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Anti-Racism Campaign launched targeting LGBT+

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    #32
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,304 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076217#Comment_118076217


    Well I'm a bit confused by your position. You claimed your issue with this is that it's not needed as there are already anti-racism campaigns in place and one targeted at gay community is not needed.

    No. My primary problem with this is targeting an anti-racism campaign on a tiny 1.5% of the overall population. It's just plain wrong.



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    #33
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076461#Comment_118076461

    Every little helps. I think it's plain right.



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    #34
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its very odd to turn this all into victimhood for cis white gay males 🙄

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #35
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074955#Comment_118074955

    Yes. If you are not attracted to someone of course its ok to say so. If you are openly saying on your profiles no Asians I think thats very different and I consider it racist.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #36
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076015#Comment_118076015

    I think the point of this campaign is that its a different form of racism and can be overtly sexualised or very exclusionary and also that Black or Minority Ethnic LGBT+ people can face racism/bigotry in LGBT+ places/spaces and then homophobia/transphobia in other places/spaces e.g. within minority ethnic communities such as Travelling community or indeed in direct provision. So this campaign is actually not just about racism at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #37
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,304 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077498#Comment_118077498


    So this campaign is actually not just about racism at all.

    It essentially is. You mentioned 'sexual racism'. I looked it up and the explanation of it is that black objectification is a consequences of racism, not just some sexual fetish. So if an Indian guy had a sexual fetish for white guys, that wouldn't considered sexual racism because of course the Indian guy couldn't possibly be racist towards the white guy only the other way around. So there won't ever be any campaigns to highlight the objections of white men in India any times soon, or ever.

    https://academic.oup.com/jcmc/article/26/3/129/6262058

    There are a number of similar study's as that one, many of them mentioning Grindr, the well know 'hook up app' where as you know gay men make it clear what they are looking physically and commonly state are looking for a one off sexual encounter.

    So as far as I can see the only evidence they have of sexual racism is what gay men say on the Grindr dating app where they say they've seen people say no asians, no blacks. It must be 20 years since I've ever seen anyone see those things said on a dating app. Gaydar probably in dial-up days. It just isn't common at all unless maybe in places like Australia where I happen to know white Asians have a big thing for white western men!

    So clearly the reason those study's focus on Grindr is because there is no equivalent in the hetro world. Because men can be frank with other men in a way men cannot be with women on hetro dating apps. And of course they are using this gay sourced evidence as an indicator of something that is prevalent outside of the gay world. Weak AF evidence.

    But yea, we do get the 'Intersectioniality' thing, meaning that one is of more than one 'minority' demographic. Its' a term coined in the states by Critical Race Theorists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberlé_Williams_Crenshaw which gives strong clues as to what kind of people run the Gay Project.

    What difference it makes to anything I really don't know unless we're meant to feel doubly, trebly, or even perhaps quadruply sorry for them. But you know what, it's obviously just another angle to talk about racism and the big bad white patriarchy 24/7.



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    #38
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077877#Comment_118077877


    It essentially is. You mentioned 'sexual racism'. I looked it up and the explanation of it is that black objectification is a consequences of racism, not just some sexual fetish. So if an Indian guy had a sexual fetish for white guys, that wouldn't considered sexual racism because of course the Indian guy couldn't possibly be racist towards the white guy only the other way around. So there won't ever be any campaigns to highlight the objections of white men in India any times soon, or ever.

    As a white guy on Grindr quite a lot, I don't think I've ever been fetishised for being white. Not even once.

    Every single black guy I've ever met in Dublin is inundated with messages about BBC.

    If you go on Grindr in Dublin as a black person your experience will be heavily about your race. That's not the same for white people no matter how much you pretend that the generic preference for white guys is the exact same thing.

    So as far as I can see the only evidence they have of sexual racism is what gay men say on the Grindr dating app where they say they've seen people say no asians, no blacks. It must be 20 years since I've ever seen anyone see those things said on a dating app. Gaydar probably in dial-up days. It just isn't common at all unless maybe in places like Australia where I happen to know white Asians have a big thing for white western men!

    It's true you don't see it much anymore. It's no longer socially acceptable to write it. Doesn't mean the racism behind it has improved. I had an Asian friend in Dublin (who has now left) that was constantly told when he was being rejected in a club "I'm not into Asians". I'm not talking once or twice. It was consistent and very upsetting for him. Nobody has ever once mentioned my race when rejecting me. Why is that?

    So clearly the reason those study's focus on Grindr is because there is no equivalent in the hetro world. Because men can be frank with other men in a way men cannot be with women on hetro dating apps. And of course they are using this gay sourced evidence as an indicator of something that is prevalent outside of the gay world. Weak AF evidence.

    From the study:

    "Yet, discrimination on same-sex dating apps remains insufficiently researched, as noted by...This study hence focuses on same-sex attracted men, which includes gay and bisexual men."

    The study is pretty clear that it's focus and implications are for same sex dating apps. You are inventing that they are using a study on Grindr to draw conclusions outside of the gay world.

    You're also compeltely contradicting yourself again. You state you have a problem with drawing conclusions about racism in general from evidence of racism in the gay community (even though that's not what the study is doing but let's pretend for the sake of argument it is). However you also think racism can only be tackled in a general population wide approach not focussing on specific communities. But you can't have it both ways.



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    #39
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    At this stage I havent a clue what the point of this thread is really. It seems like the main point is to harangue an ngo for daring to highlight racism and a strange inference that settled cis white gay men are opressed by human rights campaigners.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #40
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,304 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118078096#Comment_118078096

    As a white guy on Grindr quite a lot, I don't think I've ever been fetishised for being white. Not even once.Every single black guy I've ever met in Dublin is inundated with messages about BBC.If you go on Grindr in Dublin as a black person your experience will be heavily about your race. That's not the same for white people no matter how much you pretend that the generic preference for white guys is the exact same thing.

    Well of course you didn't because Dublin's gay scene is hardly 1% BAME. You seem to know them all. Do you have a 'thing' for them lol. Which if so is totally fine. In any case I never denied racism exists.

    True story; There's a gay bar in London for Asians and their admirers, I would to go there with my white British Asian friend of Hong Kong heritage. He pointed out to me a very handsome guy, 6'2", tall and very fit guy named Pierce who was a regular there, because all the Asians guys were after him. I'd see him often in the nightclub regularly since shadowed by a edit: group of Asians following on behind him wherever he went like a duck and it's goslings following on behind. So funny. One of the more peculiar things I ever saw on the gay scene. Oh, and critical point is they were all very short, and Pierce was very tall, so clear case of sexual objectification there for his physical attributes, if not for his manhood.

    It's true you don't see it much anymore. It's no longer socially acceptable to write it. Doesn't mean the racism behind it has improved. I had an Asian friend in Dublin (who has now left) that was constantly told when he was being rejected in a club "I'm not into Asians". I'm not talking once or twice. It was consistent and very upsetting for him. Nobody has ever once mentioned my race when rejecting me. Why is that?

    No that's not right. People have cottoned on that saying what your 'not' looking is not a good strategy because it's looks negative and a waste of text viewers don't want to read. Better to say what you are looking for. You have to look at it like writing your CV in terms of the impression it makes as well. Does't mean it had racist intent at all. So you know lots of Asians as well now. If someone was coming on to me I wouldn't say anything no matter who they were (unless they were making a pass), I'd just ignore them till they get the message. I think that's the standard way of getting the message across. Bit sceptical about all your reports to be honest. My reports as the one above about Pierce have context and thus believable.

    "Yet, discrimination on same-sex dating apps remains insufficiently researched, as noted by...This study hence focuses on same-sex attracted men, which includes gay and bisexual men."

    The study is pretty clear that it's focus and implications are for same sex dating apps. You are inventing that they are using a study on Grindr to draw conclusions outside of the gay world

    So...are you inferring here that white hetro men don't objectify black women? But they objectify white women all the time, as we hear of regularly these days?. Hmm. All I am saying is there is really noting unique going on in the gay scene that doesn't happen the other way around somewhere in the world. A reminder that most gay social 'scenes' only exist in Western type countries. When Bangladesh opens it's first gay nightclub I might go visit, I'm sure I'd be really popular with the locals.

    You're also compeltely contradicting yourself again. You state you have a problem with drawing conclusions about racism in general from evidence of racism in the gay community (even though that's not what the study is doing but let's pretend for the sake of argument it is). However you also think racism can only be tackled in a general population wide approach not focussing on specific communities. But you can't have it both ways.

    I had no idea what you were talking about last time you said I was contradicting myself nor this time either. I'm happy for you to continue to believe I'm contradicting myself because I believe you are just nitpicking and being argumentative for the sake of it. You believe the campaign is warranted. Okay fine.



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    #41
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,304 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080895#Comment_118080895

    It's to 'raise awareness' about the activities of NGO's



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    #42
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081812#Comment_118081812

    Well of course you didn't because Dublin's gay scene is hardly 1% BAME. You seem to know them all. Do you have a 'thing' for them lol. Which if so is totally fine. In any case I never denied racism exists.

    Firstly I need to point out how bizarrely you interpret the things I say. I said "every black guy I've met in Dublin". That could be 2, it could be 10, it could be 50 for all you know. Yet you interpret this as me "knowing them all". How insane is that. You continue it below with Asian guys where I said ONE individual. It seems with any race you basically treat them as one individual. Me knowing even ONE individual of another race is seen by you as knowing every member of that race. It explains a lot about your posts and how you see people of other races.

    True story; There's a gay bar in London for Asians and their admirers, I would to go there with my white British Asian friend of Hong Kong heritage. He pointed out to me a very handsome guy, 6'2", tall and very fit guy named Pierce who was a regular there, because all the Asians guys were after him. I'd see him often in the nightclub regularly since shadowed by a edit: group of Asians following on behind him wherever he went like a duck and it's goslings following on behind. So funny. One of the more peculiar things I ever saw on the gay scene. Oh, and critical point is they were all very short, and Pierce was very tall, so clear case of sexual objectification there for his physical attributes, if not for his manhood.

    Aren't you white? Were they "following you around"? Did they make sexual comments about your whiteness to you? Surely if this guy was being fetishised for his whiteness you would have been subjected to the same.

    No that's not right. People have cottoned on that saying what your 'not' looking is not a good strategy because it's looks negative and a waste of text viewers don't want to read. Better to say what you are looking for. You have to look at it like writing your CV in terms of the impression it makes as well. Does't mean it had racist intent at all. So you know lots of Asians as well now. If someone was coming on to me I wouldn't say anything no matter who they were (unless they were making a pass), I'd just ignore them till they get the message. I think that's the standard way of getting the message across. Bit sceptical about all your reports to be honest. My reports as the one above about Pierce have context and thus believable.

    So when I tell an anecdote it's fictional but according to you yours is believable.....you really do live in a fantasy world.

    By the way I have discussed the experiences of that friend before on the trans thread. If I was making it up I would have come up with an example of a trans friend not an Asian friend.

    I assume that since instead of claiming it's not racist to tell someone you're rejecting them based on their race you're claiking I made it up you do consider it to be racist.

    So racism does happen on the gay scene in Ireland.

    So...are you inferring here that white hetro men don't objectify black women? But they objectify white women all the time, as we hear of regularly these days?. Hmm. All I am saying is there is really noting unique going on in the gay scene that doesn't happen the other way around somewhere in the world. A reminder that most gay social 'scenes' only exist in Western type countries.

    Where are you getting that nonsense I neither inferred or implied anything of the sort. You made a claim about what the study was concluding. I refuted that claim. I never said anything about straight people, white or otherwise. But this is classic Allforit. Instead of dealing with what I actually said, use any tactic to deflect discussion into a topic you're more comfortable with.

    When Bangladesh opens it's first gay nightclub I might go visit, I'm sure I'd be really popular with the locals

    I seriously doubt it. You're clearly no Philip.



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    #43
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,304 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082547#Comment_118082547

    It explains a lot about your posts and how you see people of other races.

    Finally I got you to say it. You could have just said that from the very beginning, it would have saved us this back and forth. It's not like you were ever going to agree with a single word of what I said in post 3 as you instantly concluded my motivation for starting this thread in the first place is because I'm racist.



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    #44
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085083#Comment_118085083

    I was open to your opinions until you claimed that because I have met some black gay guys in Dublin that I "know them all".

    You seem to view other races as one big identical individual. If you don't want people to conclude these things about you then don't post stuff that suggests it.

    So next time someone tells you about the experience of ONE Asian friend maybe don't respond "oh you seem to know a lot of them".



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    #45
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    It's also worth pointing out that because I have slept with some black guys you portray it as a fetish asking me "do you have a thing for them".

    As if someone couldn't possibly find a black person attractive as an individual and could only see their race.

    Would you ask someone who has slept with a few white guys if they have a white fetish?



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    #46
    The Quintessence Model
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087377#Comment_118087377

    The fetishizing of gay black men is well known about. Stop doing it. Do better.


    https://medium.com/@LPP1/dear-white-gay-men-please-stop-fetishizing-black-men-f71e9f9a7f29



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    #47
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118343984#Comment_118343984

    You're doubling down on your argument that anyone who has slept with a black person is fetishising them?

    Can someone not find an individual black person attractive then?

    That's a bit racist.



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    #48
    The Quintessence Model
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344354#Comment_118344354

    I'm not doubling down on anything. Try listening to minorities within the community instead of simply viewing them as objects for your own sexual gratification. Did you even read the article posted? Do better llmmll, do better.



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    #49
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344370#Comment_118344370

    Can you quote where I view a minority as being for my sexual gratification?

    An actual quote, not some crazy interpretation of what I said.



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    #50
    The Quintessence Model
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344376#Comment_118344376

    So you didn't read the article then. This is exactly why these anti-racism are needed, and there should be more of them to root out the rampant racism exhibited in the LGBT community.



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    #51
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,619 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    This thread is a joke. Virtue-signalling and looking to be deeply offended on behalf of others, as per usual...

    Apparently if you are LGBT and you don't have a sexual preference for non-white people, you are a racist.

    But then again, if you find black men hot and attractive, you are ALSO a racist for "fetishising" them... 😏🤔😒

    This attempt to collectively guilt a minority (LGBT ostensibly, but it's clear it's white gay Irish men who are being targeted here) into a perceived shame over alleged racism is utterly disingenuous and pathetic.

    Why not tackle the broader issue of racism in Ireland as a whole? Why attack a minority who have faced historical oppression ourselves?

    For what it's worth, us Irish have done pretty well in accommodating racial minorities into our country compared to many others. Yes there are issues with race here - but tell me where in the world where there is not.

    Perfect example of those looking for offence where none really exists and to point fingers and blame others in order to validate their own deep-seated insecurities and guilt.



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    #52
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344382#Comment_118344382

    So you can't point out anywhere I sexually objectified black people. Pretty much as I thought.



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    #53
    The Quintessence Model
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344994#Comment_118344994

    The fact that you don't realize your own objectification and fetishisation says it all. The campaign in the OP exist to educate people such as yourself. More of them are needed, as clearly, more education is needed.



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    #54
    y0ssar1an22
    Registered Users Posts: 16,229 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    this was always a downstream result of mad left wing ideology.... everyone must be in a certain box or group.

    be more like me...i dont give a **** aside from how you are as a person



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    #55
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Mod - Quint, you resurrected this train wreck of a thread to make some kind of point, I just have no idea what it is. Make some sense or move along

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #56
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345000#Comment_118345000

    Yet you still cannot find one quote that supports your argument. Clearly trolling.



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    #57
    The Quintessence Model
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    'The world is already hard enough for us. So White Gay Men please don’t use inclusion as an excuse to fetishize us'


    https://medium.com/%40LPP1/dear-white-gay-men-please-stop-fetishizing-black-men-f71e9f9a7f29


    My point is we need more of these campaigns to root out the latent and sometimes blatant racism exhibited in the LGBT community, particularly by white gay men, some of which we've seen in this thread.



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    #58
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,304 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Glad to see the nonsense of American leftists where all this originates finally being called out. To see it done by a black man is especially promising.


    https://youtu.be/c4DxvTIZ3tM?t=180




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    #59
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118345672#Comment_118345672

    So you have to post a screenshot from some random person on Grindr but still can't quote anything from this thread.

    You need to take trolling classes. You're pretty bad at it.



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    #60
    The Quintessence Model
    Registered Users Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118346806#Comment_118346806

    I haven't posted a screen shot. I re-posted the article with a pertinent quote, clearly you've still not read it. Educate yourself, and read it. My post was due to a mod warning.

    Again, clearly there is a big issue with racism in the LGBT community, particularly amongst white gay men. You responses to me suggest you may be a part of the problem. Campaigns such as the one on the OP need to be extended and better highlighted.



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    #61
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118347065#Comment_118347065

    Why did you resurrect an old thread just to troll? Is the Xmas period lonely for you... Saturday nights can be hard for lonely people.



This discussion has been closed.
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