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War criminal Tony Blair to be given most senior knighthood in new year honours list

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  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭ Freddie Mcinerney




  • Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭ Freddie Mcinerney


    Still be good not go to war on a fabrication. At least Robin Cook see different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,147 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy




  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭ Burt Renaults


    Do you understand the concept of nuance? The nature of how he achieved that success placed Labour in a position where, once the Tories got their act together, there would be little difference between the two parties. That's not to say that Labour won't inevitably return to power some day, but they're relying on Johnson or his successors destroying the Tories first. It's no coincidence that Labour's best post-2010 election result in 2017 (actually their highest share of the vote since 2001) came after the party shifted towards a left-leaning position (i.e. they differentiated themselves from the Tories).



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 84,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    If a petition gets 10,000 signatures, the government will respond, If a petition gets 100,000 signatures, it will be considered for debate in Parliament

    So far 632,747 have signed the petition

    Boris will be well aware that allowing Blair to be eviscerated could put him in the same position over Brexit and Covid and sleaze later on.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The honour is a grant of the Queen alone - no number of signatures can force the government to change that so they can debate all they want but as they (the gov) were not part of the decision then there's fanny adams they can do about it directly.

    'War Criminal' - love it. That is your opinion, not fact, but I'm going to get flamed for that... so fair warning; regardless of my thoughts about Sir Tony, I don't give a toss about your opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,369 ✭✭✭ Odhinn


    Blair's (and others) freedom from the consequence of their actions speaks volumes about the way International "justice" is tailored to keep various actors beyond reproach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,225 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_maxx


    Where can you sign or must you be a UK citizen?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's on change.org (easy enough to find) ... this is not the UK Gov petition website (which I assumed with my earlier comments) so all it is is a record of people who object... and I would guess anyone can 'sign'

    Capt'n Midnight is wrong (sorry) but this 'petition' can hit 10,000,000 signatures and it'll still mean diddly squat as regards having the government debate the matter - my original comment still stands, however, this particular knighthood is the Queens' choice alone (presumably with 'advisers' in the background) so it is not the usual governments recommends, HM obliges like the run of the mill New Year honours.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 84,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    Like I said "it will be considered for debate in Parliament"



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not trying to drag this out but you may be confusing the UK government petitions website with change.org (which is based in California).

    A petition on the UK Gov petition website with 100,000 signatures may be debated in parliament but a petition on change.org with any number of signatories means nothing to the UK government.

    But the fact remains - the (UK) government can debate this, if they so wish, for as long as they want but it will change nothing - this particular knighthood is bestowed at the sovereign's sole discretion unlike the 'traditional' New Year honours where the government draws up (and vets) potential recipients and basically sends the list to the Queen who then obliges ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,277 ✭✭✭✭ Tom Mann Centuria


    The Queen, and royal family in general really nailing the PR these days. It's a skill to get so much wrong. But then maybe Blair is their dead cat to distract from the sweaty nonce.



  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭ The Quintessence Model


    What should he be charged with, he had the support of his parliament at the time?



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,076 ✭✭✭✭ Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Knowingly and willingly lying to said parliament about the possession of weapons of mass destruction held by Saddam Hussein.

    Do NOT ask me how I define the terms "man", "woman", "male" or "female" when you reply to this post. You know the answer and it's probably irrelevant to the discussion :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭ The Quintessence Model


    OK, what are the chances of success in your view, considering he was going by what intelligence he had, and one of his largest critics (who proclaimed that they had the intelligence 'dressed up') is dead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,076 ✭✭✭✭ Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Does it matter? You asked what he should be charged with. I'm not saying he did it - that would be for the trial to decide.

    Do NOT ask me how I define the terms "man", "woman", "male" or "female" when you reply to this post. You know the answer and it's probably irrelevant to the discussion :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭ The Quintessence Model


    Of course it matters. Sure they could charge him with anything in that case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,076 ✭✭✭✭ Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    When you said success, I thought you meant in terms of a conviction.

    They can charge him with anything they have sufficient evidence of, yes. That's how the legal system works.

    The question isn't whether or not the intelligence existed, the question is was it exaggerated and, if so did he know it was and still present it, in which case the war could be rendered illegal.

    Do NOT ask me how I define the terms "man", "woman", "male" or "female" when you reply to this post. You know the answer and it's probably irrelevant to the discussion :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭ The Quintessence Model




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,526 ✭✭✭✭ Igotadose


    They make Russians lords and Kate Hoey a Baroness... this is about the level that honorifics are worth from HMG.


    I'd give Blair his garter (a garter...really?) He was a better PM than his successors and this is a ho-hum thing.



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 84,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    If Boris allows lying to parliament as a reason to block honours he'd not get one himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr



    Aye, the only reason an unpopular Theresa May won fifty more seats than Jeremy and his band of merry communist entryists was media smears.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,076 ✭✭✭✭ Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    It's the only reason conservatives win most eletions or referendums...

    Do NOT ask me how I define the terms "man", "woman", "male" or "female" when you reply to this post. You know the answer and it's probably irrelevant to the discussion :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    Indeed, the ordinary chap in the street is incapable of independant thought. Thats the reason socialists can't get a break

    Or maybe its because the ordinary chap in the street isnt as stupid as they think and he just doesnt like them one bit



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭ Harryd225


    The tories win because they have all the power, democracy is little more than a game that the most powerful will almost always win as they are the ones with the most resources and influence to convince people to vote for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    It's why we need a revolution comrade, once we have all the resources things will be much better, and we won't even have to bother convincing people to keep us in power which is handy, because we always make a balls of it.



  • Posts: 533 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's all very pompous and imperial. I just see a lot of these things as Britain's inability to decide whether it's a modern democracy or a medieval monarchy.

    They still do a lot of endless parading around in ridiculous costumes. Even most other constitutional monarchies have dropped 90% of this kind of thing.

    At the end of the day, be it Thatcher, Blair or anyone else they all get repackaged as national treasures by the monarchy and establishment, no matter how controversial.

    If it were a system like that here we would have probably had to put up with Barron Haughey, Lord Bertie, several Baronesses Mary ... Instead of just letting them fade into the political history books and do the odd interview or lecture, if anyone wanted to listen. Effectively it means high profile former leaders, who may have been great or who may have ousted, end up being baked into the political system by the honours system through the House of Lords and the end up with this mythical class system based reverence no matter how controversial they may or may not have been.

    It's a reason I would never like to see an honours system here. I've no issue with say a medal or something for people who've done something genuinely outstanding, but that's all it should be. They're shouldn't ever be orders or titles or anything like that. You stand on your own record and honour and respect is earned by your actions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,076 ✭✭✭✭ Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    It's not so much independentent though, it's more independent research and the inability to tell lies from facts. They're not stupid, just lazy.

    Do NOT ask me how I define the terms "man", "woman", "male" or "female" when you reply to this post. You know the answer and it's probably irrelevant to the discussion :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,897 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    One thing I'll give the Brits for all their faults, they have a remarkably stable democracy in Britain, so they are obviously a very succesful modern democracy even if you don't approve of the trimmings



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  • Posts: 533 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hmmm? We are sitting in a former part the UK that became independent after a bitter civil war they the UK likes to imagine had absolutely nothing to do with them. Millions of British citizens in the 1800s emigrated to the new world, fleeing dire poverty. Also something they take no credit for. That was someone else apparently?

    Stable like Northern Ireland through the troubles?

    Stable like the Winter of Discontent?

    Or the current likelihood of Scotland exiting?

    I mean, yeah they didn't get radically hammered to the point of restarting from scratch after WWII, but otherwise their stability looks very much like the rest of northern and western Europe - a history of fights with neighbours and instability.

    They do like a bit of pomp and indulging in selective memory. I'll give them that alright.



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