Austria hits panic button.

spaceHopper

I see Austria has hit the panic button and thrown the toys out of the pram.

They locked down unvaccinated people gave no time for that to have an effect and now is demanding everybody gets vaccinated by Feb 1st.

What they should have done is lock down everybody for a month then release the vaccinated people and keep the unvaccinated locked down until cases were below say 200 per 100K if they go back up to 800 per 100K do it again….

State wide antigen testing would also help.

You can't force people to be vaccinated may will rebel and say no, what are they going to do? Lock all of them up in prison?   

JPCN1

While I think everybody should take the vaccine I would be very uncomfortable in forcing people to do so against their will.

As you say though, how can they implement this...

Kermit.de.frog

You don't have to lock them up but they could be given the cold shoulder in many aspects of life which few would have an issue with.

It's still their choice.

francogarbanzo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190380#Comment_118190380

If you're legally forced to do something, you don't have a choice in the matter. That's the whole point of legally enforcing something.

Squeeonline

I am living in Austria if anyone wants to ask me anything about the situation here.

Squeeonline

One of the main ways to get people vaccinated has been blocking unvaccinated from eating in restaurants or going to coffee shops, getting hair cut, generally participating in austrian life.

Every time there's a restriction (i.e. PCR tests only valid for 48 hours rather than 72, antigen tests only for 24h not 48h) there's a surge in people queuing to get vaccinated. People want to eat out, and go back to "normal". Soon the only way will be with a vaccine pass.

Kermit.de.frog

You can't complain about restrictions on your own life and, at the exact same time, be willing to give a free pass to those who put your very health, your freedoms at direct risk. And we aren't talking about the "vulnerable" here, we are talking about a large group of people, quite a few of them anti-vaxers, who simply refuse to get vaccinated.

The penny is going drop eventually.

Put restrictions on their lives, not ours.

We haven't tried that yet.

francogarbanzo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190417#Comment_118190417

The only people putting my freedoms at risk are those in power and the people who vote for them. No "anti-vaxer" has ever stopped me at a roadside checkpoint and ask for physical proof that I was going to a doctor's appointment.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190436#Comment_118190436

Ah your one of those. It's someone else' fault. It's the people in power.

The people who have to correct it for all of us on behalf of the feckless are the ones who are at fault.

See that person not wearing their mask in your local store because they couldn't be bothered or have notions?

Talk to that person, blame them for a change.

You are all the same. Zero personal responsibility and that's why we are where we are.

It's up to people, not health systems to solve this problem.

Oscar Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190343#Comment_118190343

What about peoply dying against their will?

Well done, Austria.

growleaves

Austrians should sue the government and, if that fails, seek asylum in a country without forced vaccinations.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190386#Comment_118190386

At the risk of being accused of pedantry, as far as I know no country on earth has legally forced anyone to get vaccinated.

Coercion is a better word, but even that isn't very accurate as there is no force or threat, there's simply the application of conditionality to a civil right (e.g. access to a particular public space) based on whether you have antibodies which lower the risk, a requirement which you can meet if you're vaccinated or recovered.

Some people like to use words like apartheid, but this isn't right either, since that relates to the differentiation of rights based on who people are, not what they have done.

For instance, there are certain types of work you cannot do if you have engaged in certain types of antisocial behaviour. Recently I underwent a security vetting process for a police force which was designed to reduce the risk associated with my access to sensitive data. I would not consider the application of this vetting to be a question of civil rights. Similarly I don't consider some countries introducing requirements for healthcare workers to be vaccinated to be a civil rights issue, but a workplace rights issue.

I'm not arguing for covid certs, I'm just trying to be precise about what's going on here.

growleaves

Lumen but we're not discussing covid certs, we're discussing Austria's saying it is going to force people to get vaccinated.

Not exactly sure what that will entail, it's just a headline so far.

francogarbanzo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190484#Comment_118190484

Well, for your sake let's hope more people just cop on and comply their way out of this. By the way, not sure what Ireland you're living in, but in the country I live in, practically everyone is vaccinated and wears a mask indoors. Not sure what else you expect.

Anyway, back to Austria...

FlubberJones

Good, get everyone vaccinated, then things will be easier and safer to open up....

Lol, these clowns against vaccines, they accomplish nothing, and look like fools

rovers_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190484#Comment_118190484

Simple example for a person like yourself to understand:

Person A goes to coffee shop and meets unvaccinated friend (who in unaware they currently have Covid19).

Person B goes to another coffee shop and meets vaccinated friend (who is also unaware they currently have Covid19).

Person A and Person B both contract Covid19.

Who is at fault, and who isn't?

Should friend of A be treated any differently than friend of B, or would Person A's friend be castigated for something besides the point?

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190525#Comment_118190525

OK, so I think we should be clear about what "force people to get vaccinated" means.

IMO it means "apply criminal sanctions to people who have not been vaccinated". So even if you stay at home, the mere fact of you existing in an unvaccinated state is illegal.

It could be argued that making most civil rights conditional on vaccination amounts to "forced vaccination", but I would prefer other language, otherwise everything on the continuum from indoor dining to working in hospitals to leaving your own private property could be argued to be "forced vaccination" depending on the importance you attach to those activities.

TonyMaloney

With a population of just over 9 million and 15,000 cases yesterday, Austria are rapidly approaching the equivalent of NPHET's worst case scenario. Which many of you claim is impossible here for some reason.

They're in a terrible state. I think it comes down to human rights. Does your right to decide not to get vaccinated trump everyone elses right to access healthcare?

Ideally nothing like this would ever have to be done, but the world has gone nuts.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190541#Comment_118190541

the difference is that the friend of A is contagious for a shorter period and at a lower level. I've kept it simple so you can understand it.

Amadan Dubh

"Get vaccinated so you can also be locked at home like the other vaccinated". Great sales pitch.

FlubberJones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190541#Comment_118190541

Unvaccinated friend should not be in the coffee shop... they should be in lockdown, they have chosen to ignore medical advice and are idiots.

growleaves

Do you agree with applying criminal sanctions, i.e. prison, to people who haven't been vaccinated?

Being able to leave your house is indeed necessary for civil rights. Are you seriously claiming a person who can't leave their house is not being placed under duress?

rovers_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190562#Comment_118190562

A shorter period at a lower level means sweet FA. How does a person know when that threshold has been crossed? They don't.

francogarbanzo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190581#Comment_118190581

Honestly sick and tired of the fat-phobic sentiment around here.

Dyr

Its sorta funny that after all previous efforts to stop the spread of this yoke have failed that politicians think the solution is to do even more of the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_znElks13UA

Chips Lovell

Only a matter of time before it happens here too. Will probably take extended vaccine mandates (including workplaces) and widening vaccination to over-5s.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190583#Comment_118190583

i tried to keep it simple but clearly not simple enough.

Lumen

@growleaves wrote

Do you agree with applying criminal sanctions, i.e. prison, to people who haven't been vaccinated?

No. I can imagine a situation where we had a deadlier virus and/or a more effective vaccine where I might be in favour of this, but not for the virus and vaccines we have in this case.

@growleaves wrote

Are you seriously claiming a person who can't leave their house is not being placed under duress?

No. "Under duress" is a good phrase, if the objective is for them to get vaccinated.

No real surprise that it's Austria doing this. Expect more to follow.

I'm 100% opposed to this.

Atlantic Dawn

I think those dogs that can detect COVID are the world's best hope, have them stationed around areas people congregate.