Rose Of Tralee now accepting trans applicants (Threadbanned List in OP)

Quantum Erasure · 05-01-2022 12:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419184#Comment_118419184

it's already been updated, that's what this whole thread is about...

05-01-2022 12:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419205#Comment_118419205

For some.

For others, it seems to be their opportunity to pretend they're (Drag) King for a day.

Bannasidhe · 05-01-2022 1:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419056#Comment_118419056

You will have to do better than a new on the scene conservative magazine with known GC contributors, and 'fact check' figures from C4 that consider only one country and state in the very piece You linked that due to issues with how deaths are recorded they advise any conclusion is treated with caution.

They referenced South America but didn't fact check the figures from there. Just good old Blighty.

Your counter evidence consists of a Not so much fact checked as a heavily qualified look the oer capita murder rate of a small minority in one country, and an opinion piece in a conservative magazine by an author who has written a number of transphobic opinion pieces for the same magazine 🤔

Is that the best you could do after all these days?

But it has nothing to do with your little polemic which, in turn, has nothing to do with RoT making it clear transgender women are free to apply to compete.

Bannasidhe · 05-01-2022 1:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419085#Comment_118419085

I already said if you genuinely want an answer go ask in the relevant forum.

It is not on topic in this thread.

gozunda · 05-01-2022 1:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419036#Comment_118419036

Is it completely up the organisers?

I seem to remember various beauty pagents being put under pressure by various activists over the years

I wonder if Jonathan Yaniv has any Irish antecedents ...

https://www.jccf.ca/yaniv-targets-beauty-pageant-in-new-discrimination-complaint/

gozunda · 05-01-2022 1:07am

Bannasidhe · 05-01-2022 1:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419355#Comment_118419355

Is it your contention that the Rose of Tralee has been put under pressure to change their rules so married women are allowed to enter?

Have you any proof of this?

Does the media know?

If true that changes everything.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-01-2022 1:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419355#Comment_118419355

Well - who else would it be up to...?

05-01-2022 1:23am

So long as they all have lovely bottoms and have a lovely laugh and can make a sandwich the right size. They can take me out for a meal afterwards.. they have to pay though.

gozunda · 05-01-2022 1:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419368#Comment_118419368

I reckon you must be reading someone else's comment and that reply is meant for them.

The above question was in reply to yours "that it was up the organisers"

And your comments are a bit cryptic. What would "change everything" exactly?

Bannasidhe · 05-01-2022 2:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419379#Comment_118419379

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419419#Comment_118419419

You questioned if it was really up to the organisers who gets to enter because blah blah Canada.

Only change afaik the organisers made this year is to allow married women and increase the age to 29.

Transgender women were never specifically prohibited, married women were and the rules were changed to allow them in.

I'm wondering was there shenanigans by the married women's lobby 🤔

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-01-2022 2:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419379#Comment_118419379

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419419#Comment_118419419

"Is it really up to the organisers?"

"Who else would it be up to?"

"I reckon you must be reading someone else's comment..."

Liberty_Bear · 05-01-2022 2:18am

Legally recognised women can enter an event that is excessively twee ....I dont see the issue really.

AllForIt · 05-01-2022 2:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419342#Comment_118419342

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405287#Comment_118405287

It goes waaay beyond "having a different perspective" or "sensitivities" - I am not saying all GC Fervent Activists actively want to harm transgender people but the fact remains that transgender women are frequently murdered in horrifically violent ways due to being transgender.#

I replied to you initially in reference to your comment a few day ago, as above, where you said transgender people are frequently murdered. You didn't mention South America in that post. I would have thought if you meant South America and not Ireland or the UK you might have said since I'm sure you wouldn't have wished to spread a false narrative that trans women are being murdered 'frequently' in western Europe.

The article I linked to debunks the idea that trans people are frequency murdered in the UK. Perhaps because some people there, like yourself, don't often clarify they are in fact taking about murders that take place in places like South American, and not the UK. I'm sure that's why the article I linked to only reported UK stats.

edit: someone asked earlier was it @The Quintessence Model what I meant when I said in relation to trans murders that that narrative was 'dishonestly presented'. Well, this post is the explanation.

Bannasidhe · 05-01-2022 2:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419490#Comment_118419490

I mentioned no geographical location. The links I posted were not Irl or UK specific in any way.

If you assumed two small islands off the coast of continental Europe are all that matters that says more about your own biases than anything I posted.

However, at no point did you say only Irl/UK murders count when you dismissed transgender murder victims as lies.

It is certainly possible that a transgender woman from South America could enter the RoT. Argentina has a sizable enough contingent of people with an Irish connection (and passport).

Your 'evidence' re: UK consists of an opinion piece by a GC writer in a conservative magazine and a fact check where the fact checkers bend over backwards to urge caution as they cannot stand over the figures they used.

gozunda · 05-01-2022 4:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419478#Comment_118419478

Blah blah? Your replies are a complete joy for sure but as here incorrect btw. (And no idea why you're including someone else's comment either)

I made a comment regarding Irish descent and posited whether that would likely change. I made no reference to ' Canada' or being "married" in that comment at all.

You replied it would be the responsibility of the organisers

I asked you to clarify that and yes I then made a seperate comment with regard to changes not always simply being the sole direction of event organisers.

You then went off on a bizarre tangent about married women, proof and the media???

Do please try and not go off on tirades. It's getting tiresome. Thanks.

Bannasidhe · 05-01-2022 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419355#Comment_118419355

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419549#Comment_118419549

"Is it completely up to the organisers" is the comment I responded to. You posted a Canada relevant link on the same post.

You attempted to suggest pageant organisers are not the decision makers but bow to pressure to make changes.

The only changes the RoT made was to allow married women and 29 year olds enter - so I pondered if they had been subject to pressure by the Married Women's Lobby

Your inability to remember what you yourself posted is a delight - even after Princess Consuela Bananahammock took the trouble to remind you - but please don't blame other posters, or accuse them of anything to mask the deficiency in your memory. It's getting tiresome.

Bannasidhe · 05-01-2022 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419628#Comment_118419628

For feck sake.

For the very last time as this is off topic and I am responding only because of the apparent ability of some posters here to tell other people what they think is matched only by those same poster's inability to read what is actually written.

I made no comment about what or how Bisexual people can define THEMSELVES.

I stated that a non-Bisexual person who claims that a Bisexual person is 'straight' when in a relationship with the same gender and 'gay' when in a relationship with the same gender is being Biphobic.

Even if YOU are bisexual - you cannot speak for ALL bisexuals.

I am not the one who said how Bisexual people can/should/do define THEMSELVES. I responded to a poster who was, in fact, taking that role upon themselves. I believe that poster was you.

And that is my final word on this particular clutched straw.

I noted that for all your guff about "genuine question" you haven't bothered to go to the relevant forum as enquire why your statement is problematic. In case you cannot find that forum it is here: https://www.boards.ie/categories/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender

The Quintessence Model · 05-01-2022 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421086#Comment_118421086

I never did any such thing. You read what I posted completely incorrectly. Here it is again:

'But they could identify as being straight when in a relationship with a person of the opposite sex and homosexual when in a relationship with someone of the same sex, no?'

'They' implies bi-people. Saying someone could is not saying some should or has to. No-one suggested how a bi person should or shouldn't identify. Only that they could if they so chose to do so. I suggest you take your own advice and read what is written more carefully in the future before you jump the gun and label posters as biphobes.

gozunda · 05-01-2022 3:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420371#Comment_118420371

I'd appreciate it if you could at least be truthful. The topic under discussion in my initial comment was changes regarding Irish descent.

The rest was subsequent to your reply - which I asked you to clarify

with the question "Is it completely up to the organisers?" Pls note the question mark thus "?" and you didn't bother answering that funnily enough

Where the fud you got the smart reply about media and married women atc who knows?

A straight answer would have at least been appreciated.

But no matter. I'll leave you to it.

Addendum: I've no idea what Princess Consuela Bananahammock posted other than what you bizarrely quoted - as I didn't reply or quote them at all. That poster seems to be on my ignore list. And looking at what I have seen by way of comments that's not surprising tbf.

05-01-2022 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419388#Comment_118419388

For one moment I read that first "have" as "are". Oops.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-01-2022 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422598#Comment_118422598

Too busy getting ready for their auditions.

km991148 · 05-01-2022 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422610#Comment_118422610

yeah I guess.. definitely not the rampant open derision and mockery. Not here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-01-2022 6:51pm

Well, this is it: there's a certain wisdom in knowing that there's no requirement in even trying to justifying your right to exist.

km991148 · 05-01-2022 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118422686#Comment_118422686

Absolutely

One eyed Jack · 06-01-2022 11:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418555#Comment_118418555

Have to give you props man for your determination to maintain your position in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You spoke of “implications” earlier as though there were negative consequences for society of being informed about people who are transgender, yet at the same time you make the point that being transgender should be regarded as a condition, as though there are no implications of that argument.

There are no positive implications of it, for anyone, and though you make the point that it affects other people, that they’ll hardly affect you, and they’ll hardly affect me either (you’re wrong about that, but that’s another days discussion), the fact is that it affects everyone in society. The idea informs science, medicine, law, all sorts of domains, so to say it doesn’t affect everyone personally is just not true. Children born now won’t remember that homosexuality was decriminalised in 1993, but their parents who’s equal participation in society was limited by legislation - they remember, as do the people who opposed their equal participation in society on the basis of the same arguments about “implications”. The only implication that mattered is that the stigma of being gay was no longer codified in Irish law.

To say that it doesn’t affect people personally is to ignore the fact that indeed here we are having a conversation about this off the back of a pageant I’d safely say neither of us gives a shiny shyte about. And heres the thing, that’s the only way we differ. I question the motivations of people who want to be a dog in a manger about it - no interest in the festival themselves, but they’ll be damned if they’re going to accept that the organisers have realised that the festival is dying on its arse and they need to broaden its appeal. Their objections are motivated by nothing more than spite. They want to make life difficult for people for the sheer fcukery of it, just because they imagine they can.

That is exemplified in the example you gave of Julia Grant. Both of us could watch the same five hour documentary, and come away with different perspectives, in just the same way as people did when the documentary series was first aired. The clinical psychiatrist in question really put Julia through the ringer, because Julia didn’t, and wouldn’t, and couldn’t conform to his perception of what a woman should be -

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/09/julia-grant-obituary

You gave out about how the public react when they disagree with the decisions of clinicians, yet you conveniently overlook the fact that only recently there were attempts made to undermine the work of the Tavistock Institute by way of a judicial review in the UK. Speaking of the UK, and your determination to maintain your position - you linked to an article earlier which, from it’s tone alone, you had to know it was biased in favour of your opinion. It linked to what it describes as a fact check, which if you’d read that, you’d have seen the flaw in their reasoning. They didn’t compare different groups in society to determine whether or not it was true that people who are transgender are among the most vulnerable and marginalised groups in society.

They didn’t for example compare the proportion of the population who are transgender, who are the victims of homicide, to the proportion of the population who are the victims of homicide because of their gender, either men, women or children. I’ll bet you can’t tell me for example the proportion of men in the UK who are the victims of homicide, because they are men. That’s what it means to say people who are transgender are among the most marginalised and vulnerable groups in society, but god dammit I cannot get my head around the idea that you’re willing to claim you’re that stupid that you didn’t know full well that’s what it means.

The Rose of Tralee ain’t my bag, but I can understand the importance of representation and visibility, and I’d always support anyone rather than trying to tear them down, because those implications you spoke of? Yep, they’re real alright, and the implications of people who are transgender being more visible in society means they are that much closer to being regarded as being of equal status as everyone else, as opposed to being transgender being regarded as a ‘condition’ -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgie_Stone

That’s what support looks like. It motivates and inspires people to make their dreams reality, whether their dreams are to become an actress, a writer, to change the law, or just to be crowned the Rose of Tralee.