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Why do people feel they are entitled to the money of others?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    I take my hat off to anyone who starts with nothing and builds up a successful business

    the massive hours the mind and body damaging stress levels at times how relationships and family suffer due to them not being there

    the tax paying carry on of the monstrous size companies does annoy me though



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Bezos started from nothing, selling some books. What he has built is impressive. I love the fact that if I want to do something on a Saturday morning, realise I am missing a part, and more often than not I can order it on Amazon and it will be delivered that afternoon. Or when something goes wrong, I can log on and quickly raise an issue, and within 5-10 minutes I have someone from support calling me. No nonsense with waiting for hours on hold. And then they will always ship out the replacement there and then without waiting for me to return the broken item, or if there is no replacement refund me the money. I never once had to argue with anyone about it, they just do it. And they also send a courier to pick up the broken item. No other service I've used comes remotely close to that. But yes, he should treat his employees a lot better, especially those in the warehouses. He sees them as expendable and probably within a few years, his warehouses will be more automated, and he knows that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭MarkEadie


    Why can't he put his money towards not charging people who have cancelled amazon prime?



  • Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭travist




  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭shoxter


    It's not as simple as giving everyone 50k,supply and demand would drive up the cost of everything and the purchasing power of your 50k would level out to what you had before.Not to mention you will have people who will save the 50k and it will just be on a balance sheet or people who will blow the money on something trivial/unnecessary. Personally I think if someone's earned their money then it's theirs and it's not up to them to look after people who lack motivation or work ethic



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,448 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You're not forced at all. You're welcome to go find a place that suits you better or buy your own island and make up your own rules if you like. You can ask Jeff to deliver food once a week if you like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,448 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    At what cost though? What is the cost to the employees who are squeezed to provide this level of service, not getting the basic dignity of decent toilet breaks? What is the cost to the environment of having multiple van deliveries coming to your door for small items?

    There's a cost behind each of your purchase decisions, even if you're not paying it directly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,089 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    As someone else alluded to above, his fortune is built on systems that are built off the backs of current and previous generations. There will be lads out in the pissing rain tomorrow morning fixing potholes on roads that delivery vans are using to deliver those Amazon goods. He should contribute to those societal systems. It doesn't mean sell his shares and give cash to individuals but he could be properly taxed and that revenue put into, say, public healthcare or infrastructure projects.


    It is also worth noting that the same societal systems guarantee his rights and business freedoms and allowed him to accumulate that wealth. He did come up with a great idea and he made it work, but nobody can try to say that 200bn is the appropriate level of remuneration for whatever work he did



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....so maybe musk shouldnt have been given that 400 mil of taxpayers money to start up!!!!!!!!!!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    he was so smart, he has helped to create a giant monopoly, who has been crushing competitors out of markets, and also treats his workers like sh!te!

    when your options of income are amazon or the dole, you ll actually find, theres not many actual options there! those companies hardly 'lobby' governments to maintain these state protections, i.e. low rates of tax etc etc?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    I'm most definitely not 'far left'. It's a classic fallacy to dismiss an argument based on who is making it (or worse, who you assume is making it).

    There are two glaring points here:

    1. Money is power, and handing unchecked power to people does not usually end well.
    2. They can only make money based on the society that supports them to do so. They need to contribute to that society in fair measure. Amazon or Apple wouild not have gotten very far without patent law, postal services, roads, literate workers/customers etc. etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...and the fact, most of their employees, past and present, have also been largely publicly educated, using public money supplies



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    It is possible to admire Bezos's business acumen and still think he should pay more taxes. He is a member of society and relies on that society for his business and should therefore contribute to it, and no paying **** wages doesn't count.

    I'm always amused when people decry scroungers living off social welfare but then praise billionaires who pay minimal tax and take advantage of government subsidies.

    Wealth shaming? Gimme a fúcking break



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...and as other have said, these folks heavily rely on public/state entities to merely exist, self made, me hole!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭dublin49


    Even if you or someone else started with nothing and accrued significant wealth totally through your own efforts this scenario is very much the exception to the rule, if you are born in an Indian slum chances are you you will die poor and the same is true if you are born into wealth and privilege chances are you will die in healthy financial state, totally the luck of the draw and society does little to even up the odds.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ..it ultimately comes down to your choice of parents, and your chosen date of birth, so chose wisely!



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    There's nothing that "smart" about Jeff. He just took up an idea that was already floating about. Amazon started off as an internet site that you could buy books from. It certainly wasn't the first to do that. There was nothing "smart" about it.

    What there was, however, an instantly recognisable name. But there was nothing "smart" about that either. Just like Google became the search engine of choice, based solely on its easily remembered named, Amazon became the place to buy your books and later CDs from.

    Bezo's got lucky with Amazon and it was the consumers bovine adherence to easily remembered monikers that did more for Amazon getting big than anything else.

    There's no 4D chess going on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    Google didn't become the leading search engine based on its name. It revolutionised how searching the web worked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...and clobbered competitors out of the market



  • Registered Users Posts: 54,646 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Their wealth is obscenely vulgar, but it’s theoretical really. It’s not hard currency.

    What I personally find offensive and obscene is say the likes a David Beckam, a extremely wealthy individual, and still no hang ups about taking a vulgar sum of money to be an ambassador for the Qatar WC.

    and these people trying to pass off as being normal everyday folks.

    whatever happened to selflessness?

    I haven’t heard of say Bezos or Musk at this type a crap.

    money has no real effect at all when you get to the success/wealth levels of these centibillionaires



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    When Google started it was no better than any other search engine. It became popular because of its name. That it later became one of the best search engines is a different matter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    in the modern world, majority of wealth is stored in the value of assets, i.e. it doesnt necessarily need to be in hard cash to be real wealth, it actually makes sense to diversify, as currencies are also prone to devaluing



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭generic_throwaway


    That is completely incorrect I'm afraid. That's interesting, I would have assumed you were of an age to have used the precursors to Google, like Yahoo and Alta Vista. Either you didn't use them, or you don't recall how bad they were.

    Google revolutionised how searching worked with the Page Rank algorithm, and returned better, more relevant and faster results than its competitors. It completely crushed them in use, which is why everyone who tried Google stuck with it.

    'Google' is no more memorable than 'Yahoo' or 'Alta Vista' or the many other search engines that existed back then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I remember when Google started. I remember the first iteration of it. The average joe hadn't a clue between that, Yahoo, or Ask Jeeves. Google was a funny name that people remembered, though, and it quickly became popular with "Google it" becoming a phrase.

    I can't go into its optimisation or how it returned results, cos I don't know. But neither did the majority of the people who were using it.

    In any case, this is getting off the track. Amazon, when it began, was just a number of book selling sites or are you going to tell me that they were revolutionary too? 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i would argue amazon did indeed revolutionize book trading markets, a true disrupter, which benefitted and undermined everyone, all at the same time



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Wouldn't that be internet trading in general though? The impact from the web on brick and mortar shops wouldn't be limited to just Amazon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,817 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    very true, the internet itself has been a major disrupter, its amazing bricks and mortar are still here, and thank god to, i really like the browse only bricks and mortar model, i think it would be a winner, if we do embrace it



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,942 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Myself too. There's nothing like actually going to a shop and browsing for something and maybe picking up a surprise as well. Shopping online just isn't the same.

    On the subject of Amazon, though, I will say this...their returns policy is fantastic. Now, I've only ever had to return one thing, a graphics card, but they refunded me no questions asked and the reason why I returned it was because I was simply unhappy with it, which is the vaguest of terms. You'd be hard pressed to get a refund from most (if any) real, walk in, shops with that kind of complaint.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,461 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    kinda funny that someone who did work in at least one minimum wage job, has shown such little concern over the welfare of his own 'bottom of the chain' workers. i might suspect it speaks of a total lack of empathy, but i'm not a psychologist.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,054 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I admire Bazos, Musk, Jobs, the Collisons, in fact I admire any person who built their wealth up from nothing, no matter what sector it is in, as long as it’s legal of course. Fair does to them, I’m sure it wasn’t easy, they obviously identified a need in the market and took advantage of it.

    In relation to posters saying Amazon is a monopoly crushing the market unfairly, bullshit. I love Amazon, no matter what I want to buy I just look it up on Amazon and get the best price. It is a market place for businesses big and small that they would not otherwise have. No doubt many people have benefitted, and become rich themselves, because they are able to sell on Amazon. Musk has catapulted electrical cars into the market, no need to say anything about Apple, and the Collisons gave us Stripe, a safe and quick way to pay online.

    Don’t begrudge others success, if you could make a lot of money, you probably would.



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