Would you support Ireland ending the common travel area with Britain?

Would you support Ireland ending the common travel area with Britain?

I personally hate the idea of British people being allowed to live and work in Ireland following Brexit but also after the recent amnesties that were given to British soldiers who committed murders during the troubles. I think its wrong we have this kind of relationship with them considering they think so little about these peoples rights.

I spent some time living in Scotland and all I can say is that there is no real solidarity between Ireland and Scotland - Scotland seems pretty comfortable being part of the Union. It has also been suggested by political leaders here that separatism comes with its ''dangers'' and Ireland is often cited as an example. I was never one to question Ireland's fight for liberation- I always regarded it as a legitimate one. The Scottish on the other hand - do and I think Irish people should be concerned about that.

Irish people are definitely regarded as foreigners here and the political relationship and mentality between the two countries are worlds apart and are at times - frosty. The impression I get here is that the UK can do no wrong and they never question their role abroad or what they have done in the past. If they really feel like this, then I suggest the relationship with them should be ended.

Does anyone else feel the same?

No.

con747

+1

interlocked

You can't do it without a hard policed border. It's not possible.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130110#Comment_118130110

There must be alternatives

@interlocked

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216788/would-you-support-ireland-ending-the-common-travel-area-with-britain

"If they really feel like this, then I suggest the relationship with them should be ended." That's precisely the kind of short-sighted thinking that landed the British with Brexit.

If you've spent any time living in Scotland in the last 15 years or so you should be well aware of the fact that Scotland is not comfortable being part of the Union. Almost 45% of voters voted to leave the United Kingdom in 2014, and support for Scottish independence still consistently runs at 45-50% of voters. Similarly, Scots voted by some 61-39 in favour of remaining in the EU, and Brexit has only added to the constitutional uncertainty in Scotland/ Those are not signs of a country at peace with its constitutional status.

I've heard SNP leaders cite Ireland as an example of why Scotland should leave the UK. I can't recall in recent years hearing a Scottish unionist citing Ireland as an example of why Scotland should stay.

Of course Irish people are regarded as foreigners in the UK. That's because we ARE foreigners in the UK, just as they are foreigners here. Some Scots have issues in relation to nationalism and republicanism in the North. Again a person living in Scotland should be politically tuned-in enough to know that for the most part those Scots are generally British unionists rather than Scottish nationalists. On the other hand, a great many people in central Scotland and in the western Isles would feel a significant degree of connection and similarity with the Irish.

Relations between the two countries have been difficult; our history makes that unavoidable. But in more recent times things had improved significantly, until this ludicrous exercise in blinkered English nationalism called Brexit intervened. But Brexit is like all political developments; eventually things will find their level and we'll start to work on our mutual relationship again.

Leaving all that aside, the short answer is no. The CTA benefits both the UK and Ireland - and a couple of generations of Irish people were glad of the employment opportunities in the past. If we end the CTA, then it ends us. You might be ready to be thrown out of Scotland, but a lot of others aren't. And in any case, the CTA is central to implementing the GFA. As @interlocked says above, you can't end the CTA without a policed border - and that is the last thing this island needs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130124#Comment_118130124

If the British government is not prepared to protect Irish people's rights NOW then what hope is there for it in the future? We should not be turning a blind eye to this for the sake of ''business''.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ah, sure why not? Worked in North Korea - hardly any Brits over there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130148#Comment_118130148

I think you might be responding to something someone else said, or maybe something that popped into your head, but none of what you said in that post has any connection or relevance to what I said. The CTA is a mutual arrangement, within which Irish people have the right to travel freely to and within the UK, as well as the right to work and study. Allied to the CTA are other arrangements and rights, including for example the right of Irish citizens resident in the UK to vote in national and local elections. These are rights given to Irish people in law and vindicated by the legal institutions of the UK. In that regard, it isn't remotely clear what you mean when you refer to protecting the rights of Irish people.

Also, I repeat, if we go along with your suggestion that "the relationship with them should be ended", that'll also end the relationship with us - meaning we will leave a lot of Irish people who are currently resident in the UK with no rights to live and work there any more, as well as imposing passport checks and delays on people travelling between the two jurisdictions. You might be happy to be chucked out of Scotland, or else live there at the grace and pleasure of the authorities over there, but a lot of other Irish people living, working and studying there would not.

And also, if we get rid of the CTA we create documentation and identity checks at the frontier. And as I am sure you are aware, there is a 499 kilometre land frontier between the two passport zones on this island, on which there are at least 208 crossings. The Irish government and the European Union have spent the last 5 years trying to figure out how to prevent goods and identity checks at that frontier in the EU-UK Trade and Co-operation Agreement. The difficulties involved doing that are currently headline news. Removing the CTA would render all of those efforts pointless.

So, no, the suggestion in your OP is a really, really, really bad idea, and it is highly unlikely that any substantial number of Irish people would agree with it.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130222#Comment_118130222

Plus: why take away people's opportunities to freely travel and work in a large market on your door step?

Wanderer78

no

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130112#Comment_118130112

Why "must" there? Is it inaccurate to say you don't live on or near the border? The "softness" of the Republic/Northern Ireland border cannot be overstated and simply closing off access and transport between those territories would be total self-sabotage of border communities/economies. Get your GPS to travel from Monaghan to Cavan and you'll duck in and out of NI a few times, the N54 turning into the A3. That's not counting the myriad of towns and villages whose catchments crosses borders. Having an open border is the best solution, the NI Protocols purpose an attempt to preserve that open border in the face of Brexits stubborn ignorance of its own geographic structure.

Burty330

I support Ireland join the United Kingdom. Our hero's didn't die so this country could be ruled by foreign entities in Brussels. Ireland is a failed state. Get rid of it.. Support a united Britain!

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216788/would-you-support-ireland-ending-the-common-travel-area-with-britain

A definite no, but then you seem to have a very warped impression of international relations. You don't even seem to be able to grasp the concept of being a foreigner and why you are treated as one when you are outside the country.... so I really don't see much point it having a discussion until you up your level of understanding.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130112#Comment_118130112

Lets hear them then, since you are the one advocating it.....

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131138#Comment_118131138

I think we can all agree that Ireland has been far more successful than the hopelessly corrupt, horrifyingly unequal, economically shrinking UK - surely they should apologise and request submission to control from Dublin rather than the other way around?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130148#Comment_118130148

How is it the responsibility of the British government to protect Irish citizens rights? That is the role of the Irish government. We will act in our best interests and that includes maintaining the CTA. Most of your arguments are not in the best interests of the country, but relates to you personally and your feelings towards other races and we have a name for that.

Perhaps you have not heard of it, but there is an international agreement called the Good Friday Agreement. We are all signed up to it as to how Northern Ireland affairs are dealt with including how and if a United Ireland might come about. And that is the majority decision.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131138#Comment_118131138

In an ideal world a federal Britain might have been a powerful political union had it emerged from 1922. But the personalities involved at the time would have never agreed to such a concept and too much water had gone under the bridge by now.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131579#Comment_118131579

I'm guessing he's never heard of The Troubles or would see a return as a minor sacrafice.

Pretty sure this would mean ripping up the GFA, so it probably ain’t a good idea to be honest.

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216788/would-you-support-ireland-ending-the-common-travel-area-with-britain

No, greatly enjoy spending time in the UK and adore Scotland and have absolutely no issue with British people living and working in Ireland and vice versa, have some great British friends. Delighted Irish people have the option of living and working in the UK unhindered if they want to. Love the CTA agreement.

On one hand you are probably pouring scorn on the Brexit mob for being insular and anti foreigner and here you are posting this.

Seriously ??

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131643#Comment_118131643

It was the actions of the British government in the 19th century that Doomed the union of Britain and Ireland to failure. The ordinary Irish man on the street was not that bothered about the wider political situation for much of that time except for specific incidents of gross British government mismanagement that brought the union into focus.

seamus

Ending it with Britain, I wouldn't be too concerned. By necessity we would still require a deep level of free travel between the two islands, but at the same time the lack of the CTA would give us more freedom to participate in other free movement schemes like Schengen.

We can't end common travel with the UK though. We can't have a border in Ireland.

On a point of personal principle, we should be moving towards a point in several generation where we have a world without borders anyway, so ending the CTA is not something I'd be fighting for or that would grab my vote.

Mav11

No. Why would we support anything that would impose restrictions on ourselves?

mick087

No.

Ending the common travel area IMO would be totally unthinkable-unimaginable for over 80% of Irish people.

Snickers Man

I think Britain is far more likely to end the CTA with us than vice versa.

CTA worked fine when neither Britain nor Ireland were in EEC/EC/EU

It worked fine when both were in EEC/EC/EU

When one is in and one out, as pertains today, there will be "issues" before too long.

How do you know that somebody crossing the border or getting off the boat in Holyhead is an Irish citizen (and therefore entitled to free movement) or a citizen of another EU country and therefore NOT entitled to free movement?

You don't.

Only a matter of time before it goes to buttress Brexit, IMHO.

Why would someone travel to Ireland to enter the UK, when they could just get the ferry to Dover?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131570#Comment_118131570

Do you believe we would have the common travel area with Britain if Northern Ireland didn't exist? From the impressions I get here, I don't think we would. The comments here would have you believe the two countries are best friends.

cj maxx

God No.

Kermit.de.frog

If Ireland remains part of the EU the CTA will more than likely be ended at some point anyway.

The bigger point is we don't need it and haven't for decades.

Also the worry of "being treated as a foreigner" as an argument not to enhance borders with our neighbor is patently ridiculous.

We chose to be foreigners with independence.

Sam Russell

Just look at the De Souza case - the laws that were required to support the GFA were not enacted or amended in 20 years, and it took De Souza to take a case to the UK Supreme Court before the HO conceded defeat in the case. I am not sure whether the required changes to the various laws have since been enacted.

The current HS is not fit for the job, so I do not see us changing the CTA, but I do see the current HS doing so at some time to distract attention from whatever is the then current crisis.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139382#Comment_118139382

Most of us are, unlike your posts, which come across like we are sworn enemies.

we have moved on.

whomitconcerns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216788/would-you-support-ireland-ending-the-common-travel-area-with-britain

Absolute nonsense….. and to be clear no. I can vote, drive, work, scratch my arse if I do wish, over here with no hassles or rules. Why make things more complicated?

the Italians killed Jesus…. Should we boycott Italy also?

I quite like your average Brit, so no, I don't have any hangups. It would also damage a lot of Irish people living over in Britain... and will nobody think of poor Jeremy Irons?!

I'd be against a CTA with North Korea if that's any help.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130112#Comment_118130112

Let me guess something to do with magical non existent technology?

Sam Russell

There is more to the CTA that travel and passports.

Under UK law, Irish Citizens are not Aliens, and are treated the same as UK Citizens in most things.

If the CTA ended, it would be unravelled bit by bit and not as a sudden overall change. Various 'privileges' would be withdrawn as and when it appeared to be worth withdrawing.

We could find, if there was a united Ireland, that joining Schengen might be important, and UK passport holders might have a problem which might require an accommodation - or not.

Otherwise, we have no likely need to end the CTA.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118141998#Comment_118141998

Forget Schengen. The CTA is needed so that Irish citizens have the same rights in the UK as British citizens and vice versa. Without that the GFA simply falls apart.

Brussels Sprout

Don't think I've ever seen a thread where there has been unanimous disagreement with the OP. That just goes to show how terrible and poorly thought out an idea it was.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142052#Comment_118142052

Unless that was the intention. Or alternatively the OP did not understand the CTA and what it means.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139382#Comment_118139382

So what? It does exist, and therefore any proposal that puts a hard border on this island is a bad one. The two countries have shared responsibilities and shared interests, and the nature of those shared responsibilities and interests is what makes the CTA both useful and necessary.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118139772#Comment_118139772

What is this "we don't need it" nonsense of which you speak?

and that other thing? Enhance? Borders? With our nearest neighbour?

Seriously? Have you not been following the news?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142187#Comment_118142187

It's hard to say. From a purely technical point of view, it's fair enough to ask why use the CTA as opposed to any other mechanism that would achieve the same ends. But these questions are never purely technical, as both the peace process and Brexit have shown.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142358#Comment_118142358

It's time some Irish people ditched the colonial mindset and stopped tugging the forelock.

And, no, we don't need it. It's a hangover the country never even asked for.

We have a peculiar lack of self confidence compared to other small countries.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142450#Comment_118142450

So you're advocating for a hard border on the island of Ireland then? That is the actual consequence of removing the CTA.

If you say that we do not need it but also that we shouldn't have a hard border then you're no better than the Brexiteers who only destroy things without any thought to the consequences.

Breezer

In an ideal world, and for ideological reasons, it would be nice to be able to join Schengen instead. I don’t feel in any way British, whereas I do feel European, and would support the closer integration being part of Schengen would bring.

In reality, no. It would create a hard border on the island of Ireland. It would make things a lot more difficult for those Irish people who have chosen to live and work in the UK. And, since we live on an island, being part of Schengen wouldn’t really bring any major tangible benefits. Shorter airport queues, sometimes. That’s hardly worth sacrificing all the good the CTA brings, including blasting the GFA out of the water.

The only way it would work would be in a United Ireland, and even then it would take generations, if it ever worked at all. One would have to assume that people in NI would retain the right to British citizenship post unification, and where would that leave them if the CTA were scrapped?

What I would like, would be for Ireland and the UK to both join Schengen, but whatever slim chance there was of that in years gone by, it’s simply not going to happen now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142450#Comment_118142450

So you have been asleep since 2016, or maybe 1998. Fair enough so, I didn't realise.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142724#Comment_118142724

He's not. He just hasn't realised.

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142052#Comment_118142052

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130108#Comment_118130108

Just for the sake of balance so....

I wholeheartedly endorse the ridiculous and badly thought out proposition outlined by the OP. I further propose the blocking of BBC, ITV and Channel 4. Because they’re British, like. Also, Walkers crisps. They can fcuk off too.

ATR72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144156#Comment_118144156

I've never met anyone in Ireland who identifies as anything other than Irish. The CTA will still be in place even if there was a united Ireland. Unionists won't suddenly dissapear and there are hundreds of thousands of Irish people living and working in the UK. The number has remained the same as pre-Brexit years.

323

Absolutely Not.

Been lots of ups and downs, not argument there. But we still have a lot more in common with them than any any other European country.

Mayfielder

Nope.

If it ain't broke why fix it ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118156878#Comment_118156878

Personally I very much identify as Irish and European, but my sense of being European is not associated with the EU, more with European civilization. There was a time when I was an ardent EU federalist but my feelings toward the EU have cooled very significantly over the years, though I do not favor leaving it and I do not hope for its dissolution. I would align more so with the Polish-Hungarian view of things and dislike the way in which the western EU states are going, culturally and socially.

I also have a great affinity with Britain based on our shared history. I don't feel that Britain is a foreign country. In another universe I could quite easily see myself as happily Irish and British in a UK that worked a bit better for all the four nations and never broke up. If there was an option today for Irish people to claim UK citizenship as a birthright, I'd take it for cultural reasons. (I'm from a Gaelic, Catholic, southern family by the way).