Will you be taking a booster?

TefalBrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346074#Comment_118346074

There is zero downside tbh. Laughable to hear the cranks on here giving out about it.

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346179#Comment_118346179

very few are against vaccines

but many people are against mandatory vaccines especially for children

i hope you can understand that, I really do

I don’t care if you have a 100 jabs or you give your children vaccines

but don’t lecture me what to do with my body and my children, that is none of Anyones business

TefalBrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346202#Comment_118346202

I could care less what you do with your body or your kids and i never said squat about mandatory vaccines.

I commented on how it's laughable to hear others give out about people queuing up for vaccines like it's any of their business.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346178#Comment_118346178

Yes. But that is semantics. Suppose Jimmy and John are both alcoholics with damaged livers. Jimmy gives up and tries to give his liver a chance to recover. 6 months later they both need transplants. There is one liver available. The doctors reason that it won't benefit John as he refuses to stop drinking and there is more chance of success for Jimmy. If they had unlimited livers available and only two people needing them then both would get one.

Similarly, should resources become constrained, then the resources need to be prioritised for those who benefit most. If there are two covid patients and one is vaccinated and one not, then it would be reasonable to conclude that the vaccinated individual likely has a better chance of recovery and should get the bed.

We do treat alcholics and smokers but we don't have a blank cheque for them. There is no reason why we should have a blank cheque for anti-vaxxers. If you wanna take the chance and roll the dice because you are afraid of a little jab then you should live with the consequences, or die with them if it comes to that. I"ll reserve my sympathies for those who did their best and still were unfortunate to succumb - not the scroungers who refused to contribute.

The above doesn't even take into account that the vaccine is a social good and necessity for the population overall. Alcoholism isn't physically contagious.

If ya wanna opt out, then opt out. Go bitch to Jim Corr if ya end up needing hospitalization.

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346210#Comment_118346210

Sure you were

I find it laughable to see cranks on here giving out about people who are giving out about people who are queuing for Boosters

what business is it of theirs

Finty Lemon

How many fatalities due to vaccination have there been in Ireland to date?

Will there be a wave of deaths next week given all the people getting done today?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346149#Comment_118346149

They gave you an answer. Do you even read the posts or are you just ranting away to yourself? Very easy to agree with yourself when you ignore posts you dont have an answer to.

"Neither of those 3 scenarios above cause a personal medical issue for the professionals caring for them, covid quite simply does and has killed medical professionals."

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346246#Comment_118346246

That’s not an acceptable answer

how many doctors and nurses in Ireland have died from treating covid?

i await your reply which is I’ll have links to all kinds of mumbo jumbo, but will not answer my question

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346218#Comment_118346218

Similarly, should resources become constrained, then the resources need to be prioritised for those who benefit most. If there are two covid patients and one is vaccinated and one not, then it would be reasonable to conclude that the vaccinated individual likely has a better chance of recovery and should get the bed.

That is not a reasonable conclusion at all. Vaccination status is not an indicator of treatment outcome.

costacorta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346056#Comment_118346056

Could be worse my friends father got vaccinated and died one day after he was hit by a truck. No way would it have happened if he wasn’t vaccinated. Some really sad stories on here about vaccine.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345814#Comment_118345814

they are part of the way out.

not taking the booster is not going to be a viable method of sticking it to the government, you will be counted as not being vaccinated if you don't take it in all likely hood and will have to be restricted, as the rights of those of us who take the vaccines to go about our business with only the very necessary restrictions over rules those of the deliberately unvaccinated and their attempts to hold the rest of us to ransom.

so by all means don't take the booster but you aren't going to win whatever it is you are looking for by not taking it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346284#Comment_118346284

It actually is. Very much so. If you are vaccinated you have less chance of needing hospitalistion than someone who is not vaccinated. If you are hospitalised and vaccinated, you have less chance of needing ICU than someone who is hospitalised and not vaccinated etc. So when the latter is presenting for hospitalisation, they have a statistically higher chance of a negative outcome compared to the former presenting for hospitalisation.

We could decide as a society to divert resources back into other general areas and have less beds for covid then have to make choices as to who gets covid treatment.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345870#Comment_118345870

nobody can say they are at 0 threat of the virus, because3 realistically one does not know for sure how their body will react should they actually get it.

they could be fine, they could be seriously ill, they may get it and not know they even had it.

being under 65 only means you are at less risk from the virus, not no risk.

the advantages of getting the booster are that you are again at less risk, and when we go back to having lesser restrictions again, you won't be classed as unvaccinated which is likely what will happen for those who don't take the booster quite rightly.

for those of us who are vaccinated, we more or less have exited restrictions, wear a mask is about it now.

all that has happened is that this new varient means that high risk transmitter industries are having to have some restrictions imposed on them while we gain new information on the new varient.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346268#Comment_118346268

Not an acceptable answer?

I dont know what this gibberish is... like your other fake claims about vaccines when you were asked to back them up.

Health care workers have died in Ireland and elsewhere from covid, have been hospitalised and importantly have been unable to do their job because they are sick or isolating from covid. So it is different to obesity or alcoholism in that regard and the government is right to treat it differently to encourage vaccination.

Even without going so far as denying ICU treatment... In Singapore unvaccinated patients are charged for covid treatment.

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346320#Comment_118346320

How many died in Ireland

answer the question or stop preaching

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346218#Comment_118346218

Ireland just won't let it get to that stage, full lockdowns would be in place.

But vaccines aren't mandatory, but it is completely hypocritical to complain about restrictions and not be vaccinated. I don't really count the booster in this, until there is data saying otherwise, this BBC article covers some of it, with quotes from experts in the field, but the data is needed (i.e. London over the next 2 weeks should tell us everything):

Omicron: Why do boosters work if two doses struggle? - BBC News

It will be interesting to see the reinfection rate of Omicron of those who were previously infected.

I would also not that the confirmed reinfection rate for the virus is artificially low as it's quite difficult to calculate (you need to test, figure out the strain, then on the next test verify it's a different infection), the probable and possible reinfection rates are much higher and Omicron may push it much higher again.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346109#Comment_118346109

they don't really as in the case of those issues, the individuals involved aren't attempting to hold the country to ransom.

now for what it is worth i disagree with that poster's suggestion, all though i certainly can understand why they are annoyed enough to suggest it given that for most who are unvaccinated there is no excuse or justification to not be so.

only for a certain number who have medical reasons there is a justification and those individuals have as much right as the rest of us to go about their business without attempts to hold them to ransom by the deliberately unvaccinated.

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346385#Comment_118346385

Passive smoking

communities ruined by alcoholism and drug addiction

you can’t kid a kidder

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346338#Comment_118346338

"Stop preaching..." I see you rolling out the debating tricks because your argument has no backup like your fake claims about vaccines.

I dont need to answer arbitrary questions. The point stands that treating unvaxxed covid patients is different to treating the other categories listed in terms of the risk to the health of medical staff and their ability to do their jobs and the stress it places on the staff.

Now... back to the boosters

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346384#Comment_118346384

I would also not that the confirmed reinfection rate for the virus is artificially low as it's quite difficult to calculate (you need to test, figure out the strain, then on the next test verify it's a different infection), the probable and possible reinfection rates are much higher and Omicron may push it much higher again.

May/probable/possible. There's a shedload of conjecture in that statement. It's just as likely, actually more likely going on current data that reinfection from covid 19 variant or no is a very low percentage of the previously infected. And "natural" infection seems to hold protection for longer - Though I would NOT suggest that route rather than vaccination as clever. On the booster front and according to the HSE if you've been confirmed positive with covid 19 you should wait six months before getting a booster, however if you've been vaccinated you should wait three. On the one hand covid infection apparently gives six months likely protection, but the vaccines are more likely to tap out at three, yet at the same time vaccination gives better protection? Just a tad contradictory. Smells of the same givernment spin over Magic Masks early in the campaign to keep PPE supplies for medical staff in place. This time it's to dumb it down to keep vaccines foremost as the solution(and they are for the moment). And again for the hard of reading ready to pounce - I do NOT suggest covid infection as a sensible way to get longer lasting protection.

tomgrange1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346439#Comment_118346439

The point does not stand as you made a bold statement and when pressed on it you change the subject

I will ask again - how many Irish doctors and nurses have died from covid because they treated covid patients

now answer the question or accept you are full of bull

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346463#Comment_118346463

Nope. You are just repeating your own tactic where you made strong claims about vaccines which disappeared once challenged.

Im not changing the subject-this is the booster thread you are attempting to derail with anti vax disinformation.

Steve012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346290#Comment_118346290

Vaccines are part of the way out? that was said a year ago, very little has changed unfortunately..

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346442#Comment_118346442

It's the wording used in the official study from the UK that I can't seem to place right now (old user called godzilla posted it, but on reading it, reinfection chance was about the same chance as infection post vaccination), biggest problem is finding the relevant studies from earlier in the pandemic as they get swamped by newer ones, this one is from a few days ago, you can see the same language being used:

Reinfection with new variants of SARS-CoV-2 after natural infection: a prospective observational cohort in 13 care homes in England - The Lancet Healthy Longevity

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346543#Comment_118346543

lots has changed, we are open and so far have managed to avoid another actual lock down.

yes the pubs etc have had some extra restrictions re-introduced but that was always going to happen with a new varient while the experts gather the data and facts on it, and those restrictions will be in all likely hood short term.

Steve012

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346599#Comment_118346599

Hopefully short term,

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346550#Comment_118346550

And just to extrapolate on it a little bit, it's an area we kind of take for granted and like to only deal in the absolute truths (yes/no) whereas scientists, especially around biology, it's all about probability until they cut you open and confirm (and even then, it's only what probably killed you), it's also why, when looking at the same dataset, a scientist in the field will react very differently to a layman using acquired knowledge to come to a conclusion and misunderstand what the intent in gathering the data was.

To confirm a reinfection within ~6 months, someone must:

1. Be infected with a variant of SARS-COV2 (it was about about 10% of the population in a year, so 5% in 6 months, peaks and troughs make this more difficult)
2. Have enough symptoms to go and get tested
3. Have the variant figured out
4. That person go back to normal life (are they now more or less cautious then before), have them fully clear the viral load (so wait "enough" time)
5. Be reinfected (is that now a 2.5% of 5% chance over three months?)
6. Have enough symptoms to go and get tested
7. Get tested and come back positive then do the test to compare the strain to confirm it's different and not the original infection

That gives a confirmed reinfection (and the study has struck gold). Most else is just probable or possible.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346550#Comment_118346550

Certainly Astro, but note "care homes", one of the most dangerous and virus rich environments to study. Where both the residents and staff have much more exposure and risk compared to the background population. And even there: SARS-CoV-2 reinfections were rare in older residents and younger staff. Protection from SARS-CoV-2 was sustained for longer than 9 months, including against the alpha variant. Reinfection was associated with no or low neutralising antibody before reinfection, but significant boosting occurred on reinfection.

Nine months. That's currently way better than the vaccines. Though I would suspect it's likely not. That immune system memory in the majority is holding against reinfection and will likely hold similarly in the general vaccinated and previously infected population outside of those who have poor immune responses.

thebronze14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346290#Comment_118346290

It's not really sticking it to the government or anything. I don't see the point at this moment in time. You have to start asking questions though about why they have to restrict people's freedoms to take a booster that will make very little difference to their health and of those around them. If it helped with herd immunity or made a big difference in stopping the spread of covid I'd say fair enough. I do think over 50s and younger people at risk should get it but it feels almost like bullying the likes of me into getting one especially when it has feck all benefit for me or even for the greater good of the country. When my covid cert is about to run out I'll assess things then, and if a more effective vaccine comes out then I'm all over it but it just seems utterly pointless at this stage. They'd be better sending my booster over to a developing country where it would be of more benefit.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346663#Comment_118346663

The previous study wasn't care homes (more linked for the language used and that I wasn't making it up 😊), will post it when I find it again.