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You wake up and It's January 2020

  • 28-12-2021 9:11pm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭ completedit

    You are Ursula Van der Leyden and you meet with the other EU heads of State to discuss the virus that appears to be spreading in China. What advice do you give and what actions do you take?

    Realistically is there anything that could have been done differently? I don't believe so, at some stages a nanny state approach was the best but at others, a more libertarian approach was justified. People were always going to die, nobody "murdered" or caused the death of anyone despite what the Johnson and Trump critics might try to claim. Similarly Michael Martin, Angela Merkel nor any other politician who has adopted lockdowns as a tool to combat Covid-19 are responsible for the raft of social and health problems that have already been caused and will be exasperated by continued lockdowns; both groups did what they felt was best at the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    Johnson and Trump absolutely caused the deaths of people with their ignorance and ambivalence as to the severity of the crisis and their role in setting examples even if not outright legislating in a particular direction. So too did other leaders, but what are we doing here if we don't call out completely incompetent behavior when it is plain to see?

    In terms of your scenario, I'm presuming we'd be acting with the knowledge that we now have? In this case, I think an immediate halt to all international travel unless negative test requirements and strict quarantining practices can be implemented would be the foremost thing to advise. That an shutdown of all public events for an initial 3 week period to allow time to determine if it was in individual countries would be necessary. I would also advise countries to develop scalable testing facilities to have them ready to implement.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭ completedit

    My memory of the time is sketchy but Trump did announce a travel ban which I remember being condemned as a further signal of the unhinged lunatic in the White House. Again, how someone acts does shape how their actions are perceived and I can imagine Trump was not exactly statesman like at the time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,928 ✭✭✭ Deeper Blue

    Ursula should've gotten straight onto Tony Holohan and Philip Nolan to tap into their world renowned expertise on Covid.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,962 ✭✭✭ Cluedo Monopoly

    I would advise them to fire Phil Hogan.

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  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 2,179 ✭✭✭ Raichu

    He did. Though it hurts a bit to admit it was indeed one of his better ideas, which was lamented as completely unnecessary and “unfair”.

    If I recall correct only American citizens & permanent residents could enter the states or possibly board a plane I can’t remember but you 100% could not enter the states unless you were a citizen or resident.

    I’m not sure of all that was said to decry it, but it didn’t take long for many countries to follow suit and trump to predictably use that as an example of how the media are so mean to him.

    I reckon it didn’t help his case given his insistence to call covid the “China virus” that or the fact he was already losing the plot completely and had embarrassed himself on numerous occasions since the prior November.

    At that point I honestly think if he’d snapped his fingers and eradicated covid there and then he STILL would’ve been critiqued for it somehow. I guess it wasn’t so much what he did was inherently bad, he’d just pissed on everyone’s Sunday dinners too many times & they were sick of it.

    can’t blame them anyway.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81

    The restrictors absolutely are 100% guilty of their crimes against human rights and the economy, and the fact that they have killed more than they have saved. This includes the likes of Martin and Varadkar. There can be no forgiveness.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    Over dramatic nonsense.

    But in terms of their being no forgiveness, would you say the same about SF?

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81

    The Provos (they abandoned Sinn Féin in 1986) are every bit as guilty.

  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭ PalLimerick

    That may be so, but now fast forward to nearly 2022 and a lot more is known about the Virus and a lot more vaccines and treatments are available and Biden and Johnson are doing no better, if not worse.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭ fits

    I would have purchased PPE and brought in mask wearing much sooner. Protected nursing homes. Also travel bans in early days would give a chance to prepare before the surge.

    but no not much else. Everyone was learning as they went along and it may be similar next time as the next virus could be very different.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,103 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762

    I'd have moved to New Zealand for a few years, probably the south island, away from Auckland.

  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭ it takes 2 2 tango

    Temporarily suspend all travel within the EU and from outside it into it. The former is a tough decision to make but will pay off in the long run.

    Use the time to work with all EU countries to make the forthcoming vaccine mandatory across the whole bloc, likewise for face coverings.

    Indefinite jail terms for people who refuse vaccines (without medically approved justification) and who are caught without face coverings.

    Introduce systems throughout the EU whereby it will be easier and still anonymous to report neighbours and acquaintances for breaches of the rules.

    People who are exempt from face coverings need to carry written proof of this. Makey-uppy nonsense such as “sensory” issues won’t wash.

    Round up all people or “groups” of people at risk of deviating from covid safety protocols or who may take criminal advantage of the situation and they will be taken to a secret location and only released when the situation abates.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭ fits

    Eh no. I comply with restrictions but this sounds awful.

  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭ it takes 2 2 tango

  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 2,179 ✭✭✭ Raichu

    I can’t disagree tbh

    the likes of Gemma O Donkey etc should be dealt with by some strict measures since the likes of them can’t be reasoned with.

    remove them from the equation altogether right from the get go. I suspect were she and her donkey counterparts not allowed to roam around chatting shite the way she did a lot fewer people would be resisting vaccines, masks, etc.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭ Fighting Tao

    This probably is more of an After Hours thread.

    I’d tell her to log onto Boards and read what the conspiracy theorists are saying. It would give her a laugh during the tough times ahead.

  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭ it takes 2 2 tango

    He wouldn’t be quizzed if he carried around written proof or wore a state issued badge. As I already said.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭ fits

    so you think we should put badges on people with ID? Right.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭ it takes 2 2 tango

    No. Carry a card or wear a badge, your choice. That when scanned by the authorities will display the exemption with the persons photo, this is to ensure that the card won’t be used by other people.

    The reason for the exemption won’t be there, for privacy, just the word “exempt”.

    But as I said, nonsense like “sensory” won’t wash. They can be made up.

  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 2,179 ✭✭✭ Raichu


    they are saying people who are mask-exempt should have some sort of note or badge to prove this.

    as it currently stands anyone can claim they can’t wear a mask because “have asthma” or “sensory bro”. I don’t think it needs to be said a lot of people are just being chancers.

    edit: anyway, back in 2020, kids didn’t wear masks, only adults. So non issue!

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭ fits

    True but many aren’t.

  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 2,179 ✭✭✭ Raichu

    Definitely true, but look at it this way:

    you simply cannot park in a wheelchair accessible parking spot without a badge in the window. That’s the end of it.

    should we do away with those and just have the honour system for the sake of not making people have a badge?

    much like the wheelchair accessible parking badge, you don’t need to have it on the note or badge what the exemption is for just simply this person has an underlying condition which makes mask wearing difficult/impossible.

    i honestly don’t see the big deal & as someone with a condition that makes breathing hard while wearing masks I’d happily take one myself. As it stands I generally just suffer in discomfort because I cba having an argument with someone over it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭ it takes 2 2 tango

    I’d say there’s a huge cohort faking exemptions. Why can’t we build the exemption into the European Covid Cert?

    Asthma doesn’t stop you wearing it btw.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 21,097 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Pawwed Rig

    The poster is either taking the mickey or is a very dangerous person.

    I like that we have people like Gemma O'Doherty. She is essentially a laughing stock but gives a good idea of how far the loonies will go. It would be worse if there was an anonymous group taking that space

  • Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭ it takes 2 2 tango

    Why? If you’re not breaking the law you have nothing to be afraid of.

    People should have to prove their exemption to go without masks the same way people have to prove eligibility to use disabled parking spaces.

    Compliance will increase if you think there may be people secretly watching you.

    Secret prisons would add fear and thus increase compliance.

  • Registered Users Posts: 20,036 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how

    Well, Johnson has been in charge throughout the period of the virus in the UK and has been consistently deplorable.

    As for Biden, what could he do right now? The virus roll out was done very well, so too the booster. He introduced federal vaccine mandates which were challenged in the courts but I think have been upheld. He's competing against Republican Governors and Conservative media which has tried intensely to undermine the message about the vaccine, the wearing of masks and any sort of lockdowns. This counter message is so focused by the likes of Fox, inspite of their hosts all being vaccinated, that even Trump was booed when announced recently that he had gotten the booster.

    Biden should be doing better in a lot of areas, but don't think there's any comparison between his performance and that of his predecessors.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,651 ✭✭✭✭ thebaz

    I'd be asking for a credible account of how this novel virus emerged, so it never happens again.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,656 ✭✭✭ Danno

    Back in February 2020 the following should have been done:

    • A total ban on all non-essential international travel
    • An ultimatum given to Stormont - pick your border: Irish Sea or Malin Head to the Cooley Mtns, they've been well versed now in the "EU frontier" for the last 4 years already.
    • An 80% wages guaranteed for those who were furloughed
    • A quicker move to full lockdown in March to achieve extremely limited community spread of the original virus
    • Rapid building/facility CPO'ing of specialised regional covid-care facilities to keep the virus out of hospitals (i.e. Citywest)
    • All suspected and confirmed covid patients diverted into said facilities
    • Quick ramp up of testing and tracing to stem spread in the early days of the virus
    • Continue the ban on international travel throughout Summer 2020 and into Christmas 2020 to avoid imported virus from Spain and UK in particular and thus allowing local hospitality to trade into 2021
    • Spring 2021 - once the vaccines arrive relax international travel restrictions and suffer the delta wave
    • Early summer 2021 - full re-opening and never look back
    • Winter 2021 - welcome omicron instead of boosters for the general public - offer and recommend boosters to elderly and vulnerable

    Sit back and get re-elected with a snap early Summer 2022 election.