Vrt problem with motor dealer

AndrewJRenko

Why is the legal thing a waste of time? It will cost you a few quid for sure, but it may be the only option to get it sorted.

Unless you think he's going to go under or do a runner?

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336599#Comment_118336599

It was you who declared here that all was good with the transaction as you paid by card. My point was that he could still be denying the sale went through his business regardless of card payment.

You messed up by dealing with a cowboy. You know this. You are down money whatever way you go so just sell it in north and be done.

User1998

This shouldn’t be a major issue. You have all of the required documentation to VRT the car yourself. You have an invoice, you have the v5. If you have to pay VAT/customs you will get a SAD document which acts as your proof of entry into the state. After the VRT you can get the dealer to pay the VAT/customs through the small claims court and it definitely won’t take 18 months.

Or you could just sell the car up North

Aly Daly

Thank you all for your input & in the grand scheme of things it's not the end of the world. This sort of thing can & does happen and I think it is important to state that none of us are above being lured into a financial trap, it's the first time anything like it has happened to me and I was extremely silly to let it happen. Thank you User1998 for that advice very much appreciated.

goochy

Tell him you will get revenue involved if its not sorted

seagull

Was the cost of vrt supposed to be included in what you paid him? If so, he hasn't supplied what you paid for. Give him back the car, and issue a chargeback on the card.

Aly Daly

seagull, Vrt was to be included & I have looked at terms & conditions with my bank which says 120 days to bring up a query on a purchase , the sale, was in July but maybe it would be worth talking to them.

User1998

So you’ve paid him for the VRT?

Aly Daly

Yes I gave him the price he was looking for less some negotiation, the vehicle was then to be Vrt registered in my name inclusive of purchase price.

bazz26

OP, you need to be clear here. Did the dealer sell you the vehicle at a price including VRT or excluding VRT?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336599#Comment_118336599

Why is it not your concern?

I have no idea why you're not reporting this to the relevant authorities, you haven't done any thing wrong. I'd be dropping into my local Garda station to explain the situation, this guy needs to be investigated.

Aly Daly

bazz26, including Vrt.

Aly Daly

standardg60, to make things clear I have discussed this matter with my solicitor who has wtote to the dealer & rang him. During the phone conversation he told my solicitor he would get on to it straight away, I heard nothing from him. I mentioned the guards to the solicitor who told me it was a civil matter.My solicitor also informed me that getting him into court will take approximately 18 months with no guarantee of recovering anything if he happens to be potless at the time. Small claims is 2k max but it might be worth a try.

Marcusm

Is he a proper dealer? Did he give you a proper amount invoice. If yes then I would copy the paperwork and send it to Revenue at the address below. You might think that “I can’t be arsed, I’ll just move on” but there are two reasons why you should. Firstly, when you present it for inspection, you will not be able to prove when it entered the State but it may be recorded already. This will expose you to a penalty for late payment. If the dealer has a a TAN number, he will have committed an offence by providing the car to you without registering it. Tell that to your solicitor, it’s an”each way” offence - up to 12 months at District Court or 5 years at Circuit Criminal Court. (Your solicitor will realise that while this is not a Garda matter, it certainly is a criminal rather than civil matter.). This may assist you in recovering whatever money he owes you.

The second reason is that knobs like this won’t change unless they are reported.

The Central Vehicle Office,

Revenue Commissioners,

Anne Street,

Wexford,

Y35 E29K.

Charles Babbage

I'd talk to the Revenue, they are not at all pleased when people collect money including taxes and then do not pass the tax element on to them. While you can offer to settle the bill, if they subsequently recover the VRT from the dealer than it should not have to be paid twice and perhaps they would refund you in that case.

Aly Daly

Charles Babbage, thanks for that.

Aly Daly

Marcusm, I have a full invoice & card machine receipt, the dealer has a Tan number, User1998 mentioned a SAD document as proof of entry into the country. I am considering either selling in the North which I presume is no problem possibly using a well known auction like Wilson or Vrt it myself & contact the Gardaí despite the fact that my solicitor told me it was a civil matter.I am very conscious that this is happening to others who use this dealer.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118354656#Comment_118354656

This ^^^,

In Ireland the Gardai move slowly if at all, the courts take years, solicitors will clearly dealing chasing a financial strawman is pointless.

On the other hand revenue move like grease lightening, have teeth and require no interaction with the courts to issue a sheriffs warrant. If this guy has not paid VRT then he has undoubtedly also failed to properly account for VAT on the transaction (indeed it is not possible to determine VAT without VRT).

Tell your friendly dealer he has a definitive deadline to complete the transaction and provide an invoice of Sale to you which complies with Tax legislation as a valid VAT invoice or you will provide all details of the transaction to Audit section the Inspector of taxes.

https://www.ros.ie/online-enquiry-web/goodCitizen;rjsessionid=E24C4105481A124F7813C48B31873A54?execution=e1s1

Aly Daly

paul71, i am concerned that contacting revenue/Guards will result in seizure of the vehicle & late fees etc on Vrt ruling out selling in the North however I do appreciate I will have to make up my mind on what to do, I threatened the dealer long ago with reporting him to revenue & Guards and he just said there was no need as he would Vrt the vehicle,that was probably in September some time.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356808#Comment_118356808

Yeah at the beginning I told you to VRT it yourself or sell it in the North. But that was before you mentioned you have paid the dealer for the VRT and he just hasn’t done it.

If you sell it in the North through an auction you’ll loose thousands, and if you VRT it yourself you will also loose thousands.

I honestly don’t know what you should do. I would probably report him to Revenue at this stage.

Aly Daly

User1998, the vehicle price is relatively ok as it stands because the dealer told me the vrt was low & would incur no vat due as it was an ex fleet vehicle which is rubbish , the original price is similar to what it would be worth in the UK,i presume I would have to take less for it in an auction setting than a private sale. I reiterate that the vehicle was sold Vrt, vat, duty inclusive of purchase price in other words sold on Irish plates as is standard practice,. The con was in that he got the money out of me & told me to drive away after showing me an official Vrt inspection appointment for my vehicle the following week which of course he promptly cancelled. I am in business 30 years & I don't know why but I said I'd run with it,a mixture of greed & naivety I'm afraid.I am desperately embarrassed about the whole mess.

Car99

We buy any car and be rid of it. Life's too short