Spiking.

Lollipops23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075500#Comment_118075500

Agreed, as someone who studied Media Law- slander and defamation do exist in law in Ireland.

However, naming the bar in question would be no more libelous than me saying the perpetrator was wearing a certain brand of clothing (and the brand calling it libel).

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075425#Comment_118075425

I want a reliable source. Not Grift. A reliable source.

You might want to think about how the Garda Press Office could speak definitively on Tuesday lunchtime about what had or hadn't happened in hundreds of police stations around the country over the weekend.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075164#Comment_118075164

Maybe she felt a bit intimidated by idiots making jokes about assaulting women?

https://twitter.com/cool1nn/status/1452913631755227138?t=0fFiXd0Ggiuw6sKS3tsPcA&s=19

Some ratio there.

partyguinness

I've said this before but no medical evidence or hospital admission or even a GP visit to back any of this rubbish up but yet 'they' are running off to the tabloids and social media.

Multiple drugs...honestly...I almost feel like setting up a Twitter account just to go after this tripe.

partyguinness

I believe slander is the verbal form of defamation and libel is the written form but happy to be corrected.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075665#Comment_118075665

You are a decade or so out of date.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075534#Comment_118075534

From an actual lawyer; https://www.lawyer.ie/defamation/defamation-act-2009/

"The distinction between libel and slander is now abolished. A statutory “tort of defamation” (which incorporates both libel and slander) has been created."

And here's an example of the kind of nuance around 'truth as a defence' that you seem to have missed in your media law course. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/denis-obrien-barred-from-using-truth-or-honest-opinion-defence-in-defamation-case-gk0s8fbnz?t=ie

"“I am entirely satisfied that all six of the pleaded [defence] meanings arise from separate and distinct allegations in the impugned publication about which the plaintiff does not complain,” Heslin ruled while striking out the truth defence sought to be used by both O’Brien and Morrissey."

partyguinness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075746#Comment_118075746

That would be about right. It is over 20 years since I last studied it.

seamus

Ah here now, you can't accuse one person of making things up and then turn around and use Gript as a source. They're worse than liars.

It's very common for Gardai to say, "We have no reports of X", because they're not obliged to reveal anything to journalists or discuss ongoing investigations. In fact, it's a common method of discrediting someone; to ask Gardai if anything has been reported to them, knowing they'll say "No".

In terms of the libel/defamation piece, I think ye are overthinking it. People will often not name the premises in a case like this because they have it in their head that they'll get sued if they do.

Other internet randomers saying, "Tell us the name, it'll be grand" is hardly going to fill them with confidence.

partyguinness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075790#Comment_118075790

It's like the amount of accused/defendants who have "no fixed abode". I always found that curious but it was revealed to me that is just down to shield the family of the defendant especially if he is the type of lad that might have a few heads looking for him.

Of course they have a home but it is purposively withheld.

buried

Spiking with syringes in nightclubs? You need a good minute to inject any drug into a bloodstream area, plus steady light to find it, plus a stable body part to inject it in. Someone on a strobe-lit dancefloor prancing about to pop tunes is definitely going to notice this is happening, even if they are on 20 jagerbombs. If this was actually happening there would be arrests, multiple witnesses and hard evidence gathered immediately at the crime-scene.

Lollipops23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075869#Comment_118075869

I had my flu jab last week and I didn't even notice it going in. It took less than 2 seconds to be administered.

partyguinness

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075905#Comment_118075905

No doubt the setting was just like a nightclub at 1am with music blaring and all the trimmings...but seriously I too didnt even feel my Covid 1st jab..I actually asked myself had it been adminstered but there is just too much BS surrounding all this.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075905#Comment_118075905

Yeah but that was done in medical professional setting, no? Was it well lit? Did the professional administering the jab take some time to identify the area where they were going to administer the shot? I'm sure they did. Not the same in a dark nightclub trying to clandestinely place the shot, without anybody else seeing this going on to go with it.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075790#Comment_118075790

They asked for a source and got one. Why would would the Gardai refuse to say if they had a report or not? Simple fact is this type of crime in very rare, and as usual, has been over blown due to social media. There was poster saying this happens every Saturday night which was shown to be demonstrably false.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071142#Comment_118071142

Who is doing that? Also, are you going to back up your previous statements regarding the regularity of spiking or not?

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075922#Comment_118075922

Oh so now all of this is BS is it?

Ever been in a nightclub where you've been packed in like sardines? Bump into someone?

Honestly, the amount of people here trying to discredit anybody who makes any claim is terrifying.

Same people would be the first ones to tell others to mind their drinks as well, only to not believe them later on.

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075608#Comment_118075608

Yeah, what would the Garda press office know. It's not like the guards have a computer that records all the crimes that happen in the country....oh wait...

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076287#Comment_118076287

It's from the usual 'be proven wrong so attack the source' play book.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076287#Comment_118076287

Oh wait indeed.

https://www.thejournal.ie/pulse-system-garda-inspectorate-report-2-1774611-Nov2014/

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075978#Comment_118075978

I'm pretty sure that spiking has and will continue to go on in the likes of nightclubs and other late venues where public inebriation goes on. That's logical, sad but logical.

What isn't logical are these new claims that now a new breed of serial potential rapist is now going out in various countries, seemingly in numbers, simultaneously, armed with a new method of poisoning through syringes, with the capability to administer doses of drugs into peoples bloodstreams, in nightclubs, without anybody seeing this visibly intrusive, outlandish and crazy behaviour, with high numbers of witnesses and surveillance security cameras within these sort of places.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076380#Comment_118076380

Heroin addict with drug paraphenalia gets arrested in club while selling benzos..evidence of widespread spiking!!!!!!!

KaneToad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076297#Comment_118076297

That article states that less than 1 in ten crimes take longer than a week to be recorded. And that seems to be adversely impacted by specific garda areas..DMR South, Laois/Offaly and Mayo..

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076297#Comment_118076297

So 90% are reported within a week and of those that aren't the majority are for "road offences, followed by insurance and theft". So the majority of crimes are recorded as per the protocols. You are clutching at straws.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076297#Comment_118076297

“We don’t provide comment on third party materials (Twitter). The response made available is up to date.”

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076452#Comment_118076452

Longer than a week! And you're relying on the 'definitive response ' just 24 hours on a very unusual incident that could well have been miscategorised?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074555#Comment_118074555

If you were a potential spiker, what type of person would you be more likely to try to target? A completely sober one or one that already had a few drinks? Never mind the logistics of getting something into their drink without them noticing ... looking at the posts on here you'd have a fair idea that any attack you perpetrated would subsequently be sneerily written off by society as the victim's own fault and just their overindulgence in alcohol.

I did post earlier about a 100% teetotal girl I know who was spiked as a teenager and ended up in hospital. If you met her and she told you that story, I'd assume you'd confidently tell her that she just had too much to drink? Even though she doesn't drink and never has (for genuine medical reasons).

BorneTobyWilde

It's a culture, I mean even today it's seen as funny in reruns of shows.

https://streamable.com/3ld6ry

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076871#Comment_118076871

What are you getting so angry about? Nobody claimed that this doesn't happen, but that there are lots of people who wrongly claim to have experienced this for their own reasons. Does that not anger you, given that you were present for your friend's experience?

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076297#Comment_118076297

I can't believe noone has pointed out fact the article you linked is from 2014

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077178#Comment_118077178

Not getting angry and I never said I was present for her experience (which may or may not be some kind of an attempt at a "set-up" on your part). If you are surprised to learn that some people don't drink alcohol, wait til you learn that some people aren't lucky enough to be born with two fully functioning kidneys.

I do know a girl who was spiked and raped but given I was told that in confidence, I will not be elaborating further. That behaviour is particularly rife on US college campuses.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077260#Comment_118077260

So you're confident that all incidents are recorded promptly in Pulse now?

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077313#Comment_118077313

That's quite a conclusion to jump to. I didn't say that. But one would assume an incident if this magnitude would be recorded quite promptly.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077284#Comment_118077284

Apologies, I might have misunderstood your previous post and thought you had been present. Why assume immediately that I meant to set you up?

It is heartwarming how you feel for drugged and raped friend in the US. I am not sure why you bring it up if you cannot elaborate or discuss it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077442#Comment_118077442

Someday you might look back on your sneery posts and feel some shame.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077505#Comment_118077505

Not gonna happen, so try your luck elsewhere. Plenty of folk on this site to follow on anecdotes so you should be fine.

CaitCat

When I lived in London I was on a work night out and my drink was spiked.

I wasn't drunk, I only had 2 drinks. I had moved to another bar with a good friend when I felt the effects, only way I can describe the experience is that it was like I was seeing things through a camera lens, like I was far away and couldn't act. My housemate tried to talk to me but I was blank faced, I blacked out at home and slept for 15 hours.

I didn't report it because (as you see in lots of the comments) people assume that I drank too much.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076729#Comment_118076729

Article is from 2014 so 7 years old, and of the 10% that took a week to be reported the majority werenot for the type of crime in question here. The Gardai have stated that no reports were made. You simply don't want to accept this as it doesn't align with your view that these spiking instances are as prevalent as is currently being made out.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079334#Comment_118079334

It doesn't matter what people presume. You should've gone to the police regardless. Happy to here your friend was there to ensure nothing more serious took place

CaitCat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079579#Comment_118079579

You've not had much dealing with the police in London. I had a much more serious offence happen to me and my friends and nothing came of that. They didn't follow it up, despite chasing it.

In this case I had no proof, couldn't say exactly when it happened and no serious crime was committed. It would be filed away and forgotten about.

But thank you for your judgement.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079573#Comment_118079573

The article says that 10% took MORE than a week to be reported, and you're jumping to conclusions after less than 24 hours for an unusual incident that could well have been miscategorised. What categories of offences did they check for?

And btw, where did I give any view about the prevalence of spiking instances?

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079622#Comment_118079622

What judgement?

It's better to have a case on file then no case at all. And a spiking is a fairly serious crime.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079669#Comment_118079669

Yes, 7 years ago.

The article in question is from yesterday, so more than 24 hours since the offence would've occurred. The simple point is such instances have been vastly over played, and you are clutching at straws, by posting articles that are 7 years old and now seemingly suggesting that the Gardai wouldn't know how to correctly categorise crimes.

Maybe you didn't, and I confused you with another poster. So, what are your views on the prevalence of such crimes?

whisky_galore

"had no proof, couldn't say exactly when it happened and no serious crime was committed."

There's your problem, right there. Doubt any police force in the world would launch an investigation with just that to go on.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079701#Comment_118079701

You have been following current affairs with the Gardai over the seven years, right? The inability to count breathalyser tests, the intentional ignoring of 999 calls, ongoing even while the investigation to the historical issue is taking - not exactly bastions of rigid procedure. What category of offence do you reckon they should have been searching for on their computers?

My own view on the prevalence of such crimes is that I don't know. I don't know what's going on. I'm certainly not going to attack and sneer at women who say they have been assaulted because their story doesn't detail what colour knickers they were wearing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079720#Comment_118079720

I guess that's why two thirds of women who are raped don't report matters to the Gardai

https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/just-one-third-of-rape-and-sexual-assault-victims-reported-crimes-to-gardai-40824068.html

and why only a tiny percentage of those actually reported to the Gardai get to Court.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40219550.html

Ever think you might be making things too easy for rapists?

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079760#Comment_118079760

All of that is irrelevant. The simple fact is there were no reports over the last weekend. You are making huge leaps of faith. Ignoring 999 calls and breathalyser abnormalities have nothing to do with this. You are simply attempting to undermine the Gardai in their entirety in order to suggest that there was indeed a reported spiking last weekend, a crime that is rare to begin with. You started initially by trying to undermine the source provided (Gript), and are now attempting the same with the Gardai themselves. I don't know the answer to your 2nd question. But then again, I'm not a Garda, the kind of people who would know. Good to know you won't be attacking women, though I don't know why you felt the need to tell me, I had presumed it already. We are on the same page with that at least.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079622#Comment_118079622

If you have been spiked? 100% it is a serious crime! To opine otherwise is dangerous tbh. If a person feels they have been spiked, they should most definitely both attend hospital as soon as soon as possible to ensure appropriate toxicology is carried out, and report the incident to the police as near immediately as possible.

In the UK spiking is prosecutable via multiple charges such as "Administration of a Noxious Substance" which carries a sentence of up to 3yrs. That's the minimum charge available tbh. Any CPS prosecutor presented with such a case? Would very likely seek to charge it differently via the Offences against The Person Act 1861 which allows for sentences of up to 10yrs.

"Section 23: Unlawfully and maliciously administering, or causing to be administered to or taken any poison or other destructive or noxious thing so as to endanger life, thereby inflicting grievous bodily harm. The maximum sentence is 10 years' imprisonment and the offence is indictable only.

Section 24: Unlawfully and maliciously administering or causing to be administered to or taken any poison or other destructive or noxious thing with intent to injure, aggrieve or annoy the person taking the substance. The maximum sentence is 5 years imprisonment and the offence is indictable only."

Interestingly, the 1861 act is the primary basis for identifying and prosecuting offences of the "spiking" type in Ireland too. A hangover from our pre1922 history but also! A means of ensuring "good" legislation is allowed continue in force despite its "British" origin.

Much of the the 1861 act has been superseded by the Non Fatal Offences against the Person Act 1997, of which section 6 is of particular note. As it carries a potential charge for syringe attacks, which the current panic would imply is becoming common.

6.—(1) A person who—

(a) injures another by piercing the skin of that other with a syringe, or

(b) threatens to so injure another with a syringe,

with the intention of or where there is a likelihood of causing that other to believe that he or she may become infected with disease as a result of the injury caused or threatened shall be guilty of an offence.

TLDR: Never ever assume that because you fear being spiked will be dismissed that "no serious crime has been committed" act upon your worry.

You may have at the very least been victim of an offence that carries a 10yr tariff. Yes the possibility that worse may have happened and a feeling that you escaped that may colour a want for justice or indeed reporting it.

But, anyone, ANYONE! Who feels they have been victim of such an attack, really should report it and seek appropriate support.

The academic evidence posted earlier in the thread points to random drug based spiking being exceedingly rare. It provides copious data in support of that conclusion and without people reporting instances where they feel they have been attacked in this manner?

The evidence available without those reports and gathered evidence will continue to support the notion of widespread drug spiking in pubs/clubs/venues will remain to be solely anecdotal and unevidenced.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079334#Comment_118079334

Sorry this happened to you.

As for everyone else telling you what you should have done, they're best off ignored because if you did report it to the police, and your story ended up in the paper, the same people pretending to feel sorry for you now probably would have called you a liar anyway.

I understand exactly why you didn't go to police. Short of catching someone in the act it's nearly impossible to prove.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079818#Comment_118079818

The leap of faith here is the suggest that Grift (home of the far-right, anti-women policies) asked the right question to the Press Office, that the Garda Press Office managed to get a definitive answer covering hundreds of stations (in the context of public, known issues of how they record information) about a very unusual incident, that could be categorised under a number of different offences, all within 24 hours, and that Grift reported the answer accurately.

If you can make that leap, you should qualify for the next Olympics.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080746#Comment_118080746

Good point Andrew and TBH, this is a point that needs reiterating. The source of a report, the bias implied and even more importantly the inclusion of the report/quote/info that an outlet bases it's reporting on are vital to it's credibility.

On that basis, gript should be very far down anyone's list of reliable sources.

Gript could have very easily appended the reply received from the Gardaí to the query. It would be a straightforward 1st hand source, that readers could interprets they wish.

Instead gript throw in a few selected sentences from the answer they received, interspersed with reportage. That reportage could include speculation and quotes from named sources, whinge about Regina Doherty.

The story should include the entire statement as received from the Gardaí. Gript can still apply any reportage style they like, but laying out the statement they rely on as the basis of their story?

Would make fact checking and searching for corroboration far simpler.

Gript does not present news, it spins news into rightwing views.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080746#Comment_118080746

Yes yes, attack the source and the Gardai as expected. Going by your logic, the Gardai press office cannot be counted on to give correct information anytime ever. The simple fact is that there was no recorded crime, which is not unexpected as this crime is rare.