just noticed a lot of these articles in the British media over the last few weeks https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10118013/Nightclub-spiking-victims-ordeal-left-semi-paralysed-highlights-risks-women-facing.html
While i believe "spiking" does occasionally happen, I wonder how many of these stories are people who voluntarily ingested substances but do not recall ingesting them because they were intoxicated
“Imagine if it was your daughter/sister/girlfriend”
why? What difference does this make?
I am curious. I have gone back and reread the article.
Now, I am only going on the contents of the article but I cannot see any mention whatsoever of people being taken to hospital and tested to confirm 'spiking'. There is nothing medical to back up these claims but strangely we have some pictures of basically a passed out student on the stairs. Any blood/urine tests?
If this poor girl was so paralyised then why was she not taken to hospital? Why was an ambulance not called? But yet they took photos!! There is no mention anywhere of the nature of this supposed drug/substance.
The article is full of vague generalities based on anecdotes from pissed up students.
Any suspicions of spiking should be taken seriously of course but this reeks.
No it's the dismissal of the notion that there is some epidemic of spiking going on. As if the risk has "spiked" recently if that's the right term. General consensus is that the problem is currently being greatly exaggerated and the bandwagon effect of social media is causing people to misjudge the risks to be way bigger than they actually are.
"Imagine if it was your daughter/sister/girlfriend..."
Men don't need to imagine this in order to be empathetic to women.
I'd agree that A is more prevant than B (and still much less prevalent than them just drinking too much all by themselves). And of course, somebody who was spiked with more alcohol might never find that out, and imagine it was some other substance.
In my case it was 'harmless craic' from friends, but I'm not sure it can always be attributed to 'harmless craic' really. There's nothing new about very drunk people being preyed on for sexual assault or robbery. It's not that hard to imagine how somebody could take the extra step to bring about that drunkenness in the first place.
Exactly this. Thank you.
It's the complete dismissal of women which is the issue here from people who have never been spiked in their lives.
Shur nearly everyone is saying that. I said it too here earlier about myself when younger.
People keep posting "spiking? More like too much booze" as if it's really original and they're really clever. When pretty much everyone who posted before them has said it.
We've well established that that can be the case. Well established it. The question here is whether there actually is spiking women going on at the moment. Try to give women the benefit of the doubt instead of dismissing them as lying, devious, attention seeking shrews - or only liking what they say when it's honest. 😉
Imagine if it was your daughter/sister/girlfriend...
I guess the question is when someone says "Oh my drink was spiked last night" what do they mean:
A. Somebody slipped in a vodka behind my back (you would have to think that would be a close 'friend' in the same social group on the basis of having some ill conceived harmless craic e.g. moronic students)
B. Someone slipped in a drug/stimulant- far more insidiuous and devious
You would think A would be be more prevalent than B.
The point is to get somebody more drunk than they plan/want to get. Somebody who plans to have say 3 or 4 pints, but a vodka gets slipped in two or three times, so they end up drinking much more than they believe, and their awareness and judgement suffers correspondingly.
Ofthe people who claim to have been spiked, I would guess that those who have had some drug administered is very rare, but those secretly slipped extra alcohol is less rare, and of course there are plenty of those who just drank too much all by themselves.
The “they only had alcohol in their system” argument doesn’t address that middle group.
Not that I've seen or heard as of yet. I do remember that the last time this particular moral panic was popular that a consultant in A+E medicine was on Irish TV, fairly sure it was tv3/VM news.
He categorically stated that in his time of A+E practice he has never encountered or heard tell of a confirmed case of narcotic spiking.
The most prolific known rapist in the UK, used GHB to incapacitate his victims. He 1st convinced them to come home with him, so he had control of them and the situation when the drug kicked in. A review of his modus operandi gives a good overview of the the degree of control a predator needs before even GHB is a practical tactic. Isolation, drunkenness and risky behaviour were met with a "good" Samaritan who then manipulated a situation to fully control and administer GHB in a safe(for the attacker) location.
I've also been having a trawl through JSTOR and PubMed and the widest study and review of studies I can find is from 2017.
Plenty of meat in the review itself, but from the abstract.
This comprehensive review suggests that alcohol intoxication combined with voluntary drug consumption presents the greatest risk factor for DFSA, despite populist perceptions that covert drink-spiking is a common occurrence.
Would strongly refute the notion that there is any widespread spiking going on. This is a persistent trope that recurs every few years. What's different regarding this particular rerun? A period of prolonged nightclub closures, social distancing and far more likely than any illicit application of GHB? A lowered alcohol tolerance from far less actual pubbing/clubbing and the enthusiastic drinking of youth 😉 are far, far more likely to place a person at risk than any likelihood of a stranger managing to both spike your drink in public (or stick some magic needle into you) and there subsequent ability to manage a person affected by such a substance.
Just wondering if this has made it on to any IRish radio discussions recently?
Normally when a topic like this becomes one of the trending items, something like the Last Word would do a piece on it.
Would be interesting to hear someone from A&E Dept come on, and tell us about all the spiked people they are dealing with.
Its called hyperbole
I didn’t see anyone claiming that it doesn’t ever happen. But I will certainly not give credit to a dramatic publicised claim that it is a widespread pandemic without any statistics or evidence being provided to back this up.
Allowing “wannabe victims” to publicise their ordeals is imo doing the real victims a disservice.
Nobody called anyone a liar. Now you are just getting hysterical. Read the posts. I answered you- you didnt like the answer and then chose to adopt deflection tactics.
So now you have moved outside the domain of clubs to "...nearly everywhere, every weekend...". This is terrible- should I be worried? Do I need to shakedown my employees? Should I quizz the local creche?
So let me get this right:-
You are saying with complete confidence no less and without any shred of evidence whatsoever that spiking takes place (we are still talking about drugs here and not volleyball, right?) in nearly every club around the country on a Saturday night because...well..the world is a horrible place so it is. Right you are.
Claiming that I have no evidence..oh the irony is completely lost on you...there is no evidence and you my friend have just proved my point. I have repeatedly asked you to back up your statement and you cannot do it... so I really do not have to do anything- you have done it for me. But then again, who needs imperical evidence when you have such complete confidence....😂
The notion of mass regular spikings "nearly everywhere" is exactly the type of nonsense that piss off the hosptial staff.
I love your honesty.
Spiking of drinks is one of those urban legends where the fear of it greatly exceeds the actual occurrence of it. When I was young everyone was scared of it, because there were always distant rumours, friends of friends, who had passed out drunk one night and blamed it on getting drinks spiked. For years I used to keep my thumb over a bottle of beer in a nightclub, until I eventually realised this was total hyperbole and most people there were just trying to have a good time.
I think the current trend has evolved out of Twitter. Spiking is so "hot" right now.
Nobody is saying otherwise, but people here are flat out denying that spiking takes place and are calling women liars.
Alcohol (I believe) is one of the more common ways of doing it. Again people here look at everything in a black and white situation and just dismiss everything.
I didn’t shift any goalposts. You were the one who wasn’t ‘man enough’ and refused to answer a simple question.
You have never been spiked but yet you’re telling women who have been that they’re liars because of one anecdotal A&E professional whom you have linked nothing to.
I can just as easily claim you haven’t a shred of evidence to back up what you are saying.
I can say with plenty of confidence that spiking happens nearly everywhere, every weekend, because I live in the real world where people are horrible bastards, and I don’t just dismiss every issue that is highlighted and proceed to victim blame.
I am not so sure about that i.e. it is much much more common. Think about it...what's the point? Fair to suggest that most people out in a pub/club will be drinking anyway so I am not sure that really helps.
I will try to find the article from the A&E doctors in one of Dublin's hospitald from a few years back bemoaning the nightgoers turnng up claiming to have been spiked. Even if we allow for the fact that not everyone will necessarily go to hospital the fact is he stated that over several decades he had never seen a positive spiking was interesting and he said his colleagues across the board said the same.
It was an article more specific to rohypnol which has thrown around quite a lot 20 years ago. Yeah like lads up and down the country have access to powerful drugs only available on prescription. If your drink is spiked with rohypnol you don't just black out for an hour or two...you are gone for anything up to 12 hours...you don't just spring to life at closing time to collect your coat wondering what happened.
So once we cut through the goal post shifting you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back up your bold claim that spiking takes place in nearly every club every Saturday night. Good man. At least be man enough to admit it.
A lot of people will willingly consume copious amounts of offered alcohol without “needing” to be spiked.
I'd doubt this is a widespread successful practice, too difficult to pull off unnoticed. Has anyone been caught doing it and a syringe recovered? I haven't read many articles in depth. I'd have no doubt there would be men that might try it if the chances of success was high and detection very low
I think it's worth pointing out again that people thinking they've been spiked but only having alcohol in their system doesn't mean they haven't been spiked with alcohol. It's a much much more common thing to do I'd imagine. You don't need to literally render them unconscious, just disoriented and defenceless.
You asked me a question first?
Some nice revisionism there. You didn’t ask me anything until you asked for evidence, that was after I asked had you been spiked.
You have made many statements and provided sweet f*ck all to back them up, so why should I go through all the effort when you refuse to answer a simple question?
I’m the child? You are the one refusing to answer a simple question.
You sound like a child. Bearing in mind I asked you a quesiton first which you ignored but apparently two different standards apply here. I'lI be the bigger man- I have no idea if I've every been spiked. There you go.
I never said women were liars- where did I say that? What I said was people convince themselves that they were spiked when in reality 99.999% of the time they simply drank too much without realising it.
Now, once again. Where is the evidence to back up your claim that spiking takes place in nearly every club on a Saturday (not Friday night or Monday night mind).
You made the statement and I am simply aksing for some sort of link/evidence.
And I explained to you that it is of relevance.
Why should I engage with you in anyway if you refuse to answer a simple question?
You won’t answer mine, so I’m not answering yours. Discussions work when both people actually engage in the topic instead of only answering the questions they want.
This suggests to me that you have never been spiked, and yet you’re pontificating about how women are liars and how it only happens every few years (where’s your evidence for this, btw?).
The difference to be noted here is that insulin is a medication designed to be delivered to the subcutaneous layer. I know of no narcotic/sedative that is delivered in such a manner or via as fine a needle.
Any drug of that type is usually a large bore intramuscular injection, or small gauge intravenous.
You only have to look at an insulin pen needle funny for it to bend. Those needle are also extremely short to ensure that the medication isn't injected too deep. Noone is using that type of delivery device to inject narcotics. The whole point of spiking is to ensure compliance and control of the victim. Using a delivery method that is high hisk, visible and far more likely to fail than succeed?
Makes absolutely zero sense.
Whatever about drinks being tampered with, injecting as a method of "discrete" is a near impossibility.
It is of no relevance that is my answer. I prefer to be guided by the medical staff who repeatedly rubbish claims of mass regular spikings such as the statement made by you. Of course it happens occassionaly but this notion of mass regular spikings every week is rubbish and there is no medical evidence to back this up. Of course, you may wish to count some lads anecdotal experience that he thinks he was 'spiked' but no medical tests to back it up.
Proof of spiking requires mnedical tests in a hospital. Ask anyone who claims to have been spiked..and I have plenty of times...did they go to hospital? No. Strange that. Self diagnosing spiking.
Once again. Where is the evidence to back up your claim that spiking takes place in nearly every club on a Saturday (not Friday night or Monday night mind).
It is of huge relevance. You’re telling people here what spiking is like and how women who are reporting it are liars.
So your own personal experiences are of great relevance.
I’ll ask you again, have you ever been spiked and do you know what it’s like?
That is of no relevance plus you ignored my question.
Now back to your rather bold statement, where is your evidence/proof that spiking takes place in nearly every club on a Saturday night.
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