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Prop gun accident kills cinematographer and injures director



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,780 CMod ✭✭✭✭ johnny_ultimate

    Here’s the link to the LA Times story:

    “The cinematographer who was accidentally killed, Halyna Hutchins, had been advocating for safer conditions for her team, said one crew member who was on the set.”

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,707 ✭✭✭ Dakota Dan

  • Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭ SupplyandDemandZone

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,707 ✭✭✭ Dakota Dan

    Nothing new in fairness, wouldn’t be the first time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭ Killinator

    Lots of 'prop' guns operate the same as 'real' guns and plenty are real guns mislabeled as 'prop' guns simply because they fire blanks.

    Blank rounds sound real, make the gun act real and tend to draw a more realistic response from people/actors on set however when not used right are still perfectly able to cause fatal injuries, and that's with them functioning perfectly.

    A lot of people dont realise that there is potentially fatal debris expelled from the muzzle when a blank is fired. It's not an issue from distance but up close is the problem and it's sounds like this may have been the case here.

    Not sure how this could have happened as everyone should have been trained on the use of these guns and protocols in place for their use. Ive used blanks for shows and wouldn't dream of pointing them at someone (you use perspective to trick people) and that's loaded or unloaded.

    The most important rule with guns is treat them as if they are loaded AT ALL TIMES!

    A truly horrible incident and feel bad for Baldwin who'll have to carry this for the rest of his days even if he was not to blame, and of course everyone else involved in this tragic incident.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 77,444 ✭✭✭✭ JP Liz V1

    RIP the poor lady

    Will this movie Rust continue?

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,345 ✭✭✭✭ Tom Mann Centuria

    Very sad, I'm sure a lawsuit will follow.

    Post edited by Tom Mann Centuria on

  • Registered Users Posts: 284 ✭✭ pjcb

    Where was the bullet-resistent shield?

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,572 ✭✭✭ Mr Crispy

    Halyna spent time here last year, quarantining in Dublin, then filming in Birr. She loved it, by all accounts. What a horrible thing to happen.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,987 ✭✭✭✭ silverharp

    the dumbest think you will read today

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 11,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭ miamee

    That is unbelievable and so unsafe. It reads like members of the crew had access to the guns being used on set, could take them whenever they wanted, use real ammo and return them to set without anyone doing a safety check.

    I honestly would have thought that on a movie set they would be locked down and only taken out when needed, and even then by a trained and responsible person - not lying around accessible and available to everyone 😮

  • Registered Users Posts: 68,318 ✭✭✭✭ seamus

    I guess we labour under the impression that there are processes in place that everyone sticks to. But even that Will Smith video above, while proving Smith knows his stuff, also proves that in general, safety processes and knowledge is severely lacking. "Here's a table full of guns, pick your favourites". Nobody checking that anyone has a clue how to handle a gun, nobody handing out the weapons one-by-one, just a free-for-all, "Pick your weapon". Madness.

    It would be like a building site opening up in the morning and just having the keys to all the heavy machinery on a table and telling the lads to go ahead and pick one.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭ SimonTemplar

    Reading the various reports from the last few days, what I think almost certainly happened is that some of the crew used those guns with live ammo for plinking but they forgot to remove all the live ammo. Then the chief armorer and the asst. director didn't do their due diligence and check the gun didn't contain any live ammo. The asst. director called out 'cold gun' when giving it to Baldwin despite not having done these checks.

    Absolutely an avoidable death if the presence of firearms on set was treated with the level of danger it deserved.

    I'm actually surprised plinking with prop guns is a common occurrence on sets. I would have expected all prop guns to be locked away immediately after filming not passed around the crew as toys.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    Some might find this interesting. Video on the mechanics of prop guns and blanks for movies. From 2 years ago.

    I was watching an old war movie the other night. Guns Of Navarone, and some of the guns are not real guns but basically props that run gas flames, so they look like they are firing. So its been an issue forever.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf

    I wonder is there any need for 'real' or potentially real guns on movie sets at all. Surely they can make highly accurate replicas nowadays. Maybe if the actor feels they need a bit of training on what firing the real thing feels like, do that off in a firing range, but don't bring actual guns onto the set...

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭ Killinator

    There probably isnt a need in reality but hundreds of movies get made every year using blank firing guns with no issue.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH

    There's zero reason for any film to have actual loaded weapons on set. There would be a tiny amount of people in the audience that would be able to distinguish between a real firing gun and a blank firing prop. And if someone can and makes a big deal out of it, they'd really be in need of questioning their own priorities.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    I think the point is blank firing props are real guns in many cases. Since the blank has significant power itself. You'd need the strength of a real gun to contain it safely.

    The argument really is to move way from blank firing guns to expensive cgi and sound effects. When there's been very few accidents overall.

    If you want to capture a close up of firing into the camera you won't have crew near the camera. As that armourer in that video explained.

    Even with a blank replica. If someone deliberately replaced it with a real gun. You'd have to have procedures to catch that before it got the actors hand.

    Having safety protocols, and good practice. That's really where the issue is.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,521 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf

    But the thing is on American movie sets, if you have 'blank firing props' that are capable of firing real bullets you'll apparently have wasters in the crew who'll be putting real bullets in them and using them for target practice during downtime on the shoot. So I'm saying should have essentially toy guns incapable of firing real ammo that look exactly like the real thing for film and tv work. Maybe have some tiny watermark on them so cast and crew can check they're not a real gun.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,921 ✭✭✭ conorhal

    A lot of productions use prop guns with a gas cannister to generate muzzle flash these days, but that's really only practicable if the character is firing automatic weapons, typically machine-guns. It's not an option if you're making a period piece using old timey six shooters.

    Many productions since the advent of CGI employ digital muzzle flash added later in post production. But there are two problems with that, one it looks terribly fake because you don't get the interactive lighting caused by a practical muzzle flash on set and you are left with very little verisimilitude in a scene that involves actors walking around going 'pew-pew' at each other. Like it or not, an actor reacts viscerally to blanks in a way that they just wont if a director is just shouting 'bang-bang' from behind a camera as a queue to the actors. The John Wick movies employ digital muzzle flash a lot, which is one of the reasons the gunfights in those movies tend to feel so video-gamey.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,596 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Sad Professor

    It's still not really clear what happened here and there's a lot of confusion over what a live round means in this context and whether a real bullet was in the chamber. If it was a real bullet rather than a blank (which can also kill but is far more likely to be ruled an accident) then this could easily end with criminal charges being filed against someone.

    Mostly this seems to have been a case of negligence by the armourer, though if the various reports about the incompetency of this person are true then the producers will also be trouble.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,539 ✭✭✭ Flinty997

    I'm not sure I agree with any of that.

    Quite a few of these things are known. They are just waiting to be officially confirmed. There isn't just person in the loop on this.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH

    I don't think this was a blank. The projectile passed through Halyna Hutchin's chest and also injured Joel Souza in the clavicle. No blank is going to do that.

    There's been accounts of crew members shooting beer cans with live ammo between scenes.

    There's also a matter about unionised staff and non-unionised staff on the set of 'Rust'. It appears that the union staff were told to pack their bags because cheaper non-unionised staff were brought in. Whether that had any impact on the team of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed (the armourer) is unclear.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,661 ✭✭✭ Quantum Erasure

    well, thats something I didnt expect to hear. They're to resume filming on Rust,

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH

    A lot of potential money to be made on the back of the shooting, with the prospect of ghouls checking the film out because somebody died on set.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,260 ✭✭✭✭ CastorTroy

    Didn't harm The Crow. It is one of those "would it have done as well if it wasn't for Brandon's death"

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,327 ✭✭✭ Topgear on Dave

    Jayziz was not expecting that alright.

    All publicity is good publicity then.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 57,490 ✭✭✭✭ Agent Coulson

    Baldwin is now suing the crew of the movie for negligence.

    He wants his name cleared and say it has cost him jobs.

    Just days before the Santa Fe District Attorney is expected to announced her intentions in the fatal shooting of Rust cinematographer Halyna Hutchins by Alec Baldwin last year, the actor Friday has slammed crew members of the indie Western with a negligence lawsuit.

    Filed on a day when Los Angeles Superior Court is closed for the Veterans Day holiday, the photo- and email-heavy cross-complaint for negligence and indemnification names Rust armorer Hannah Gutierrez Reed, first assistant director David Halls, property master Sarah Zachry, and weapons and rounds supplier Seth Kenney and his company as defendants.

    “This tragedy happened because live bullets were delivered to the set and loaded into the gun, Gutierrez-Reed failed to check the bullets or the gun carefully, Halls failed to check the gun carefully and yet announced the gun was safe before handing it to Baldwin, and Zachry failed to disclose that Gutierrez-Reed had been acting recklessly off set and was a safety risk to those around her,” says the cross complaint (read it here) from Baldwin’s Quinn Emanuel attorney Luke Nikas.

    Recently having settled a wrongful death suit with Hutchins’ husband and family and intending to get Rust back on track, Baldwin has long declared he never pulled the trigger on the 1880s period gun that he was pointing at Hutchins on October 21, 2021.

    In a move that risks backfiring on Baldwin, today’s filing makes a point of noting how the aftermath of the shooting has impacted his career.

    “Baldwin has also lost numerous job opportunities and associated income,” it says. “For example, he’s been fired from multiple jobs expressly because of the incident on Rust and has been passed over for other opportunities, which is a direct result of the negligence of Cross-Defendants Gutierrez-Reed, Halls, Kenney, PDQ, and Zachry.” 

    Coming just over a week after Baldwin failed to convince a LASC judge to remove him from Rust script supervisor Mamie Mitchell’s own negligence lawsuit or see the matter dismissed, Friday’s filing also claims the Emmy winner has suffered personal consequences from the horrible October 2021 incident.

    “More than anyone else on that set, Baldwin has been wrongfully viewed as the perpetrator of this tragedy,” the actor’s lawyer writes of his client. “By these Cross-Claims, Baldwin seeks to clear his name and hold Cross-Defendants accountable for their misconduct.”...........