If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Private profiles - please note that profiles marked as private will soon be public. This will facilitate moderation so mods can view users' warning histories. All of your posts across the site will appear on your profile page (including PI, RI). Groups posts will remain private except to users who have access to the same Groups as you. Thread here
Some important site news, please read here. Thanks!

Land Commission/Ownership over time



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,912 ✭✭✭ Say my name

    Property rights

    The Constitution declares that the State will vindicate the property rights of every citizen. This means that you have a right to own, transfer and inherit property. You also have the right to bequeath property upon your death. The State guarantees to pass no law to abolish these rights.

    Article 43 acknowledges that these rights ought to be regulated by the principles of social justice. This means that the State may pass laws limiting your right to private property in the interests of the common good. The most common form of limitation is taxation on ownership, transfer and inheritance.

    Other examples of restrictions or limitations on your right to own property include town and regional planning, protection of national monuments, compulsory acquisition of land.

    If the State passes a law that otherwise restricts your property rights, it may be required to compensate you for this restriction.

    ^^^Those are our property rights in this Republic. Basically you've a right to property but if the government public good want it more..we'll take it.

    Are those not enshrined? Is that not what your disagreement is with the direction land discussion is heading in this country?

    Apologies for broadening your knowledge of Princess Anne. 🙂

    I shall need a request of which knowledge you wish to possess for future engagements.🤓

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭ herdquitter

    It's the interpretation of "appropriate" that's the real discussion. Our private property rights, which I was already depressingly familiar with, aren't worth a toss, for the very reasons you outlined.

    In another republic, across the Atlantic, they do appear to have more appropriate private property rights, in that their version of designations "America the Beautiful" (formerly 30 x 30) can't be foisted upon a landowner without their consent.

    Apology accepted and you may forward future discussion documents to a member of my team 👍️

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ Kevhog1988

    If you go back a few generations id say the ancestors of a fair amount of the ppl that post on here would have gained ownership of their land from the land commission. Before that a lot of farmers had a landlord and no real security

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ Jjameson

    The good old free state didn’t believe in landlordism but had no aversion to land rates!

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,912 ✭✭✭ Say my name

    Different times. Those were times of war with the threat of people being shot. The threat of loss of life does tend to influence a government.

    I'm not advocating violence merely stating the situations.

    We're not in a generation of violence anymore and a bit away from the world wars and civil and independence wars.

    Do you think if a western Monarchy country or province became a Republic nowadays or joined to an existing Republic, land ownership would change?

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm

    With the exception one family in our locality, all the holdings that were created by the land commission have sold out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,307 ✭✭✭ Hard Knocks

    Was the commission in the 20’s, did something else happen in the 70’s? Where fans were sold here and the families moved to Meath/Westmeath

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,380 ✭✭✭✭ wrangler

    My father was trying to buy land here in the nineteen fifties and there was a protest march against it up by the house.

    A good few were resettled here in westmeath from the west of Ireland then too, I think they got farms of about 40 acres.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,307 ✭✭✭ Hard Knocks

    Allot of families were able to extend holdings here because of of it

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ Kevhog1988

    Its an interesting topic. It would be very interesting to see what would happen to the massive landed estates if scotland got independence.

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ Kevhog1988

    Started in 1923 and ended in 1960's as far as i know.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ Kevhog1988

    When mayo were in the all ireland last year there was heaps of mayo flags up around here lol. They have all stayed here.

  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ green daries

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm

    And it's the original small holder tenant farmers that have expanded buying up the holdings.

    Those land commission holdings were sold by the third generation - who were well educated - and are now doing exceptionally well. A system that was of its time and worked out very well

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,104 ✭✭✭✭ Nekarsulm

    Still in existence.

    Just called "Lands" now, and based in the Dept Ag. buildings in Cavan Town.

    Still control quite a large area of land that is still in State ownership, but the bulk of its work is now centered on land disputes, rights of way, legal cases going back decades etc.

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭✭ Base price

    I stand corrected but did the Land Commission also allocate land to "foreigners" (mostly displaced Belgium/Dutch farmers) after the Second World War?

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭ Dinzee Conlee

    The home place is the same land, down to the acre of what we had in the 1850s in the Griffith valuations.

    Now, in 1850, we were renting off some local landlord.

    When would it have come into our possession properly?

    This was what seemed to happen down our way - in our town land I would say maybe half of the same families still have the same farms…

    But I know up around the missus place, people seemed to get fields all over the place, I think from the land commission. Not sure how it was all worked out…

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭ straight

    De valera brought in legislation which meant that the farmers at the time went to bed as tenants and woke up in morning as landowners. The Brits had to borrow huge amounts of money to pay back the landlords for their losses. This money was borrowed over such a long timeframe it will never really be paid back in reality. That's how government debt and bonds work.

  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭ Jim Simmental

    Interesting discussion on land ownership, Did the English give a lot of land to the soldiers after the world war ?

    can’t remember but I came across a map somewhere that the higher your ranking in the army you were allocated land in Kilkenny/Carlow/Meath etc for the highest ranking officers and the lower ranking officers were allocated land in Cavan/Monaghan/Donegal etc.

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,655 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe

    I always wondered about this. What year did DeVelera make this change? The farm where my grandfather was born is across the road from us. In Griffiths Valuation circa (1847 to 1864), the farm is exactly the same as it is today. Same fields, ditches not moved an inch. My great great grandfather or gggg father was listed as a tenant.

    I always wondered when he became the legal owner.

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."

  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ green daries

    Yes some smaller estates around here we're given as gifts for service rendered in the army

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭ Danzy

    Most land was bought out under the land acts by tenants from 1860s to early 1900s

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ Kevhog1988

    Our local area had a lot of landed estates pre 1923. These were all divided up if the landlords were absentee and given to locals or to familys resettled in the area. My great grandfather worked on the only estate in the area who continued to farm as far as i know. Theres an interesting podcast on that estate i listened to lately. They speak of how the estate was given back to the family by the ira and that the ira leader of the time farmed the neighbouring farm.

    i found census info for great grandfather lately as being employed their.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭ Dinzee Conlee

    I thought it was an agent filled out the census rather than the people themselves?

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭ paddysdream

    Same as nowadays ,you filled it out yourself .Literacy rates at the time were much lower so more people would have gotten the census taker to fill it out for them .Same as if you look at Birth Marriage Death Register for late 19th/early 20th century .Perhaps 30% plus are signed with an X and witnessed underneath .

    As regards Bass 1901/1911 census see the exact same here with one grandfather .1901 census filled in as normal ,1911 census has just names written in Old Irish script with nothing else ,no occupations ,ages etc filled in .They would have been very involved in Celtic revival ,Irish language etc and actually had Padraig Pearse down to open local hall c.1910 or so .