NCT Emissions fail Yaris

mrperty2011

Hi

01 Yaris failed retest on emissions again. Few garages won’t look at. First garage said fixed hole in exhaust but emissions still high

Fail 1 : CO 0.79 vol%. Lambda passed 1.01

Fail 2: Lamda 1.08

Second fail ran the car hard 30 mins in high Rev. Bottle of dipetane the day before probably should have put in earlier

Was looking to scrap next year but what’s people’s thoughts putting in final retest. Other that that runs smooth I have had for 20 years 😞

thanks

costacorta

If you are only trying to get another year out of it just drive away without nct cert . Most guards will give a few months anyway if your unlucky enough to be stopped. Worse case scenario car be taken off you but that wouldn’t be done unless over 4 months out of date .

Old car owners typically do not remember when was made the last full service. Please do not fire the parts cannon, first I suggest to make a diagnostics for that car. DIY or garage, it is your decision. This is small simple car what every real mechanic understand easily.

mrperty2011

Thanks all waiting to hear back from another mechanic

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184034#Comment_118184034

So why not come up with some suggestions what the OP should be looking at?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118186173#Comment_118186173

Because that is too wide topic to just guess. It is easier to make a health check first and then make a suggestions.

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058218461/nct-emissions-fail-yaris

I'll admit to not knowing much about the Toyota Yaris, but most cars (petrol) are the same on some basic levels so I'll give a hint or starting spot.

Second lambda fail could be the second O2 sensor. It located after the catalytic converter and is a simply plug and play repair. Not cheap at roughly €45 and up. Don't go cheap on these as the cheap ones will not give the proper performance and you'll end up buying twice.

The high CO reading could be a few things, but check the exhaust for holes/leaks and have it repaired or replaced. Then do a service, even a mini one, focusing on oil, oil filter, and air filters. Use a fuel additive, as you've done, and make sure car is at running temp before presenting for test. A good drive, not necessarily a hard drive, is always best.

Worst case scenario is a faulty cat which mean new cat. Again not cheap with prices starting in the €200 for the cheap makes and double that for more expensive makes. At this point you might need to consider the cost benefit of such a repair against the value of the car.

I'm not suggesting to just go and start buying parts. There will be a limited amount you could buy to solve the problems, but you're looking at €300 minimum and upwards of €700 if you decided to just start buying parts and that is before labour (if you're not doing the work yourself). The lambda sensor and service might be cheap enough at about €100-ish for parts, but up to €150, and then whatever labour costs you (again if not doing it yourself). If its the Cat I'd suggest scrapping, unless you have some sentimental attachment to the car.

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182833#Comment_118182833

Sorry, what now?

When did An Gardaí start giving 4 months "grace". No NCT, afaik, is the same as no insurance. IOW its an immediate seizure of the car. The only grace you get is with motor tax and that grace extends only to the car not being able to be seized for 60 days but you still face FPN and possible court.

The 4 months NCT extension only applied to cars due their test between 29th March 2020 and July 31st 2020 which would have come and gone by now. Any car without a valid NCT can be seized immeidately and a FPN/Court appearance to follow. So by telling the OP to just drive away you're giving poor advice, bordering on illegal.

Now if someone can point me to the 4 months "grace" you speak off then I'll immediately issue an apology, but with 15 months since the NCT re-opened there is no extensions and no leeway I know of when it comes to no NCT. The Garda twitter feed would seem to support this given the dozens of cars seized daily with no NCT, insurance, etc.

costacorta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118194487#Comment_118194487

Once you can show that you had done test and failed just say your waiting for retest as you were waiting on a part .

I don’t know just a suggestion but I’m driving 35 yrs and I could count on my two hands the amount of time I have been stopped at a checkpoint.

Tax and insurance are taken a lot more seriously with guards but they wouldn’t take a car that was less than 3 months tax off you insurance yes

They would issue you with a fine though . How many times a week ear do you meet a checkpoint? .

up to yourself I was just thinking if not worth fixing that’s what I would do or else just get another car .

elperello

Apparently NCT deferrals are still a thing.

One of my cars was due for NCT on 12/11/21.

On 14/10/21 I got an email saying deferred to 13/3/22.

Pasted below part of email -

"This is notification of a deferral of your NCT.

This is notification of a deferral of your NCT as a result of COVID 19, the Minister of Transport, Tourism and Sport announced a 4 month NCT certificate extension for vehicles with a test due date on or after the 28th March 2020.

As a result of this announcement, your NCT has been deferred, your new test due date is 13/03/2022. You will not receive a new NCT certificate to reflect this new test due date and An Garda Síochána have been notified.

Your vehicle should be presented for NCT based on your new test due date 13/03/2022 and you can book online nearer this date."

I have printed it and carry it in the car.

Of course this does not apply to the OP and I'm only posting for general information as there will be cars out there with out of date discs which it seems are legal.

Cass

Costacorta - Once you can show that you had done test and failed just say your waiting for retest as you were waiting on a part .

The law says the only time you may drive a car that has failed an NCT and is without a valid cert is to go to and from the NCT centre or to and from a "garage" or other repair place. You may not drive it as normal. It is subject to seizure.

Costacorta - I don’t know just a suggestion but I’m driving 35 yrs and I could count on my two hands the amount of time I have been stopped at a checkpoint.

Same as that. Driving close to 30 years and met as little checkpoints as yourself (barring the covid ones over the last 20 months which far outnumber the amount in the past decades combined), but all it takes is one.

Costacorta - Tax and insurance are taken a lot more seriously with guards but they wouldn’t take a car that was less than 3 months tax off you insurance yes

Insurance yes, tax no. Not that Tax is not an issue but again iirc the road traffic act only allows for a motor vehicle to be seized if the tax if more than 60 days expired. Anything under 60 days (2 months, not even 3) and its a FPN and/or court (depending on amount of offences leading up to the 60 day "limit).

Costacorta - They would issue you with a fine though . How many times a week ear do you meet a checkpoint? .

Rarely, if ever (again not taking Covid into account which is silly given the Garda presence over the last 20 months), but my checkpoint encounters ar emeaningless in the context of this thread. its the OP's choice and it is they who would "run the gauntlet".

Costacorta - up to yourself I was just thinking if not worth fixing that’s what I would do or else just get another car .

I appreciate what you're saying, and without being a "Buzzkillington" the advice of "just drive away" is one thing (not recommended) if it comes with the warning label of "its not legal" but to say that An Gardaí could/would not do anything because of a non existant 4 month "grace" period is wrong and the OP should know no such provision exists.

Having the car, potentially, seized is a sure way to settle the what to do dilemna, but if the OP only gets scrap value for the car Id sooner that than a FPN, recovery fee, and/or possible court date. I'd sooner park the car up, rent, borrow or make some alternative arrangments before I'd suggest something that is illegal.

Cass

elperello - Of course this does not apply to the OP and I'm only posting for general information as there will be cars out there with out of date discs which it seems are legal.

That is my point too.

I really don't want to be "that guy" that goes looking for people that are "wrong on the internet". Its not my intent and frankly its a pointless/fruitless endeavour. A deferral is, as you rightly pointed out, much different to a "grace" period, especially when the latter does not exist. The fact the OP has a test date means its not a deferral.

Now if the OP has some time left on the current cert, then drive away, however it will be at most 90 days (assuming they booked on the first day into the 90 day from expiration of the current cert timeframe).

However the chips fall the OP has a decision to make before the expriation fot he current cert. Fix and retest, or scrap and go for another car.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118194724#Comment_118194724

Yes, it's hard lines on the OP having to go looking for a car when second hand prices are so high but it's probably the best option.

Spending a lot on a car that's not worth the cost of repair seldom makes sense.

Cass

elperello - Spending a lot on a car that's not worth the cost of repair seldom makes sense.

If only I could take that advice. Have a 2004 Vectra and to be fair to it, it hasn't caused me any problems in over 10 years, but I'm terrible for sinking money into it that I know is "wasted" by anyone else's standard (mine too if it were someone else's car).

Cheap 2nd hand cars time is over and does not come back soon. It is better to fix current one than buy another money hole. Even that small car price can be soon thousands of euros.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118194944#Comment_118194944

I think you are right, very few bargains out there.

Lot's of people holding on to their cars.

They all come to an end some day and knowing when to give up is the trick.

mrperty2011

Thanks all got a quote of €300 for Faulty air mass sensor and faulty oxygen sensor. Boot gas springs gone now as well. Going to get rid and get 2nd hand in Jan. Was keeping more for sentimental. Still remember buying in April 2001.

lalababa

Awe, pity. Keep her on the road for 300?

You don't know what you might be buying into....!

lalababa

Many miles on her? How's the body and paint etc..?

Cass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118198004#Comment_118198004

Surprised at the MAF being replaced, or needing to be replaced. Usually if the MAF is gone it'll throw a fault on bank 1 sensor but according to your post above it passed. Not to say its not at fault, just a curiosity.

mrperty2011

153k on the clock. Body and paint perfect. Now you making me feel guilty. Only run around. We have main car. Looks like MAF replaced in past with cheap knockoff.

Cass

mrperty2011 - Looks like MAF replaced in past with cheap knockoff.

They'll always fail ya. Had it myself a few years back. Replaced mine with what was described as the exact part but for a 1/3 of the price (which in itself should have been a warning flag). Ran worse than with the old one and when I took it back out and ran the serial number through 7zap it was for a Zafira and not a Vectra. Paid €189 for the proper one and never a bother with it since.

I've a fiesta sitting out the back of my house here. Bought it brand new for my Mother's 60th, about 16 years ago. Never gave a days trouble and when he got her new car I couldn't part with it. Young lad used it as his first car and its used from time to time as the "go between" if anyone's car is in the garage or off the road. Doubt it'll ever be sold but its a shame to see it sit there not being used. Like yourself have to balance sentimentality against practicality.

Do you reckon you will sell?

mrperty2011

Thanks decisions decisions. Have a think about it over weekend with other half. I have been saying 1 more year for last 5 years. Owes us nothing at this stage. Has been fairly bulletproof and never let us down.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118198004#Comment_118198004

Everyone can read the DTC but this is not diagnostics. I do not understand these people who think they are "kings" if they have a scan tools. It only helps to guide you. The best what that type of guys can to do is swapnostics. Swap all components, you get high bill and the same old problem.

DTC reading (Done) / actuation (bi-directional)

Service manuals / wiring diagrams (hard to find free)

Actual readings / circuit testing (multimeter / oscilloscope / test light / resistor decade box)

Fault finding

Now look all DTC and try to figure out how many codes is for same thing/area. MAF and O2 ia heavily related (typically). Compare the real measures by what computer sees. Some differences is completely ok because OBD2 data is heavily processed and does not match 1:1 by oscilloscope waveform. Off the chart readings does not mean instantly the sensor is bad, sensor just can read that value thanks for something else is broken. You can always make your life easier by eliminating part of the circuit (only what is possible)

Ok it is really simplified diagnostics and may require many-many extra steps. Most important is to have service manuals / wiring diagrams. If anyone try without, good luck. Simple car like your does not take too long but more modern one they never figure out the things. Another thing is to use proper testing instrument for specific testing.

mrperty2011

Update Yaris passed on 3rd attempt. Replaced air mass sensor and oxygen sensor. Onto year 21. Thanks all for your advice

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118223220#Comment_118223220

She lives !

How much did it cost?

mrperty2011

€250 parts and labour. 2nd mechanic

Cass

Thats not too bad. Sensor was probably about €50 but as high as €90 (or cheapest I could see), and the MAF would be at least a €100, if not more.

The labour wouldn't have been too much, but if you don't know what to do its best to go with a mechanic.

Well done. Any other advisories or "issues". Might be an idea to get on top of them before next. Only 4 more years, is it, to vintage/classic level?

mrperty2011

No further issues and advisories. Weight off mind now it has passed thanks

hamburg

i remember changing the 2nd post cat sensor on a workmates 03 yaris, toyota garage had pinpointed this part as the culprit but wanted 300 euro to supply and fit. workmate says no thank you mr T and i got the gig. i got a meat and doria o2 sensor from the local factors but was surprised when i took it out of the box to find that it was marked bosch. cost 90 euro i think. anyway went to fit it with a 22mm spanner and could i get the old one off? could i fcuk!!! it was welded on. i eventually had to remove the whole exhaust and lock it in a bench vice before the bugger broke loose. anyway new one fitted,exhaust back on, nct passed and that car is still on the road with around 300,000 mils on it. the only thing that kills toyota's is rust. glad you kept yours going.

If you have that kind of situation, just cut the cable off and use regular deep socket and long bar. These special sockets is good only if you like to save the sensor.