Toyota bz4X

Mach Two

How long would it take to charge the BZ4X from empty to full on a standard socket.

In cold weather let's say hovering around 0°C all day how much a day on a percentage basis would the battery deplete daily.

Can a tow bar be fitted to it.

Redfox25

Standard granny socket will give you 2kw per hour of charging, divide the battery by 2 and that gives you the answer. 35 ish hours. Most folks get home chargers, circa 7kw per hour so 10 ish hours from empty to full, which is a bit of an extreme as its unlikely you will be driving to 0% before charging. Or maybe not?

Battery usage depends on your driving, distance and speeds.

vimalandrew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121817309#Comment_121817309

I am very comfortable with home charging. I got half rate from 11pm to 8 am. I just plug in before sleep and due to my charger app setting, charging will start only at 11pm and usually battery will have 20 percent charge. In the morning, I can see that battery is full. I usually drive 700km a week and charge 3 times. Some sources suggest do only 80 percent charging to get a good battery life. Not sure it is right or not.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818799#Comment_121818799

Some sources suggest do only 80 percent charging to get a good battery life. Not sure it is right or not.

If your battery is not LFP (the BZ4X battery is not LFP) it's usually not recommended to be charging to 100% every session.

Toyota however say otherwise, and are happy for folk to charge to 100% on AC, but not on DC... which seems odd as 100% is 100%

How frequently do I have to charge it?

We recommend charging as often as needed to maintain a sufficient state of charge for your anticipated trips, with consideration of available charging methods at your destinations.

Depending on the type of charger, we recommend charging to certain limits to maintain the long-term battery health.

AC (Level 1 and Level 2): Go ahead and charge to 100%. Once 100% is reached, it will stop charging to help preserve the battery.

DC Fast Charging (Level 3): We recommend charging to 80% to achieve the maximum benefit of the quick charging speed. It is possible to charge to 100% with this method, but the charging rate will automatically be reduced once it reaches 80% to help preserve the battery. To help maintain long-term battery health, DC Fast Charging should be limited to two cycles of charging (Low Light to 80%) per day throughout the year.

I wonder though should they re-look at this since they had to unlock some of the battery buffer..?

petronelduca

Checking the 100% state of charge with an OBD reader and Car Scanner app, I see the actual state of charge for the battery is some 95%, give or take.

This is probably why they're not too bother if the user is charging to what shows as 100% on the dash board.

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820125#Comment_121820125

You've lost 5% of the capacity already?

petronelduca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820149#Comment_121820149

I would not think so, it was like this since the 1st month of ownership. I believe it is more to do with the actual access for us, the end users to the usable capacity only. I have also noticed when the battery charge shows like 2-3% on the dashboard, the Car Scanner app shows 4-5-6%. I suspect the numbers we normally see on the dashboard are not showing the top and the bottom values correctly, in order to preserve the battery's health.

eagerv

No problem charging to 100% if using the car more or less straight away. Non lfp don’t like be left at full charge for a long period.

Hopefully any big degradation of the battery will be in the first year or two. Usually slows up after that.

Mach Two

How much will the battery deplete daily during cold weather?

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121822414#Comment_121822414

If the car isn't being used? Is that what you mean? Otherwise it's an impossible question to answer as it depends on your type of driving. I'm driving a Cupra Born and the battery doesn't go down when the car is unused for a few days.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121822414#Comment_121822414

I think it's pretty fair to say you loose 20 to 30% range during winter months. That's November to march id say from my experience. Once average temps get above 15 degrees things improve.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121822468#Comment_121822468

I'd agree, it's only for a few days really my range has improved a lot lately.

yermanthere

Regarding battery health, and charging. Current science is saying that most damaging practice is hot and fast charging. Meaning battery is hot, and then you fast charge. You're talking long drives in 30 degrees heat, with fast charging directly after.

Second worst practice is leaving a hot battery at 100% for extended period (12 hours, or more).

Third worse is depleting battery to less than 10%.

These are sliding scale, as in the top one significantly shortens battery life. Heat kills battery chemistry.

Doing any of this a couple of times a year is a non-issue. Doing it every week will see big changes within 2-3 years.

yermanthere

Absolute best practice is to keep battery at 40-70%.

But that's not realistic, which is where the 20-80% thought process comes in.

And, as said above Toyota have over-engineered their safety buffers. Car won't charge too fast (stopping heat). And car is never fully full ( protecting cell), or completely empty. AC charging, to 70-80%, is optimal practice.

All this kinda shows that used car market will soon need to provide proper battery health checks, because no 2 cars will be the same.

petronelduca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121824477#Comment_121824477

How would this sit with Toyota warranty when one goes year on year for servicing the car with them? If after 10 years and less than 1milion km the state of health is below 70%, will they provide a new battery?

If you don't mind, can you provide the source to back up what you're stating?

I do not think we have enough data available for bz4xs given the fact they're fairly new on the market.

Screenshot_20240227-055219.png

The screenshot was done this morning after a full charge, and yet, this is only 94.6%.

Im back now with 8% left on the dashboard, however I did not take a screen shot for car scanner.

yermanthere

https://youtu.be/y9WqIEAYwZo?si=OI_ZcEeDzAQvwTMD

yermanthere

Seems to be like I mentioned. Toyota buffers are bigger than other brands. @petronelduca you were indicating 100%, and scanners says much less. So preventing overcharge.

And to be clear, there's nothing hugely wrong with charging to 100%. The damage can occur when battery is left at 100% for days. Or in a hot environment. Which is why BMS has buffers. Because Toyota has to try and protect car from worst case owner scenario.But good practice is still good practice.

Same as regular oil changes in ICE. Remember long-life oil changes? And the long term damage they've caused. And in fairness to BZ, Tesla has battery info for years and million miles. Even Bjorn has found his data shows a life of fast charge shows most degradation to battery. The data is out there, even if it's not Toyota.

And Toyota " out of date" and " overly cautious BMS" , " poor charging speeds" and 64kw useable of a 71kw battery may be the best plan long term. Ensuring close to 64kw useable for the longest time. But only time will tell. Tesla and Hyundai plan of giving max range and max charge speed could backfire in 10 year old cars. But only time will tell. And tbh , 70% of range/useable battery after 10 years? You'd want that in any EV, that's fairly catastrophic.

Sorry for long post!

Mach Two

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121822450#Comment_121822450

Yes. I should have stated if the car is not used.

petronelduca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121825670#Comment_121825670

Took a screenshot on Car Scanner when the dashboard was displaying 5% charge left this evening.

Screenshot_20240301-213831.png

Actual power left in the battery is nearly 13%. So, when the car shows 0% left, it will still have some 7-8% left. Adding the 5% not displayed when the car is fully charged, we can safely say that 12% of the battery are kept as buffer by the battery management system. This is going hand in hand with Toyota's stated 64kwh availability from the 71 kwh total capacity.

What I'm trying to say is that I believe we are safe to charge/discharge the battery to full/empty levels.. It's only my opinion.

Mach Two

Back to my original question. How much will the battery deplete daily when the car is not being used during cold weather conditions. Let's say averaging 0°C all day.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121843171#Comment_121843171

Much less than 1%, if it even depletes at all. Negligible. I left mine in airport for a week at low charge and it didn't deplete at all as far as I know.

Mach Two

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121843383#Comment_121843383

Was that in frosty weather?