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Cars to be fitted with speed limiters from July 2022.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    "This fact free obsession with speeding is beyond farcical when 80+% of accidents are caused by distraction"

    Absolutely agree. Next obligatory feature in cars should be driver facing cameras so in case of any accident you will see if they were looking at the road or their phone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    I'm pretty sure giving all Irish drivers a gun would vastly improve road manners here too 😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    That isn't reflected in the statistics.

    Deaths per 100,000 vehicles per year:

    Norway - 3

    UK - 5.7

    Australia - 7.4

    Ireland - 7.5

    Canada - 8.9

    US - 14.2



  • Registered Users Posts: 39 Just Some Young Lad


    I agree that the klaxon might be a good idea but the exhaled air sensor wouldn't work. What if I am giving my friends a lift home from the nightclub/pub and they're all hammered? The sensor would sense their exhaled air and we wouldn't be allowed to drive.

    I agree, this is a bit too much. I'd be getting that feature coded out of my car ASAP.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,979 ✭✭✭kirving


    "Urban speed limits" implies that 98% applies to 30, 50, 60 and possibly even 80km/h limits. But that 98% figure refers to 30km/h zones only - which even DCC accuse the Gardai of not bothering to enforce. We can throw big scary numbers about all day long, but they mean next to nothing if they are so specific that bear no reflection on reality. All that happens when jumping to seemingly big impact stats is that you lose the room, and with it any genuine message you're trying to send.

    This is coming very soon. I have one of those camera in my hand right now in fact.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you mean i won't be able to post on boards.ie while driving anymore?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Is it easy enough to detect that you've got around the speed limit too?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    To be fair, the crashes are happening all around us. They happen every day. People die on our roads every week, and are seriously injured every day. Crashes on the M50 are reported with alarming regularity.

    Most people are lucky most of the time. Most people can break speed limits with crashing most of the time.

    I agree with you that education is critical. I'd push for regular re-testing of drivers to maintain a focus on continuing education. It's fairly ridiculous to done a once-in-a-lifetime test and be driving 20 or 30 years later with no assessment of skills or knowledge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Just when I think you can't possibly say anything more stupid than you have to date, you go and prove me wrong.

    "Drivers Aged 50-65 get the Best Rates

    Insurance companies believe that drivers in this age range provide little to no risk of getting into an accident. Drivers at this age tend to be cautious of other drivers on the road. They also understand traffic laws and take fewer risks while driving."

    "Fact: Among drivers 75 and older, 3% are involved in all crashes, 8% in fatal crashes, the lowest among age categories. Compare these numbers to the 18% and 16% rates for 35-44 year olds, the group I assumed was the safest." https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/calm-brain/201304/are-older-drivers-safe

    https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/truth-age-group-really-most-15789954

    85% of all serious raod accidents in the Uk are caused by male drivers under 25.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    what's the relative data?

    i.e. that shows a very small number of crashes in people 85 or older. the life expectancy in the UK is 81, so a bare figure that few crashes occur in that age bracket has near zero information content.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If you look at driver fatalities in Ireland, as opposed to accidents crashes in North Wales, you'll see a fairly even spread by age, with a spike in over 65s. It is absolutely ridiculous that someone is supposedly in control of machinery lethal to themselves and others based on a test they did 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. It wouldn't happen for any item of hazardous workplace equipment, but we allow it to happen on the roads.




  • Registered Users Posts: 34 Colliewollie


    Not so common to switch lanes in the north of Spain when cars are merging.. I drive a very old diesel (65 hp, 22 years ago!!) and I have to be very strategic and careful when merging onto dual carriageways or motorways here (especially uphill) as a lot of drivers do not give the courtesy of actually moving over even when the outter lane is empty..


    Obviously many drivers do switch lanes, like myself when it's safe to do so.. I see it as a lack of courtesy.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think an eye test every time the driving licence is renewed would be a much better safety measure, and would cost next to nothing.

    It could be implemented by the clerk who is checking the documentation when the applicant is attending the renewal. 'Could you read the letters on the screen behind me please?' A knowledge of the rules of the road could be checked at the same time by filling a 10 question form printed as a set of randomly selected questions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    That's just deaths and is talking of drivers who were in accidents and doesn't separate out who caused the accident. A ridiculous all encompassing 65+ age category captures 80-90+ year olds who are likely frail and tend to die at a higher rate as a result of accidents that younger drivers would have survived. More risible inadequate Irish data collection and analysis. That rubbish you are basing your stupid opinin on captures old people who through no fault of their own, were hit by a drunk sub 25 young male driver and died and make the meaningless dead driver category in higher numbers due to age infirmities. The data is the wrong sort, is inadequately collected, is badly skewed and doesn't support your stupid notion.

    I got my motorcycle and car licences when I was 18. You are suggesting I need a retest at 38 or 48 when the data clearly shows declining accident causality with age.

    Follow the money - car insurance companies know whats what, which is why the premiums are lowest for people in just the age categories you deem to be unsafe. You think speeding is a significant cause of lots of accidents - 6% - and now you think the safest age categories of drivers can't be trusted to be behind the wheel and need to be retested. Have you considered getting an education and learning how to distinguish fact from fiction and how to think critically?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    What data are yo basing this on? The 85% of serious accidents being caused by male drivers under the age of 25? Unbelievable....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭Andrewf20


    I suspect that most peoples frustration is to have a hard limit whereby the risk is completely variable.

    Do speed limits get set based on the worst probable situations, i.e., wet dark, busy roads. If so, doing 20km/h over this limit shouldnt be an issue if conditions are more favourable.

    This notion that its bad going over what is in affect an arbitary limit is a diluted argument. Limit cars to 160km/h I can understand but to have it match each limit on each road I think is over the top.

    My vote would be have a tolerance above the limit allowed, say 20 - 30%.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell




  • Registered Users Posts: 20,053 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "In 2016, uncorrected or defective eyesight contributed to more than 250 people suffering injuries on UK road"

    In 2016 there were 181,384 road cccident cassualties in the UK.

    Yeah, we need to spend many millions on tackling 0.1378 % of injuries when the national debt is already at €150,000 per income tax payer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    They're moving to online renewals so I don't think you can rely on there being a Patty/Selma clerk in the office. A theory test as part of the renewal is a good idea, and could be done online, just like the theory test for learners now.

    Would be minimal costs involved, as people would be paying for a test, just as learners do at present.

    I get confused when you talk about accidents and causes. If they are accidents, then surely there is no cause, because they're just accidents. If there is a cause, they're not accidents, they are crashes or collisions. Speeding isn't accidental. You don't accidentally press the accelerator.

    But regardless, your callous disregard for the deaths of elderly drivers is noted. Your meaningless data doesn't show scenarios where old people would have been able to get out of the way of the drunk sub 25 young male driver if they had better reaction times.

    I'm not sure where you got your 6% figure about speed from. Here's what the RSA tell us about speeding:

    • Of the driver and motorcycle driver fatalities with a record of their actions leading up to the collision (n = 387), 25% (n = 95) were exceeding a safe speed.
    • excessive speed was a contributory factor in 1 in 3 fatal collisions between 2008 and 2012. This may not have been the sole cause of the collision. 
    • of this number 19% cited excessive speed as the sole contributory factor. 
    • of the 322 people killed in speed-related collisions, 158 were drivers, 49 were motorcyclists and 100 were passengers. 

    Clearly, speeding on our roads is a very big issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    I have noticed on some stretches of motorway that the speed limit sign for 120 km/h is often far down the slip road.

    If the car relies on sign reading technology then it will prevent drivers from getting up to speed before joining. Carnage.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,563 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    This has been explained to you previously. "Excessive speed" in RSA parlance refers to (an arbitrary judgement that) a driver was driving at a speed too fast for the conditions (a safe speed may be well below the limit), and not to exceeding the posted speed limit. The best data available to us indicates that only a minority of "excessive speed" crashes are primarily due to driving in excess of the limit - i.e. this nanny state nonsense will not do anything to prevent the vast majority of crashes and may in fact make things worse (as a driver of a car with a bang up to date similar system, they simply aren't reliable in determining the correct limit).



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    If they're not routinely breaking the speed limits, then they have nothing to fear from the speed limiters. They won't be affected at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I know that slipway theres another one at ennis, they are absolutely lethal. It's not the speed limiters that would cause the accident its the ridiculously designed slipways



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They might move those signposts?? Maybe needs to be done anyway, this could force them to do what needs to be done



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Driving gloves


    What if the 120 sign is blocked by shrubs and the car can’t see it and thus get up to speed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 526 ✭✭✭yoke


    Relying on physical signs would be easily beaten as a system, you’ll get random jokers putting up cardboard signs with “120” painted on residential roads. Or a transparent mini display of the sort used currently in rearview mirror overlays which attaches in front of the camera lens and occasionally flashes the image of a sign saying “120” at random intervals. Or just throw some dirt on the camera lens and watch the system fail.

    relying on GPS and a database of street speed limits would have the problem of what to do when gps is not available - presumably these cars aren’t only going to be sold in Ireland. Again, you’d get jokers going around with GPS jammers so either everyone’s car stops, or everyone can break the speed limit (whatever behaviour the manufacturers choose for when no GPS signal). Or else just drive around with a gps jammer yourself and break the limit all day.

    based on all the above, the best they could actually enforce effectively with current technology would be an absolute top speed limit on every car, fixed at say 130kph or something. It’s going to prevent **** all deaths - I don’t know how many people die a year due to speeding over 130kph but it’s not the majority of road fatalities


    stupid, expensive, unworkable idea that might be profitable to car companies, but no one else. At present anyway…



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Do you think this would be a good reason for not introducing a life saving measure? Or maybe you could put in a report to get the shrubs cut back?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    We have CARnage today, with 2 or 3 people killed on the roads each week and speeding being one of the major causes of road deaths?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,979 ✭✭✭kirving



    • Excessive speed was a contributory factor in 1 in 3 fatal collisions between 2008 and 2012. This may not have been the sole cause of the collision. 

    What percentage did excessive speed play in the collison, or was it incidental? Did they hit a tree at 90km/h in an 80km/h zone because thy were on the phone, but hitting it at 70km/h would have killed the driver anyway? 1/3 is too simplistic a figure IMO.

    • of this number 19% cited excessive speed as the sole contributory factor. 

    So 6.27% of crashes were caused by "excessive speed" alone.

    Of those, how many were excessive, but below the posted speed limit?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,979 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Ok, let's look at it another way then.


    What do you think are the major causes of the 150-ish deaths on the road each year?



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