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Would you support Ireland ending the common travel area with Britain?

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24

Comments

  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Most of us are, unlike your posts, which come across like we are sworn enemies.

    we have moved on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Absolute nonsense….. and to be clear no. I can vote, drive, work, scratch my arse if I do wish, over here with no hassles or rules. Why make things more complicated?

    the Italians killed Jesus…. Should we boycott Italy also?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I quite like your average Brit, so no, I don't have any hangups. It would also damage a lot of Irish people living over in Britain... and will nobody think of poor Jeremy Irons?!

    I'd be against a CTA with North Korea if that's any help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,925 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Let me guess something to do with magical non existent technology?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,606 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There is more to the CTA that travel and passports.

    Under UK law, Irish Citizens are not Aliens, and are treated the same as UK Citizens in most things.

    If the CTA ended, it would be unravelled bit by bit and not as a sudden overall change. Various 'privileges' would be withdrawn as and when it appeared to be worth withdrawing.

    We could find, if there was a united Ireland, that joining Schengen might be important, and UK passport holders might have a problem which might require an accommodation - or not.

    Otherwise, we have no likely need to end the CTA.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Forget Schengen. The CTA is needed so that Irish citizens have the same rights in the UK as British citizens and vice versa. Without that the GFA simply falls apart.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Don't think I've ever seen a thread where there has been unanimous disagreement with the OP. That just goes to show how terrible and poorly thought out an idea it was.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,606 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Unless that was the intention. Or alternatively the OP did not understand the CTA and what it means.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So what? It does exist, and therefore any proposal that puts a hard border on this island is a bad one. The two countries have shared responsibilities and shared interests, and the nature of those shared responsibilities and interests is what makes the CTA both useful and necessary.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What is this "we don't need it" nonsense of which you speak?

    and that other thing? Enhance? Borders? With our nearest neighbour?

    Seriously? Have you not been following the news?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's hard to say. From a purely technical point of view, it's fair enough to ask why use the CTA as opposed to any other mechanism that would achieve the same ends. But these questions are never purely technical, as both the peace process and Brexit have shown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,621 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    It's time some Irish people ditched the colonial mindset and stopped tugging the forelock.

    And, no, we don't need it. It's a hangover the country never even asked for.

    We have a peculiar lack of self confidence compared to other small countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    So you're advocating for a hard border on the island of Ireland then? That is the actual consequence of removing the CTA.

    If you say that we do not need it but also that we shouldn't have a hard border then you're no better than the Brexiteers who only destroy things without any thought to the consequences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    In an ideal world, and for ideological reasons, it would be nice to be able to join Schengen instead. I don’t feel in any way British, whereas I do feel European, and would support the closer integration being part of Schengen would bring.

    In reality, no. It would create a hard border on the island of Ireland. It would make things a lot more difficult for those Irish people who have chosen to live and work in the UK. And, since we live on an island, being part of Schengen wouldn’t really bring any major tangible benefits. Shorter airport queues, sometimes. That’s hardly worth sacrificing all the good the CTA brings, including blasting the GFA out of the water.

    The only way it would work would be in a United Ireland, and even then it would take generations, if it ever worked at all. One would have to assume that people in NI would retain the right to British citizenship post unification, and where would that leave them if the CTA were scrapped?

    What I would like, would be for Ireland and the UK to both join Schengen, but whatever slim chance there was of that in years gone by, it’s simply not going to happen now.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So you have been asleep since 2016, or maybe 1998. Fair enough so, I didn't realise.


    He's not. He just hasn't realised.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,285 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Just for the sake of balance so....

    I wholeheartedly endorse the ridiculous and badly thought out proposition outlined by the OP. I further propose the blocking of BBC, ITV and Channel 4. Because they’re British, like. Also, Walkers crisps. They can fcuk off too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭ATR72


    I've never met anyone in Ireland who identifies as anything other than Irish. The CTA will still be in place even if there was a united Ireland. Unionists won't suddenly dissapear and there are hundreds of thousands of Irish people living and working in the UK. The number has remained the same as pre-Brexit years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭323


    Absolutely Not.

    Been lots of ups and downs, not argument there. But we still have a lot more in common with them than any any other European country.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • Registered Users Posts: 47 Mayfielder


    Nope.

    If it ain't broke why fix it ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Personally I very much identify as Irish and European, but my sense of being European is not associated with the EU, more with European civilization. There was a time when I was an ardent EU federalist but my feelings toward the EU have cooled very significantly over the years, though I do not favor leaving it and I do not hope for its dissolution. I would align more so with the Polish-Hungarian view of things and dislike the way in which the western EU states are going, culturally and socially.

    I also have a great affinity with Britain based on our shared history. I don't feel that Britain is a foreign country. In another universe I could quite easily see myself as happily Irish and British in a UK that worked a bit better for all the four nations and never broke up. If there was an option today for Irish people to claim UK citizenship as a birthright, I'd take it for cultural reasons. (I'm from a Gaelic, Catholic, southern family by the way).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,425 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    I personally hate the idea of British people being allowed to live and work in Ireland following Brexit


    Last I checked there was considerably more Irish living and working in the UK than vice versa - so where you gonna home all these Irish that have to be deported back to Ireland, where are all the jobs gonna come from or will it just be more people on the dole


    The Irish/UK thing is more than just the CTA - there is lots of familiar bonds between the countries beyond a piece of paper, more so than there is with the rest of Europe


    OP has no idea what they are talking about



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,423 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    No

    The OP is a silly idea



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,491 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    I would be in favour of removing the CTA with the UK in favour of joining schenegn and be further integrated with our fellow EU members rather than the pariah state the UK is becoming. There is little advantage to maintaining it at the expense of better relations elsewhere.

    Unfortunitly the mess up north means it probably won't ever happen and we'll be stuck with the current arrangement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Out of curiosity have you lived in a British country? I lived in England for a time and I was quite surprised at the difference. Obviously there are a lof of things that we share (e.g. climate, language, landscape) but there are a lot differences too. Growing up in Ireland we receive all of their media so it feels like we're in tune with them culturally but when I was over there I just really noticed that they really are a different people. Also I was shocked at the ignorance I encountered about Ireland from them. I had previously lived in New Zealand and there didn't seem to be much of a difference in the average knowledge about Ireland between the people of those two countries despite one being next door and the other being on the other side of the world.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have never lived continuously in the UK, no. That said, I have spent several weeks at a time in various smaller English cities through the years and worked with lots of English, Scottish and Welsh folk over the past 20 years both inside Ireland and abroad.

    I don't believe we're 'the same'. I would personally much prefer the English to the Scots from an affability perspective, if we're speaking in generalizations. That said, I've also noticed a difference between regions within Ireland too -- Donegal folk are a fair bit different from Tipperary folk. Your average person from north Cork is different to Irish-identifying people in Co. Down. And don't get me started on Dublin, which doesn't feel anything like the Ireland I grew up in. I might be wrong but the fact that so many Irish people live in the UK, move to the UK, and find joy and entertainment and interest in so much of what goes on in the UK, suggests to me that the ties that bind us are pretty strong.

    I am aware that many people in Britain don't know much or anything about Ireland, but I put that down to (a) it being a totally separate and much bigger country now (the population of Ireland and England were much closer in size at one time) and (b) an awful lot of people don't take much of an interest in anything anyway. It's the same here. I bet if you selected a random group of 50 Irish people, fewer than half could name more than three or four English counties. But the other half could probably name a heap.

    On the whole, I think the shared history, language, landscape, and climate are very compelling.

    I wouldn't for one moment favor Ireland joining the UK today though. That would be crazy.

    Out of curiosity, what do you think are the biggest differences?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I was working in a professional environment in a regional town so the people I would have been interacting with were educated middle-class types. Obviously that's only one strata of society but I would have worked in similar companies in Ireland so I could make a direct comparison with similar people here. I found that the English tended to have great manners but that came at the expense of a kind of aloofness. I guess it's what people call "reserve". It's kind of like they're holding back their real feelings and therefore have a much narrower emotional range. Personally I found that difficult to warm to. I found myself hanging out with a guy from Zimbabwe as I felt like I had more in common with him than our English colleagues.

    I started to notice as well that the white English people look slightly different to white Irish people here. For example there are a lot more blonde people there and also you see a lot more people with sallow skin (kind of like Gary Lineker). I believe that, although there has been plenty of cross-breeding over the centuries, we have our roots in different tribes of people and this is still evident in the genetics even today.

    I lived in a garrison town with an army base and a recruitment office for the British Army on the main street. Coming from a place where the military is practically a non-entity to a place where it's very overt was a little jarring. The town itself was quite grim. Even though it was was surrounded by the countryside the houses were tiny. I found it impossible to find a house-share with a garden because most houses didn't have any. I guess that's a byproduct of the higher population density there.

    There seemed to be lot more income inequality over there. Like I remember seeing an advert for a cleaning job paying £6 an hour (this was in 2010). They don't pay the high rate of tax until much higher in the UK so you don't get that same societal wealth transfer that you get here. People can argue about whether that is fair or not but one thing it does is reduce dire poverty. I lived in a few houses with cheap rent and there seemed to be dire poverty in those areas - similar to that TV show Benefits street. Now obviously we have poor areas here too but I went to school in one of them and this was on a different level. As an aside I checked the area after the Brexit vote and it voted for Brexit with over 60% of the vote.

    Beyond that then there all the little things that make it obvious that you're in a foreign country:

    • Different coloured post-boxes, signs and road-markings (those squiggly lines for example)
    • Going into a pub and not recognising the majority of the beers and ales
    • Free healthcare (this was a welcome surprise when I had a GP visit)
    • Being able to easily get around by train (also a good thing)
    • Less fields in between stations on the train since it's far more developed


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming



    Bear in mint that the CTA is not just a "travel" agreement (since it is intrincally linked from a UK perspective to the domestic "Ireland act" of 1949). Its [CTA] revocation would have profound implications for any Irish person living in either N.Ireland or Britain beyond simply being able to travel between jurisdictions since its revocation would result in said act being reviewed/repealed, and there are already a few Tory headbangers who want it repealed. We are - legally - not viewed as foreigners as soon as we rock up on British soil. That means we can vote in local & national elections and referenda, we can seek medical help, accommodation, etc. etc. without having to engage with the perverse, deeply incompetent and Machiavellian entity that is the Home Office and its "Hostile environment" policy, all whilst having to pay them large sums of money for the "privilege" of being treated as less than sh1t.

    In revoking the CTA, every Irish person living in Britain or N.Ireland has their rights removed. That statement is ended with a full-stop because that is how total, and all-encompassing the ramifications will be. We are not just talking about travel.

    We lose far more from revocation of the CTA than we gain from joining Schengen.

    Post edited by Lemming on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,792 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    No, with the Troubles over we should be making closer ties to Britain. Especially with the British left, Corbyn, Livingstone, Skinner, Galloway etc... people like that spoke out against the anti-Irish hysteria in England of the 70's & 80's as did Tony Benn (RIP).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    well but here is the thing, once there is a unified ireland , i would assume that unionists will still be allowed to travel freely to uk and live there as a sweetener but for the rest of the people it cannot really be that ireland should have more rights than other europeans. of course irish and uk people that have lived in the other country will still be allowed to do so aftewards, just like british people can still live in the country they had eu residency before brexit. But after unification it will be hard to sell to europeans why the irish should have more freedoms than the rest of europe.

    with the current situation i think most people in europe are rather supportive of ireland, but i guess after an unification irealnd should not rely on this support longer than it needs to be.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭garbanzo


    Interesting discussion and I’m firmly in the “heart says Schengen but the head says retain the CTA” sine of the argument.

    Not wishing to take this off topic but can anyone explain what is actually in the CTA for the British. Why did they agree to it in the first place? I’ve never really had a satisfactory answer to it.

    For the record I benefitted from the CTA in the late 80s / early ‘90s working in London when there was precious little here. Been over and back many, many times but in recent years England has become a very strange sort of place.

    g



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