Anti-Racism Campaign launched targeting LGBT+

AllForIt

I am putting this here because I want the view of gay men particularly, though of course anyone can contribute.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/people/arid-40710794.html

A Cork-based charity has launched a new campaign to raise awareness about the racism queer men of colour and Travellers experience from within the LGBTQ+ community. The campaign is funded and supported by the Department of Equality.

Simple question: Does this strike you as something that is warranted or is it something that Roderick O'Gorman is supporting for the sake of giving his department something to do.

I will say for now it's strikes me as ludicrous gay men would be so fussy about who they shag (of all people) and that whatever racism there is that it would be any more prevalent in gay society than in general society. Also it's pretty clear they are talking about gay men here an not lesbians or transgender although they say LGBT+

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213872/anti-racism-campaign-launched-targeting-lgbt

I dont get it. Are you denying that racism exists? or saying its ludicrous that it exists? The campaign isnt referring to lesbians no but it does include trans men - see here

Proud AF - Gay Project

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118055370#Comment_118055370

I find it bizarre that an LGBT+ charity whose remit you would think is to advocate for gay rights is now expanding it's remit to tackle racism. This is akin to Pieta House campaigning to counter petty theft in the travelling community, or BLM campaigning to end gun crime in the black community.

The very idea of focusing an anti-racism campaign on a subset of the wider community is bizarre especially on a protected minority. The only targeted anti-racism campaign I can think of is anti-racism in British football but we all know there is a particular issue in football. Are Gay Project saying there's a particular racism problem in the gay community, because that's the impression they're giving off. Wouldn't you think tackling homophobia in Ireland's Eastern European demographic would be a more apt issue for them to address.

Another odd thing is why would gay people be immune to general anti-racism campaigns - as if gay people live a world that is completely separate from the rest of society? Bizarre view to think that gay people live in some kind of alternative universe of their own.

So is it warranted? Well let's look at what GP have presented as evidence which by the way they said they intentionally went looking for or 'reached out for' as they put it. Here is Brian O'Connell taking to Claire Byrne about this 'month long national campaign' , which includes a giant sized poster of a Bangladeshi man plastered over The George that reads "My name is Pradeep I'm Brown I'm fabulously beautiful and ProudAF (As F*ck). https://twitter.com/JarlathGregory/status/1449005736516800517/photo/1 .What kind of an ego would you have to have to authorize that and what an odd hashtag with a swear word in it. What does it even mean. Anyway...

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22013846/

Pradeep tells of his experience in gay bars, he says people objectify you and don't talk to you. Well blow me down with a feather, who would ever have though this could happen in gay bar of all places. Because usually gay bars are like Cheers the TV sitcom where you walk in the door and the patrons turn round and great you by your name. He says that he's seen Asians refused entry to gay establishments. Well who knew Dublin had such a large Asian gay demographic were he saw this regularly. I've seen white gay men refused entry to the George twice, (straight bouncers btw), for no apparent good reason. Everyone knows The George have an odd admittance policy, clubs often do.

https://twitter.com/GayProjectIRL/status/1450840975430111235

Padree says he been in Dublin for five years and can't find a lover but doesn't the above tweet contradict the claim that Asians/blacks can't find sexual partners. How can he be overlooked and be objectified at the same time. He says also that 'people think he's ugly', and suggests that racism causes people to think brown people are ugly. This is absurd.

GP also say that when gay men say 'no asians' or 'no blacks' (their phrasing) on their Grindr dating profiles that this is blatant racism. This accusation is absurd, people state explicitly what they are looking and not looking for, physically, whether it be bears, chubs, otters, muscular guys, leather guy, skinny guys, twinks etc. Since colour and ethnicity are in fact physical traits then I see no reason to assume racism. Well excuse me/anyone for having a type. You can't win with these people, if you say your into black guys they'll say your fetishizing them, if you say your not into, your racist.

Pradeep also says 'you don't see white Europeans with back or Asian men as friends or lovers'. This is just an outright lie. London is full of interracial gay relationships. On of my longstanding gay friends when I lived in the UK was Asian (rented a room off him in his house actually) and I used to play pool with a British born Pakistani regularly, and that's just off the top of my head. And when I bonked blacks in Brixton where I lived I didn't do it because I had a fetish for black men, but because I fancied him. What should I do now? Bonk an ugly brown man I don't find attractive to be more inclusive. That is basically what GP are saying.

Even with the Bangladesh person they decided to what they call 'platform' they couldn't even show any racism at all. At best they showed some prejudice in relation to the traveller from an anecdotal account and that's about it. Pathetic.

https://twitter.com/BenInLDN/status/1450075496096665608

Well clearly this white guy is only with this black BBC reporter for the big willy.

You can read all the above bullshyte and more here https://gayproject.ie/special-projects/proud-af/

More stuff for their website...

What is intersectionality?

There is an expansive list of identities that make up our beautiful, vibrant LGBTQ community, however, holding certain identities results in increased discrimination, prejudice, and oppression. Intersectionality is an analytic framework that identifies how systems of power impact those who are most marginalised in society. Although they often face the same oppressors, the life of a white, cis-gendered gay man is very different to that of a transgender asylum seeker in the same country. In order for the LGBTQI+ community to achieve collective action for inclusion, it must first acknowledge that Queer men of colour and Queer men who are Travellers experience Ireland differently from those who are white and settled.

Beautiful Vibrant LGBT community. What kind of shyte talk is that when they're telling us we're all racist at the same time. So it's becoming obvious, this is all a load of imported American leftist Critical Race Theory style bullcrap that is being supported and funded by our government. And since when is it okay to refer to gay people collectively as 'Queer'. Cringe.

The thing that bugs me most about this is that they made this a national campaign when they could have done it within the gay community itself.

What I'm going to do now is raise awareness about this Leftist Cork Based NGO and expose exactly what kind of people they are.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213872/anti-racism-campaign-launched-targeting-lgbt

It's not about anti-racism. The charity/quango is just diversifying its portfolio to maximise income. Could well be the charity concerned has seen anti-racism is more lucrative and will transition to being a mainly anti-racism charity with an LGB flavour

Annasopra

This is just a really long winded way of saying that racism in the LGBT+ community in Ireland doesnt exist just because allforit had sex with a few black people in the UK and a UK TV presenter has a white boyfriend. 🙄

AllForIt

EDIT:

@Annasopra

This is just a really long winded way of saying that racism in the LGBT+ community in Ireland doesnt exist just because allforit had sex with a few black people in the UK and a UK TV presenter has a white boyfriend. 🙄

Post edited by Annasopra at 10:06AM

This is really just a short winded way of saying you are not interested in what anyone has to say unless they are an ethnic minority. My experiences, my views, my points don't count, because I'm not an ethnic minority.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118068706#Comment_118068706

I wonder if there is a way to find out more about them, if they have full time employee's, directors etc.

berocca2016

To be honest, the gay (male) community in my experience would objectify most on the basis of looks.... I dont think there is a racism problem in particular in the gay community (well there is some racism, but I would expect it to be proportionate to racism in wider irish community if not less)

Annasopra

Im a settled white Irish person. I havent experienced racism in the LGBT+ community. I know from speaking to a friend who is a Traveller and from reading commentary online that there is a lot of anti traveller racism in the LGBT+ community. I also am willing to listen to what the people in the #ProudAF campaign though. They have spoken about and illustrated their racist experiences. Not sure why people here want to claim their expereiences are irrelevant and non existant.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069375#Comment_118069375

Ok but what is your thoughts based on.

Are you White, Irish and Settled?

Have you ever actually had a discussion with a Black or Minority Ethnic person who is LGBT+ about their experiences of racism in the LGBT+ community.

berocca2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069913#Comment_118069913

I'm not claiming it doesn't exist at all. I wouldn't say that the level of racism within the LGBT community is larger than that of the general populace.

Thus a more efficient use of resources would be national campaigns against racism rather than pigeonholing the LGBT community.

Gay males are very shallow in general and tend to ride around in their cliques, be they bears, twinks, jocks etc. I think this could be the root cause of people's perceptions rather than it being racism.

I do realise I come from a privileged position and I could be wrong. Ireland has problems with racism as a whole and this needs to be nipped in the bud before it becomes a wider issue.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118069955#Comment_118069955

Im asking though how do you know whether its larger than the general populace or not. I also dont really understand why it matters whether its larger in the general populace or not.

I think that position is problematic though of "just tackle racism" rather than tackle racism inside the LGBT+ community alongside tackle racism generally. Its an assumption that everyone experiences the same types of racism which they clearly dont as explained by Bulelani and Darren. Its an assumption that its a way kind of ok for the LGBT+ community to be a little racist/exclusionary because the entire country is. Its not tackling discrimnation where people are targets of multiple forms of discrimination. Its a very narrow way of looking at life because its kind of pigeonholing people into 1 box only when people fit into many boxes.

berocca2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071201#Comment_118071201

Ah here, I did not in any way shape or form say that it's OK for racism in the LGBT community because there's a good bit of racism within Ireland so stop trying to twist my words. I am also not trying to detract from anyone's experience, but the gay male community is built on sub-groups which is a fact, which are not built on racial lines, some people may be racist but the vast majority are not, but bears may still go for only bears etc, not excusing anything but that's the way the gay male community is.

Ireland has a problem with racism in general, therefore if you are going to try to provide affirmative action against this you are best to have a central campaign to tackle a structural problem rather than splinter groups vying for resources and doubling up on work and creating quangos out of quangos.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071823#Comment_118071823

But again this is ignoring the issues around multiple discrimination and ignoring that sexuality based racism is very different from general racism. Its kind of a strange assumption that everyone experiences racism in the exact same way.

The campaign isnt about general racism. It isnt doubling up on any general anti racist work either because of its specific niche. The campaign isnt saying the majority of gay men are racist. I dont think anyone claimed that. It is about racism within the lgbt community which is a specific type of racism as illustrated by Darren, Bulelani, Pradeep, Viola and Delroy.

https://magazine.gcn.ie/articles/220379?article=28-1

I always think its very odd to hear settled white Irish people claim things are not racist when they havent experienced any racism themselves and havent actually ever spoken to Black And Minority Ethnic communities.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118071201#Comment_118071201

A question I asked you in post 3 is is there a particular problem with racism in the gay community? If there is then that could give some validity to this campaign. That's why it matters so hopefully you understand now. Otherwise if it is not, this this is simply a lets target gay male racists campaign.

Your different types of racism argument is just silly because racism could manifest in an infinitude number of ways given the infinite numbers of ways people interact with each other thus it's absurd to attempt to highlight every single manifestation of racism. And besides objectionable and exclusion are hardly unique to the gay demographic so I haven't even heard of any unique racism at all.

But the biggest flaw in your attitude is revealed by this comment:

Its an assumption that its a way kind of ok for the LGBT+ community to be a little racist/exclusionary because the entire country is.

You keep using this misnomer 'community' when in fact the correct term is demographic. Community suggests that 'attitudes' like racism formulate and spread inside that 'community', and that you could somehow get rid of it from 'inside' that community like a virus in a care home. This is completely ridiculous. The gay demographic is not that kind of community. Spending a few hours in The George on Saturday night does not make one absorb all the attitudes of the patrons on that night no more that it would if you spent your Saturday night in a straight nightclub. So to talk of 'racism in the gay community' is in itself absurd which makes this target gay male racists campaign absurd.

Mullaghteelin

I always think its very odd to hear settled white Irish people claim things are not racist when they havent experienced any racism themselves and havent actually ever spoken to Black And Minority Ethnic communities.

I don't think listening to anecdotal accounts give an accurate reflection. Guys being shunned or treated with veiled contempt by other guys is a common enough occurrence. Some of us will feel victimised or mistreated for being too fat, too old, too short, too camp, whatever.

Guys can be cruel to put it bluntly. How it effects us can vary greatly from person to person. For some, it's water off a duck's back, for others its a huge offence.

All of us may have experienced homophobia to greater or lesser degrees. It's very difficult to put us in a situation where we must treat the prejudice experienced by one small group as somehow being much worse than what we commonly experience ourselves.

We are all victims of prejudice, and guilty of prejudice at some stage or another too.

berocca2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072505#Comment_118072505

I also think its a bit much that you make an inference that I have never spoken to anyone from an ethnic minority group.

I also have not claimed racism doesn't exist, but in the majority of cases when you are looking what people are attracted to that it has nothing to do with race, people have certain types, and gay people especially on apps are quite blunt about it.

When people are refused entry to clubs and pubs on the basis of their race, that is ridiculous and the premises should be prosecuted to within the full extent of the law but to assume that being rejected on an app is solely because of race is disingenuous to assume.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072548#Comment_118072548

I think the experiences of Darren, Bulelani, Pradeep, Viola and Delroy do explain some of this racism;

Exclusion, judgement, sexual racism, fetishisation, isolation, discrimination, marginalisation, judgement, intolerance, invisibilisation.

Its actually quite sad that you want to deny that this racism exists.

berocca2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073468#Comment_118073468

Ah here again he didn't deny that racism exists.

What you have described in this post (apart from sexual racism) could equally be applied to a fat person, a twink etc.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072689#Comment_118072689

And again we get a white settled viewpoint refusing to listen to any viewpoints from Black or Minority Ethnic people.

This post is lacking in any real insight

1 Its very dismissive of real life experiences

2 Its an attempt to minimise racism

3 Its whataboutery bringing in homophobia and other things like body shaming

4 It doesnt acknowledge that homophobia and racism intertwined are double forms of discrimination

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118072841#Comment_118072841

I think you are putting words into my mouth

1 I never said you have never spoken to anyone from a minority ethnic group

2 I never said that you said racism doesnt exist

I was making the point that people on here are all coming from a viewpoint that they havent ever experienced the racism themselves and and it appears that they have never spoken to anyone who has experienced it about their experiences of it.

berocca2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073559#Comment_118073559

I get what point you are trying to make. But you cannot tackle this problem without looking at the root causes of the issue.

- the inherent shallowness within the gay male demographic around looks.

- the structural levels of racism within Ireland.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073468#Comment_118073468

What is sad is you have continually ignored every point I made including the main one which is that this is an anti-racism campaign targeted at gay males.

If you think this is fine then where is the anti-homophobia campaign targeting Ireland's West Asian demographic?

And where is the targeted anti-homophobia campaign targeting Ireland's Jamaican community?

And where is the targeted anti-homophobia campaign targeting Ireland's African community?

And where is the targeted anti-homophobia campaign targeting Ireland's Eastern European community?

Will we be seeing these coming from Gay Project in the near future?

Or is it there policy to only target white Irish people?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118073896#Comment_118073896

I think this campaign can compliment both

berocca2016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074819#Comment_118074819

If you then look at this completely race agnosticly, do you think that it is OK to reject someone because you don't fancy then?

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074386#Comment_118074386

Where does the campaign say it is targeted at either white people or Irish people?

It says it's targeted at the wider LGBTQ community in Ireland.

You do realize there are non white and non Irish people within that community?

The issue with the campaigns you are suggesting is that they would not come from a Group within that community.

hawley

There shouldn't be any racism within the LGBT community. It was difficult to read about their experiences of racism. It's a problem across all society, but it needs to be called out.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118075958#Comment_118075958

Eh, it's not targeted at 'wider' anything, it's targeted at the narrow gay white demographic. You can nitpick over Irish or White English or White America all you like but that does not make it OK.

edit: and to narrow it even further it's targeted at males only as well if you didn't know.

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076050#Comment_118076050

It's targeted at the wider gay community. Doesn't say anything about being white. I never said anything about America or English. No idea what you're on about.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076061#Comment_118076061

Don't make me laugh.

Of course they doesn't explicitly say they are targeting white people no more than the BLM protest explicitly says so either.

Do you not realize that this campaign coincides with Black History Month which is all about racism and white supremacy and all that, and here you are telling me this campaign has noting to do with targeting white people as if I'm jumping to conclusions.

And it's not technically correct to say it's targeting the gay community either because that would include women, but they don't include women as it's targeted at gay males only*. They explicitly state so on their website. Noting 'wider' about that either.

edit*: okay okay, since you are going to nitpick they don't say gay males they say GBT+ which is gay males and trans males as well.

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076191#Comment_118076191

Well I'm a bit confused by your position. You claimed your issue with this is that it's not needed as there are already anti-racism campaigns in place and one targeted at gay community is not needed.

However now you are saying your issue is that in your opinion having an anti-racism campaign AT ALL is implicitly targeting white people.

So really you are not ok with anti-racism campaigns in general as they all (in your opinion) implicitly Target white people.

So why do you say this is not needed due to there being general anto-racism campaigns when you don't even approve of general anto-racism campaigns?

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076217#Comment_118076217

Well I'm a bit confused by your position. You claimed your issue with this is that it's not needed as there are already anti-racism campaigns in place and one targeted at gay community is not needed.

No. My primary problem with this is targeting an anti-racism campaign on a tiny 1.5% of the overall population. It's just plain wrong.

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076461#Comment_118076461

Every little helps. I think it's plain right.

Annasopra

Its very odd to turn this all into victimhood for cis white gay males 🙄

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118074955#Comment_118074955

Yes. If you are not attracted to someone of course its ok to say so. If you are openly saying on your profiles no Asians I think thats very different and I consider it racist.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118076015#Comment_118076015

I think the point of this campaign is that its a different form of racism and can be overtly sexualised or very exclusionary and also that Black or Minority Ethnic LGBT+ people can face racism/bigotry in LGBT+ places/spaces and then homophobia/transphobia in other places/spaces e.g. within minority ethnic communities such as Travelling community or indeed in direct provision. So this campaign is actually not just about racism at all.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077498#Comment_118077498

So this campaign is actually not just about racism at all.

It essentially is. You mentioned 'sexual racism'. I looked it up and the explanation of it is that black objectification is a consequences of racism, not just some sexual fetish. So if an Indian guy had a sexual fetish for white guys, that wouldn't considered sexual racism because of course the Indian guy couldn't possibly be racist towards the white guy only the other way around. So there won't ever be any campaigns to highlight the objections of white men in India any times soon, or ever.

https://academic.oup.com/jcmc/article/26/3/129/6262058

There are a number of similar study's as that one, many of them mentioning Grindr, the well know 'hook up app' where as you know gay men make it clear what they are looking physically and commonly state are looking for a one off sexual encounter.

So as far as I can see the only evidence they have of sexual racism is what gay men say on the Grindr dating app where they say they've seen people say no asians, no blacks. It must be 20 years since I've ever seen anyone see those things said on a dating app. Gaydar probably in dial-up days. It just isn't common at all unless maybe in places like Australia where I happen to know white Asians have a big thing for white western men!

So clearly the reason those study's focus on Grindr is because there is no equivalent in the hetro world. Because men can be frank with other men in a way men cannot be with women on hetro dating apps. And of course they are using this gay sourced evidence as an indicator of something that is prevalent outside of the gay world. Weak AF evidence.

But yea, we do get the 'Intersectioniality' thing, meaning that one is of more than one 'minority' demographic. Its' a term coined in the states by Critical Race Theorists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberlé_Williams_Crenshaw which gives strong clues as to what kind of people run the Gay Project.

What difference it makes to anything I really don't know unless we're meant to feel doubly, trebly, or even perhaps quadruply sorry for them. But you know what, it's obviously just another angle to talk about racism and the big bad white patriarchy 24/7.

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118077877#Comment_118077877

It essentially is. You mentioned 'sexual racism'. I looked it up and the explanation of it is that black objectification is a consequences of racism, not just some sexual fetish. So if an Indian guy had a sexual fetish for white guys, that wouldn't considered sexual racism because of course the Indian guy couldn't possibly be racist towards the white guy only the other way around. So there won't ever be any campaigns to highlight the objections of white men in India any times soon, or ever.

As a white guy on Grindr quite a lot, I don't think I've ever been fetishised for being white. Not even once.

Every single black guy I've ever met in Dublin is inundated with messages about BBC.

If you go on Grindr in Dublin as a black person your experience will be heavily about your race. That's not the same for white people no matter how much you pretend that the generic preference for white guys is the exact same thing.

So as far as I can see the only evidence they have of sexual racism is what gay men say on the Grindr dating app where they say they've seen people say no asians, no blacks. It must be 20 years since I've ever seen anyone see those things said on a dating app. Gaydar probably in dial-up days. It just isn't common at all unless maybe in places like Australia where I happen to know white Asians have a big thing for white western men!

It's true you don't see it much anymore. It's no longer socially acceptable to write it. Doesn't mean the racism behind it has improved. I had an Asian friend in Dublin (who has now left) that was constantly told when he was being rejected in a club "I'm not into Asians". I'm not talking once or twice. It was consistent and very upsetting for him. Nobody has ever once mentioned my race when rejecting me. Why is that?

So clearly the reason those study's focus on Grindr is because there is no equivalent in the hetro world. Because men can be frank with other men in a way men cannot be with women on hetro dating apps. And of course they are using this gay sourced evidence as an indicator of something that is prevalent outside of the gay world. Weak AF evidence.

From the study:

"Yet, discrimination on same-sex dating apps remains insufficiently researched, as noted by...This study hence focuses on same-sex attracted men, which includes gay and bisexual men."

The study is pretty clear that it's focus and implications are for same sex dating apps. You are inventing that they are using a study on Grindr to draw conclusions outside of the gay world.

You're also compeltely contradicting yourself again. You state you have a problem with drawing conclusions about racism in general from evidence of racism in the gay community (even though that's not what the study is doing but let's pretend for the sake of argument it is). However you also think racism can only be tackled in a general population wide approach not focussing on specific communities. But you can't have it both ways.

Annasopra

At this stage I havent a clue what the point of this thread is really. It seems like the main point is to harangue an ngo for daring to highlight racism and a strange inference that settled cis white gay men are opressed by human rights campaigners.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118078096#Comment_118078096

As a white guy on Grindr quite a lot, I don't think I've ever been fetishised for being white. Not even once.Every single black guy I've ever met in Dublin is inundated with messages about BBC.If you go on Grindr in Dublin as a black person your experience will be heavily about your race. That's not the same for white people no matter how much you pretend that the generic preference for white guys is the exact same thing.

Well of course you didn't because Dublin's gay scene is hardly 1% BAME. You seem to know them all. Do you have a 'thing' for them lol. Which if so is totally fine. In any case I never denied racism exists.

True story; There's a gay bar in London for Asians and their admirers, I would to go there with my white British Asian friend of Hong Kong heritage. He pointed out to me a very handsome guy, 6'2", tall and very fit guy named Pierce who was a regular there, because all the Asians guys were after him. I'd see him often in the nightclub regularly since shadowed by a edit: group of Asians following on behind him wherever he went like a duck and it's goslings following on behind. So funny. One of the more peculiar things I ever saw on the gay scene. Oh, and critical point is they were all very short, and Pierce was very tall, so clear case of sexual objectification there for his physical attributes, if not for his manhood.

It's true you don't see it much anymore. It's no longer socially acceptable to write it. Doesn't mean the racism behind it has improved. I had an Asian friend in Dublin (who has now left) that was constantly told when he was being rejected in a club "I'm not into Asians". I'm not talking once or twice. It was consistent and very upsetting for him. Nobody has ever once mentioned my race when rejecting me. Why is that?

No that's not right. People have cottoned on that saying what your 'not' looking is not a good strategy because it's looks negative and a waste of text viewers don't want to read. Better to say what you are looking for. You have to look at it like writing your CV in terms of the impression it makes as well. Does't mean it had racist intent at all. So you know lots of Asians as well now. If someone was coming on to me I wouldn't say anything no matter who they were (unless they were making a pass), I'd just ignore them till they get the message. I think that's the standard way of getting the message across. Bit sceptical about all your reports to be honest. My reports as the one above about Pierce have context and thus believable.

"Yet, discrimination on same-sex dating apps remains insufficiently researched, as noted by...This study hence focuses on same-sex attracted men, which includes gay and bisexual men."

The study is pretty clear that it's focus and implications are for same sex dating apps. You are inventing that they are using a study on Grindr to draw conclusions outside of the gay world

So...are you inferring here that white hetro men don't objectify black women? But they objectify white women all the time, as we hear of regularly these days?. Hmm. All I am saying is there is really noting unique going on in the gay scene that doesn't happen the other way around somewhere in the world. A reminder that most gay social 'scenes' only exist in Western type countries. When Bangladesh opens it's first gay nightclub I might go visit, I'm sure I'd be really popular with the locals.

You're also compeltely contradicting yourself again. You state you have a problem with drawing conclusions about racism in general from evidence of racism in the gay community (even though that's not what the study is doing but let's pretend for the sake of argument it is). However you also think racism can only be tackled in a general population wide approach not focussing on specific communities. But you can't have it both ways.

I had no idea what you were talking about last time you said I was contradicting myself nor this time either. I'm happy for you to continue to believe I'm contradicting myself because I believe you are just nitpicking and being argumentative for the sake of it. You believe the campaign is warranted. Okay fine.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080895#Comment_118080895

It's to 'raise awareness' about the activities of NGO's

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081812#Comment_118081812

Well of course you didn't because Dublin's gay scene is hardly 1% BAME. You seem to know them all. Do you have a 'thing' for them lol. Which if so is totally fine. In any case I never denied racism exists.

Firstly I need to point out how bizarrely you interpret the things I say. I said "every black guy I've met in Dublin". That could be 2, it could be 10, it could be 50 for all you know. Yet you interpret this as me "knowing them all". How insane is that. You continue it below with Asian guys where I said ONE individual. It seems with any race you basically treat them as one individual. Me knowing even ONE individual of another race is seen by you as knowing every member of that race. It explains a lot about your posts and how you see people of other races.

True story; There's a gay bar in London for Asians and their admirers, I would to go there with my white British Asian friend of Hong Kong heritage. He pointed out to me a very handsome guy, 6'2", tall and very fit guy named Pierce who was a regular there, because all the Asians guys were after him. I'd see him often in the nightclub regularly since shadowed by a edit: group of Asians following on behind him wherever he went like a duck and it's goslings following on behind. So funny. One of the more peculiar things I ever saw on the gay scene. Oh, and critical point is they were all very short, and Pierce was very tall, so clear case of sexual objectification there for his physical attributes, if not for his manhood.

Aren't you white? Were they "following you around"? Did they make sexual comments about your whiteness to you? Surely if this guy was being fetishised for his whiteness you would have been subjected to the same.

No that's not right. People have cottoned on that saying what your 'not' looking is not a good strategy because it's looks negative and a waste of text viewers don't want to read. Better to say what you are looking for. You have to look at it like writing your CV in terms of the impression it makes as well. Does't mean it had racist intent at all. So you know lots of Asians as well now. If someone was coming on to me I wouldn't say anything no matter who they were (unless they were making a pass), I'd just ignore them till they get the message. I think that's the standard way of getting the message across. Bit sceptical about all your reports to be honest. My reports as the one above about Pierce have context and thus believable.

So when I tell an anecdote it's fictional but according to you yours is believable.....you really do live in a fantasy world.

By the way I have discussed the experiences of that friend before on the trans thread. If I was making it up I would have come up with an example of a trans friend not an Asian friend.

I assume that since instead of claiming it's not racist to tell someone you're rejecting them based on their race you're claiking I made it up you do consider it to be racist.

So racism does happen on the gay scene in Ireland.

So...are you inferring here that white hetro men don't objectify black women? But they objectify white women all the time, as we hear of regularly these days?. Hmm. All I am saying is there is really noting unique going on in the gay scene that doesn't happen the other way around somewhere in the world. A reminder that most gay social 'scenes' only exist in Western type countries.

Where are you getting that nonsense I neither inferred or implied anything of the sort. You made a claim about what the study was concluding. I refuted that claim. I never said anything about straight people, white or otherwise. But this is classic Allforit. Instead of dealing with what I actually said, use any tactic to deflect discussion into a topic you're more comfortable with.

When Bangladesh opens it's first gay nightclub I might go visit, I'm sure I'd be really popular with the locals

I seriously doubt it. You're clearly no Philip.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118082547#Comment_118082547

It explains a lot about your posts and how you see people of other races.

Finally I got you to say it. You could have just said that from the very beginning, it would have saved us this back and forth. It's not like you were ever going to agree with a single word of what I said in post 3 as you instantly concluded my motivation for starting this thread in the first place is because I'm racist.

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118085083#Comment_118085083

I was open to your opinions until you claimed that because I have met some black gay guys in Dublin that I "know them all".

You seem to view other races as one big identical individual. If you don't want people to conclude these things about you then don't post stuff that suggests it.

So next time someone tells you about the experience of ONE Asian friend maybe don't respond "oh you seem to know a lot of them".

LLMMLL

It's also worth pointing out that because I have slept with some black guys you portray it as a fetish asking me "do you have a thing for them".

As if someone couldn't possibly find a black person attractive as an individual and could only see their race.

Would you ask someone who has slept with a few white guys if they have a white fetish?

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087377#Comment_118087377

The fetishizing of gay black men is well known about. Stop doing it. Do better.

https://medium.com/@LPP1/dear-white-gay-men-please-stop-fetishizing-black-men-f71e9f9a7f29

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118343984#Comment_118343984

You're doubling down on your argument that anyone who has slept with a black person is fetishising them?

Can someone not find an individual black person attractive then?

That's a bit racist.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344354#Comment_118344354

I'm not doubling down on anything. Try listening to minorities within the community instead of simply viewing them as objects for your own sexual gratification. Did you even read the article posted? Do better llmmll, do better.

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344370#Comment_118344370

Can you quote where I view a minority as being for my sexual gratification?

An actual quote, not some crazy interpretation of what I said.

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118344376#Comment_118344376

So you didn't read the article then. This is exactly why these anti-racism are needed, and there should be more of them to root out the rampant racism exhibited in the LGBT community.

JupiterKid

This thread is a joke. Virtue-signalling and looking to be deeply offended on behalf of others, as per usual...

Apparently if you are LGBT and you don't have a sexual preference for non-white people, you are a racist.

But then again, if you find black men hot and attractive, you are ALSO a racist for "fetishising" them... 😏🤔😒

This attempt to collectively guilt a minority (LGBT ostensibly, but it's clear it's white gay Irish men who are being targeted here) into a perceived shame over alleged racism is utterly disingenuous and pathetic.

Why not tackle the broader issue of racism in Ireland as a whole? Why attack a minority who have faced historical oppression ourselves?

For what it's worth, us Irish have done pretty well in accommodating racial minorities into our country compared to many others. Yes there are issues with race here - but tell me where in the world where there is not.

Perfect example of those looking for offence where none really exists and to point fingers and blame others in order to validate their own deep-seated insecurities and guilt.