Why do people feel they are entitled to the money of others?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099695#Comment_118099695

Wealth taxes have been tried, but the no. of countries with a wealth tax has been falling.

Wealth taxes don't tend to raise as much as expected.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099887#Comment_118099887

Yeah, I'm not sure those wealth taxes were applied to billionaires though, as they are not going to reside in countries with wealth taxes if they have a choice. The folks caught by wealth taxes are the same people who pay all the rest of the tax.

Side note: won't it be fun when we crack the secret of eternal life? Guess who will be the people who will be able to afford it? All hail the god emperors...

I see sheep

Consumerism is killing the world, quite rapidly.

A real hero Bezos yeah.

Dav010

I thought it was the cows.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099671#Comment_118099671

This is akin to saying that Michael O'Leary "gave us" cheap flights.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099078#Comment_118099078

None of those people built their wealth up from nothing. Also, Amazon are indeed a virtual monopoly.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099254#Comment_118099254

"I don't think anyone is advocating seizing Bezos's or Musk's wealth "

Incorrect on all counts.

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099949#Comment_118099949

It's changing the world, and in some ways not positively.

But it's also driving innovation too.

Where is the motivation to create smart tech, if normal everyday people cannot / or don't want to own it or use it?

Most people don't really need all the clever tech in their lives. But the fact that you can convince them that they do need it, is what drives competition and standards higher.

People like Bezos or Musk are useful people to have around, but only if they continue to be motivated by innovation that is beneficial to the masses. Some of it is a bit pointless, but the bigger the market the more scope for truly life changing developments.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100227#Comment_118100227

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100234#Comment_118100234

Ryanair/Michael O’Leary are indeed credited with giving us cheap air travel. From a 2001 interview:

"The other airlines are asking how they can put up fares. We are asking how we could get rid of them."

Musk left university and started Zip2 from scratch, Jobs started Apple in his garage with Steve Wozniak, Bezos sold second hand books from his spare room, both himself and his wife wrapped them for posting, the Collisons started Shuppa from their home in Limerick. So I think I am on safe ground when I say they all started from scratch and ended up billionaires through hard work/their skill.

Lets add in Bill Gates, he started Microsoft from nothing with Paul Allen, Jack Ma started Alibaba from scratch and Warren Buffett started investing in his teens and by 1970 opened Berkshire Hathaway. The richest person in Africa, Aliko Dangote started his business at 21 with a $3k loan from his uncle.

And as you mention him, Michael O’Leary was a young accountant for SKC advising Tony Ryan of GPA, before he joined Ryanair. Ryan initially was sceptical when O’Leary wanted to restructure the company in 1990 but O’Leary made him see what Ryanair could become, hence the era of cheap air travel was born and O’Leary has become very rich as a result of hard work and business acumen.

magicbastarder

can we dispense with the 'started from nothing' narrative with a lot of these guys? buffett's dad was a multi-term congressman. gates was born to a rich family and had access to computers that only a miniscule fraction of american teenagers would have had (IIRC malcom gladwell guesstimated that maybe 50 people his age would have had the opportunities he did). musk's family were also wealthy - his dad was part owner of an emerald mine IIRC.

the best way to be rich as an adult is to be born rich, especially in america which has very low social mobility.

also, an interesting point to be considered when people think o'leary and o'leary alone is responsible for the era of cheap air travel:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/travel/how-low-fares-took-off-a-revolution-in-the-skies-1.3161374

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100237#Comment_118100237

Fair point: should have read "I don't think any *reasonable* person...". Didn't see anyone on the thread advocating it, but I could be wrong...

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100525#Comment_118100525

A little more research would show you Buffets career, Musks father didn’t play a part in PayPal, unless you count educating him, and lots of kids have access to computers, that does not mean they end up as Bill Gates.

What a pile of rubbish you posted, many people have the same opportunities, few are as successful.

Housefree

Bezos wealth is based on the invention of the Internet, a tax payer funded invention, he's riding on the backs of tax payers without paying his fair share. Not mention the tax payer funded roads for distribution, his tax payer educated workforce, tax payer funded protection from law enforcement that keeps the place from being robbed etc etc etc. These big corporations use their money to change the rules to suit them, they don't play fair, they fix the game.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100554#Comment_118100554

it's just a coincidence that multiple people you mentioned came from wealthy backgrounds so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100554#Comment_118100554

Musk was still born into an incredibly affluent background. Same with Gates. Basically when Gates first got access to computers as a teenager, he had greater access than the average college student at time. So while no doubt he was extraordinarily gifted, he had major advantages based on circumstance and background that others did not. The rags to riches stuff rarely applies to the average multi billionaire.

The other thing to note is that the wealth gap has greatly increased in the last few decades. I'd choose an equitable society any day over races to be the first trillionaire.

corks finest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095516#Comment_118095516

Same

noodler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096702#Comment_118096702

No one is comparing you to Jeff Bezos

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100723#Comment_118100723

and it's not just that gates had such extraordinary access at the age he was - the 'lots of kids have access to computers' comment in the post you quoted shows an ignorance of just how much access gates had, but also the *time* at which he had that access; which was key. he was in the door at the very beginning of the revolution in home computing with a clear advantage over pretty much everyone else who might have wanted to jump into that business.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100723#Comment_118100723

The other thing to note is that the wealth gap has greatly increased in the last few decades.

In the US the gap has risen to levels not seen since their gilded age of the late 19th century where the gap was more obvious and in many ways obscene. The main difference back then is the extremely wealthy flaunted their wealth more publicly. These days for vearious reasons they don't to nearly the same degree so your Bezos types are pictured in chinos and tee shirts. 1% of the US population takes about a quarter of all wealth generated in the US economy in a year. In the most extreme example of New York the same 1% earn nearly fifty times more than the other 99%(the US average is twenty five times). While there is certainly a wealth gap in European nations thankfully we never really bought into an idea like the shell game that is the American Dream, where even the poor can regard themselves as "temporariliy embarrassed millionaires" and worship those who exploit them, so European nations tend to have a narrower gap and the societies are more equitable overall.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100850#Comment_118100850

Are you for real?

The fact that he had access to computers or Musk’s dad was rich does not mean he was destined to succeed anymore that having a football/rich dad when young meant you were going to be Messi.

Many billionaires built their businesses from scratch, does it matter that Gates or Jobs had access to computers, Buffets dad was a politician, or Musks dad part owned a mine? Of course not, if it only depended on nurture, the world would have millions more billionaires.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100924#Comment_118100924

You are not good at constucting arguments, based on these posts. This is life advice.

seamus

Wealth is 99.9% upbringing, 0.1% luck.

If it was all down to talent, the world would have millions more billionaires.

The fundamental point here is that no individual is worth billions. Bezos or Musk do not provide the same amount of value to the economy as a million people. A CEO on 100k running Amazon would be just as good at the job as Bezos is, if not better. People are blinded by this notion that it's possible to become uber-wealthy through hard work alone, when we know for a fact that it's not.

The value created by a company like Amazon, is created by the people who work there, not the people who own it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100971#Comment_118100971

That's not even the ghost of an attempt at a rebuttal; it's playing the man and not the ball - a logical fallacy. But I'm sure you knew that...

His point stands.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100971#Comment_118100971

This is an example of more begrudgery, his daddy was rich, or he had a computer, the facts are that all those mentioned built up their businesses/wealth through talent and hard work, so deserve their rewards.

Life advice, don’t be jealous of what others have, including their wealth.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100994#Comment_118100994

The point is arrant nonsense. "Billionaires' success owes nothing to background or society". I guess it makes sense from a white supremacist point of view though, as there seems to be something of a shortage of black African billionaires.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101012#Comment_118101012

Jesus wept, I’m not following you down the white supremacist rabbit hole, it’s plumbing new depths.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101112#Comment_118101112

A good summation of your 'argument'.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118100850#Comment_118100850

Exactly. Very FEW kids had "access to computers" when Billy was a little boy.

SuperBowserWorld

Bezos has a brilliant business mind.

But he was also in the right place at the right time: internet, free open source software, Linux, ..., WiFi , broadband , mobile , incredible tax breaks, unregulated destruction of the environment , hyper consumerism.

There is a huge debt that society and the planet has taken on for this to happen.

https://youtu.be/9GorqroigqM

And yeah, I've been sucked into all of this too. It's a drug. Like alcohol.

I think if Amazon put the true cost of buying something on their website then people could see how much destruction the item causes. That would be a start.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101165#Comment_118101165

If you believe certain folks here, you could have dropped Gates into an illiterate and impoverished family in some third world country and his superior billionaire DNA would still have seen him become the richest man in the world. We are all waiting to hear exactly how this would happen though - the proponents of this view seem to be a bit light on the detail.