Formula 1 Round 21 Saudia Arabia GP

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277362#Comment_118277362

sponsors want to see everyone with as much screen time as possible ..... of course they will be taking every opportunity to get behind a mic. Also - the side story of the pitwall and radio comms all adds to the viewer engagement and sponsors love that !!

amandstu

I thought Verstappen got 15 seconds penalty points

.What difference have they made? They didn't put him back to 3rd place?

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277526#Comment_118277526

He still finished 2nd with the 15 second penalties.

Anjobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277115#Comment_118277115

Why not just read the Steward's decisions (https://www.fia.com/documents/season/season-2021-1108/championships/fia-formula-one-world-championship-14)? They are generally very clearly explained and a lot of the ill-informed opinion about these incidents could be easily avoided.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277843#Comment_118277843

The Stewards heard from the driver of Car 44 (Lewis Hamilton), team representative

and examined video and team radio evidence.

The driver was given a 10 second warning that Car 9 was approaching when he was

at Turn 2.  Due to a failure in communication by the Team he was not given another

warning until Car 9 was alongside him.

The Stewards accept that this circuit presents challenges for drivers in relation to

using their mirrors as the method of determining the approach of overtaking cars.

 Although it is the driver’s ultimate responsibility to avoid impeding, for this circuit the

driver must depend upon the Team to communicate efficiently. This did not happen inthis case and accordingly the penalty for the Competitor is imposed.

That's ruling. So then did they fail to communicate on Sunday too after being reprimanded? Max slowed due to quick and concise communication. Mercedes didn't apparently communicate. So why warn and fine a team for it one day, and then ignore their poor communication the next day when it was a factor in a collision. And sure why not let red bull use the mirror excuse too.

amandstu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277609#Comment_118277609

Oh,he was about 23 seconds ahead of Bottas without the penalties?

recyclebin

We don't know when they told Red Bull and when they told Mercedes. It looked like they told Red Bull first. Some of the videos appeared to show Hamilton only being told at the exact moment he drives into Max.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277339#Comment_118277339

Sky didn't force Horner to come to an interview with pictures of rear wings to make complaints through the media rather than through the stewards. Thats all on him.

Weepsie

We don't know indeed. But the communication yesterday was that Merc were told and that they failed to communicate it.

mickdw

Sky confirmed that the review footage they received from FOM showed Hamilton only being told right at point of impact.

Di resta who was listening live to team radios said he didn't believe that was the true timing of the radio coms. If that is the case, that distorts the view of the incident as seen by the average viewer and in my opinion is shocking. We are into Netflix territory there and it's not good enough.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118277115#Comment_118277115

Why do I need to explain it? What has that got to do with nobody having a good reason why Hamilton would want to drive into the back of Max?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278200#Comment_118278200

Merc were told as the incident was unfolding. They hadn't even a chance to relay the information fully to Bonno, never mind Hamilton.

People are ignoring this, despite the fact we clearly heard the radio communications during the race yesterday.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278152#Comment_118278152

Ya he was borderline a pitstop ahead of bottas but not enough to take it due to original 5 sec penalty which he would have had applied at the stop if he took it.

It's interesting. If max didn't have the initial 5 second penalty he may have taken a pitstop to get fastest lap. That would have created a 2 point swing to max over Hamilton at race end. However, it would have put him quite close to bottas and ocon on the track. If he then had the 10 second penalty applied after, it might well have put him back to 4th.

The drive for the extra point could have cost him dearly and handed the championship lead to Hamilton with a 4 point advantage going into last race.

Mitch Connor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278209#Comment_118278209

The review footage would be different to what they show the viewer in real time - cause the radio messages are delayed on the live feed.

Unless the explanation in your post is oddly worded?

(1) review footage says communication came at point of impact.

(2) Di Resta says the review footage is incorrect? If the review footage is incorrect then the stewards are making a call based on inaccurate information.

mickdw

Di resta stated that listening live, Hamilton got the message in advance of the impact.

The review package sent to tv companies made it appear that Hamilton got the message at point of impact.

If DiResta is correct, it's not a case of radio delays, its a case of distorting appearance of what actually happened.

I'm not saying the stewards are working off this footage but distorting the viewing public's perception of an event is pretty dodgy.

Anjobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278097#Comment_118278097

If you actually watched the race you probably should have realised that the slow communication was between Race Control and Mercedes in this case not between Mercedes and Hamilton, and again the Stewards decision explains very clearly who was predominantly to blame for the collision and why.

KevRossi

I've posted Scott Mansell's (Driver 61) comments before. I think this is worth a look. He's an actual racer, not a blogger. He deals with all of the incidents and what would be going through the drivers minds when the incidents occur.

As usual with him, I agree with a lot of what he says, but not all of it.

(And if you do follow him then he's got some interesting personal news in this video, and all the best to him with that!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1XfFdwutSU

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278659#Comment_118278659

I did watch it. Merc simply said they were not told on time. They were told that they were told in good time

Whether Merc/Lewis were told on time is fairly irrelevant. You can give back a place in a way that clearly signals your intentions, drivers have been doing it for decades without needing to exchange radio messages between all parties.

Max was trying to be a smartass with how/when he gave up the place, and as a result his intentions were not clear. You can't mess around like that on the racing line with someone in your slipstream.

tigerboon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279234#Comment_118279234

69 bar, 2.4g deceleration....that's more than just messing around. You can't jump on the brakes when someone is right behind you.

McFly85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279234#Comment_118279234

That's kind of the problem though, isn't it? There's no set rule that you cannot choose the where you give the place back(only that it's done relatively quickly). Others have tried giving it back in DRS areas before, and Max himself was too honest in Bahrain when he gave the place back to Hamilton immediately.

Absolutely, he didn't make it easy for Hamilton, but what's the problem with that? Mercedes were being smartasses too with Bottas slowing down to allow Lewis to pit and Lewis I think at one point wasnt following at speed to warm up his tires. The FIA by not doing anything in these instances almost invited Max to try his own gamesmanship, such is the type of race they were allowing.

Now you can argue that he didn't play the game well, and certainly the stewards thought so, so fine. He tried and it cost him(although not much). But if the FIA/stewards had a handle on the race and didn't take any of this crap from either team I doubt you would have seen it at that point.

recyclebin

Has anyone ever been punished for being too slow behind a safety car or not keeping the correct gap? I think it may have only been once for both as far a I can remember. It's not just a Mercedes or Red Bull thing either, everyone has been at it during formation laps or when double stacking.

Some of these rules need a complete overhaul and enforced correctly.

Is there anything in the rulebook about how to give a place back? This has been a grey area for a long time. Hamilton got penalised 25s back in 2008 for not doing it correctly and dropped from 1st to 3rd so this is not a new issue.

You shouldn't be allowed crash in qualifying, ruin everyone else's lap and still get to keep your position and change parts free of charge. I'd argue that if you bring out a red/yellow flag in qualifying then your best time get deleted. If you damage the car then it's 5-10 places to replace them for the race.

Same thing for red flags, no changes to car or tyres without a grid place penalty. Only exception is if your car was hit through no fault of your own and the other driver has been found at fault and penalised.

Track limits are another big one. The white line should be the limit, no ifs or buts.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279234#Comment_118279234

Hamilton was able to mess around on the racing line on Saturday in FP3 and the stewards didn't penalise him

Anjobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279817#Comment_118279817

The reasons for this were very clearly explained by the stewards in their decision.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118279817#Comment_118279817

So you have said multiple times.

It's been explained to you what the stewards said on that one and you continuously choose to ignore it.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118280005#Comment_118280005

I don't agree with it. Dangerous driving is dangerous driving. Hamilton is in his 15th(?) Season. He was driving very slowly along the racing line in the middle of a practice session. Look at the onboard from Mazepins car.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118280095#Comment_118280095

Well then why are you asking the same thing over and over and over again when the stewards made a decision, that you have acknowledged?

What about this? What about that? It's always the same.

If you disagree with it, fine. But you keep asking a question of other posters when the answer is right in front of you and it's the definition of bad faith posting.

recyclebin

It's a practice session, no one was hurt, cars were not damaged. The penalties for offences during practice are never as extreme as qualifying or the race. This is a known fact. I don't know why people keep bringing it up. It's nothing new.

Hijpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118280295#Comment_118280295

It's not about the outcome it's about the infringement.

That's why Hamilton only got a slap on the wrist for putting Verstappen in a wall and ending his race while he could continue and eradicate the penalty.

alan partridge aha

Damon Hill is such an ahole.