), ensuring the limitation of African economies, destroying economies in the process.

The entire human race is putting the planet under strain, and will continue to do so. We are a destructive species.

Still, we really need to move away from all these short-sighted and naive feel good gestures, that make little effort to truly understand the conditions that people, around the world, live by.

Wanderer78 · 02-01-2022 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405641#Comment_118405641

you re eluding towards 'inflation', its important to realise why we re experiencing such a thing, again, its primarily due to supply side issues, as was the case in commonly used examples such as 'Zimbabwe'!

the 'handing' out of pup money actually provided our economy with critically needed 'liquidity', as the private sector money creation systems effectively shut down, due to the dramatic fall in the demand for private sector money, i.e. credit. the only way to counteract this was to move our economies towards our public money creation system, i.e. by running a deficit, and giving citizens the money, which in turn they spent into the economy, and are still doing so... oh yea, since this is now a part our national debt, most, if not all citizens will be paying this back through taxation, including these recipients. if we did not do so, more businesses would have collapsed, as there would have been less money spent into the economy, i.e. less money spent into these businesses, so we in fact saved many businesses, therefore jobs, and actually created some along the way, i.e. win win win.

oh corporation tax, one of my favorite topics! the biggest game of 'your it', particularly in relation to taxation, i.e. since they aint paying much, you re actually paying it, and the longer theyre not paying it, the more you re gonna pay it!

we re actually heading into a world whereby ubi might only be the only option, cause if we maintain the status quo, the whole lot will more than likely collapse!

joseywhales · 02-01-2022 4:26pm

No worries, we will be worrying about under population in 50-100 years.

jackboy · 02-01-2022 4:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405726#Comment_118405726

We have seen in the past that an attempt to maintain the status quo will be carried out at all costs. High taxes and austerity are on the way.

02-01-2022 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405726#Comment_118405726

Putting the country into near unrepayable debt throws a spanner in this "win win win" idea you describe. Ireland will eventually default on this debt, to some extent, and the IMF etc will acquire state assets in return. Similar to the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative loans.

Paying mass amounts of people UBI to "spend more time with loved ones" and "do what they truly want with their time" is not sustainable and won't be happening. Any such scenario when the CBDC comes in will be temporary, and require 100% "compliance" in return. Not a position you want to be in.

02-01-2022 4:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405726#Comment_118405726

if we did not do so, more businesses would have collapsed, as there would have been less money spent into the economy, i.e. less money spent into these businesses, so we in fact saved many businesses, therefore jobs, and actually created some along the way, i.e. win win win.

Not strictly true. Covid changed a lot of things including the perception of the consumer towards online purchasing and supply of services. By supporting businesses so much during covid, that ensures that many businesses won't adjust to the new environment in order to remain competitive. Plus it decreases the need for businesses to show innovation to remain viable and also the need for business to cut down operations to improve efficiency. This kind of logic is one of the reasons the Irish public service is so damn large, and costly to the State... everything needs to be supported and protected from failing.

Business failure is a natural part of any economy... because it encourages others to start businesses to meet the lost supply, or encourages people to create products/services to replace what was lost, along with the innovation by existing businesses to remain relevant.

In any case, the Irish State doesn't have the finances to maintain businesses for the extended period that covid is likely to entail, and is merely wasting money on industries that are likely to fail anyway. Yes, some of that is money going into the Irish economy, but a lot of that money is also going abroad to pay for goods/materials/services supplied abroad.. In addition to the foreign migrant population, who are being supported, with a significant part of their incomes being sent abroad (in normal times, the money they received wouldn't be coming from the Govt/welfare but from salaries)

The point is that none of this is a "win win win". There are serious downsides to government intervention, especially over the long term, as the problems with covid are likely to continue for years, considering the approach the government has shown so far.

02-01-2022 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405761#Comment_118405761

I doubt we will TBH. Most European economies are more reliant on technology, than labor intensive industries. Japan has led the way in developing systems that require less manpower, and European nations have been quick to apply their own research/testing to similar systems.

Besides, many of the conditions within Europe, such as the pension are unlikely to continue much longer. They were great ideas but are unsustainable in the long term due to longer lifespans, and the near-constant rise of economic costs involved. Spain being a great example of this, and will serve as a crisis point for other European nations to implement serious change in previously accepted notions.

It makes more sense that at some point in the future the govt will wise up, placing greater supports for those wanting to have children, while decreasing the systems/concepts/"rights" that are so wasteful, hopefully leading to a decrease in the overall costs of living, providing people the chance of having more children, or simply enjoying what they have without needing to work 50+ hours to afford it. While fertility loss is a definite concern, the real issue with population growth is that it's simply too expensive to have and raise children, while maintaining a decent standard of living. Change that, and population growth rates will rise again. You see the decrease in population rates in developing nations, as the costs of living increase. It's not rocket science.

Europe or advanced nations (economically) are simply too damn expensive for people to live in. Counter the expense, and we'll see more children being born, and likely also a return to people getting married.

Thelonious Monk · 02-01-2022 5:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118406052#Comment_118406052

What are you basing this on?

TooTired123 · 02-01-2022 11:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404745#Comment_118404745

Not really. For the most part Covid targeted the very old the weak and the vulnerable, it took them quickly and cleanly and left the young and the healthy for the greatest part with no hospitalization and no long term effects. Remove all emotional response to covid, and that’s it in a nutshell. Nature pruning a bush that had too many dead branches on it.