Gen Z will never work a day in their lives.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045206#Comment_118045206

From another thread:

"This is grown men, now. You’d have to say that if they spent less time playing computer games and getting angry about children’s “stories” online they might be happier overall."

Sounds like more than a concern to me. The same can be said of those who spend every spare minute talking about soccer football. Grown men getting upset their favorite millionaire didn't kick the ball right. We'll just ignore that most people playing online play with millions across the globe. No, they should be down their local pub, drinking poison and giving out about everything, because that's what "normal" people do.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045335#Comment_118045335

That was regarding grown men having a “conniption” over comic books and kid’s cartoons and there is, most definitely, concern in there.

Not sure why you’re bringing soccer into this. Especially considering that the pubs in Ireland had seen fewer, and fewer, men watching live soccer in them due to a mass exodus of Manchester United fans’ support. A lot just stopped “following” them while others started supporting League of Ireland teams, mostly Bohs and Shamrock Rovers. Very fickle, if you ask me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045335#Comment_118045335

To be fair, if they're spending their time playing computer games, then they're not on social media, and so, not on the receiving end of most of the opinions about the woke movements. Seems a plus to me. Engaging with the "real"world is overrated anyway.. and misleading considering how little people actually spend with others in modern society, unless they're married or in a relationship.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045479#Comment_118045479

I live close to Wembley stadium and having seen some of what the sort of human trash that infests soccer games over here gets up to, the world would be a superior place if they'd stay home and play computer games instead of drinking, wreaking havoc and committing acts of racist abuse against their own players.

mariaalice

Turning it around a bit, it is possible to take the view that isn't it great that people can be themselves, read comics in their 30s if they want, or be a woman with 3 children who maker her 'living' as a clown and holistic therapist.

It is a bit self-absorbed maybe.

The vast majority dont live like that though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045720#Comment_118045720

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kWx2h9aF4Q

So you're saying it's not possible to be a married gay dad clown.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045670#Comment_118045670

Wouldn’t condone any of that. Haven’t been to a soccer game in over 20 years at this stage.

Go to a few rugby matches alright but you don’t see anything like that at them. Fans are mixed and still no anti-social behaviour.

dublinman1990

I would make the point that enlightened people in my own generation really shouldn't give two f*cking fiddlers about what the ignorant ones should be saying to then to make themselves feel happy.

Everyone of any age group in this modern world today has to deal with keeping up with their own priorities in life as well as spending it on leisure. They should not be dwelling with the relentless bs out there that they should out of the house focusing on doing one thing with most of the 'lads' when compared to the other in order to increase other people's egos.

That does have a effect of creating damage among individuals who don't want to take part or join in these activities. The great thing about that in today's world is that you're not meant to be forced to take part in it if you have other things to be doing to make your life more stable.

If other people do understand that way of life. That is absolutely fine. OTOH Rudeness or ignorance/aggressive behaviour can & will it make that dynamic in their personal lives become much worse if people are not able to make compromises for themselves.

Potential-Monke

Fair enough Emmet, but you're still giving out about people have (sometimes, imo, over emotional) reactions to something they thoroughly enjoy and are a part of. I wonder how many Man U fans would be completely ok if they changed their kit to bright pink and yellow for good. Plenty would give out. Actually, it wouldn't happen, because Man U love money, and they would lose it. But you get my point.

Each to their own and all that! I hope I never stop playing game, watching anime and generally being who I really enjoy being, which is so different to the majority.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045140#Comment_118045140

Not "worried" per se but when someone who has been civil and articulate over a long period of time politely raises a general concern to me about me - I will take it seriously at least long enough to see if the concern is warranted. I suspect it isn't. But I will give it due consideration all the same.

From reading Emmets posts here and in the past I am not sure you have represented them accurately. I do not think - nor do I think Emmet thinks - that there is anything at all wrong with playing computer games. I play them myself on occasion. I likely still will when I am 80.

Not often as I buy 1 maybe 2 a year. But I binge them and play them to 100% completion when I do. Which involves anything from 40 to 80 hours of my life. I also binge watch D.C. television shows. I think anyone would be hard pushed to suggest I am a child however. If they knew anything else about me. They are welcome to try.

But there does seem to be an issue with depression, lack of well being, confusion, disenfranchisement, loss of direction, issues socialising with others and the opposite sex in particular, and just general discipline in some people, young men in particular. There is a reason Jordan Peterson to name one found a career in that demographic. And it is certainly not off kilter to explore the question of whether too much computer gaming is a factor in that.

But that is not really limited to computer gaming. Investing time in anything to the detriment of other parts of our lives has the potential to cause such issues. To refer to the post from Alberta just above mine - if someone genuinely is happy by investing absolutely all of their time in something like gaming or anything else they love - that is great! Really. From reading your own posts on other threads it sounds like you may in fact even be one of those people. This too is great and the people who in other threads gave you a hard time for your life choices - are just projecting at best.

But I suspect people genuinely happy to give their entire life over to something like that are the exception not the rule. I am no social scientist so I am as prone to anecdote as the next person. But I certainly see a hunger to do new and other things in the "problem" kids I have been working with and with the friends of my own children.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045814#Comment_118045814

It's just odd that people seem to fixate on men who stay indoors playing games minding their own business and yet this sort of toxic lad football culture only gets briefly mentioned when they do something particularly egregious and then it's back to being ignored.

As someone who's an introvert and living in a city I know is going to push me out someday, I get the whole staying indoors playing games thing. To be clear, I do not advocate it but I get it. I think previous generations had their own vices and this sort of intense gaming is today's equivalent. Add in technology platforms designed to addict users and it makes sense that this is a growing phenomenon.

To me, at least, it feels like there is less and less reason to try anymore. I've spent the past half decade trying to decide on what change of career I want. If I got a 10% pay rise tomorrow, it would barely benefit me at all. Property prices are a joke and I can't afford to rent my own place so what exactly is the point in trying to be better. In South Korea, they call this "f*ck it money". I'm 34 with a good job by the way but I completely understand the frustrations many of the next generation are experiencing.

To reiterate, I do not advocate laziness, self-pity or apathy but if people are serious about implementing fixes, they need to understand what the problem is. There's no point in doing more than the minimum if the rewards aren't there and this is increasingly being shown to be the case.

I think in moments of self doubt when I wonder why I try to be better or invest effort - looking at the world around me tends only to make it worse. Like you I see very little in the world around me that motivates me to really try or want to try. I think that is the cynicism and world weariness Emmet questioned about me yesterday as to what I meant by it. I can certainly relate to the feeling of looking around at the world and feeling "Why would I even bother?".

Generally when I try to better myself I am doing it for nothing and nobody other than myself. And that - for me at least - has been motivation enough. I can not project that outwards however and assume that would work for everybody if only they would adopt my world view. Which is unfortunately what many people who find themselves in a good place do say. They think everyone else can be happy and motivated too - if only they acted/thought like they do.

But for me I think I realised one day that I am entirely trapped in this body and mind. It's all I get for the course of my life. So I might as well just find out what it is ultimately capable of. And the project of each day pushing my body and mind that tiny bit further than before - seeing and pushing the limits of how my body can move or balance or strike or what it can achieve - and similar for my mind - is motivation in life enough for me.

And I am no towering intellect or physical Olympian. At all. I never will be - it is just not the DNA hand I have been dealt alas. But I would much prefer living a life where I milk the DNA i have been dealt to the limits of what it is capable of - than be dealt a hand of natural talent and let it fester or waste.

And I think I bring that philosophy to my parenting too. I would much prefer have a child who gets all "Ds" academically and know that that was genuinely the best the child could do because they really tried - than I would prefer to have a child getting all "Bs" but winged it and we know they could have done better but they did not engage in their potential. I do not pressure them to be the best in the class or sport or pursuit - as many parents do - but just to be the best them they can be. And joy and happiness and well being can even be found in my/their failures as well as their successes when taking that approach. Without the need for "participation trophies" and the like :)

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035000#Comment_118035000

Post of the day.

In your 20s you are an ass who thinks they know everything. You think anyone older than you just hasnt a clue and you do. You think no way will you ever be like the old farts in there 40s and 50s.

In your 30s you are still an ass and think you know everything, but you are slowly realizing that those older than you might have a thing or two to say to you that is sound advice.

In your 40s you look back and think you were young and naive in your 30s and god know what kind of idiot you were in your 20s, because you cant believe how bad you were. You still havent realized how wize those older than you actually are but you are beginning to suspect it.

In your 50s you start to think, oh, the young are just young and those older than you are actually wise and have been through way more than you ever will be. Total respect for them and total disregard of the opinion of anyone under 30 and couldnt be bothered trying to help them out because they just cant take it. Though you will listen to people over 30 in case you can help.

I'll let you know when im approaching 60s :)

But peoiple in their 60s seem to me to be much more mellowed out than younger and couldnt give 2 fcuks about what anyone else wants to do or how high the younger generations opinions of themselves are. They would more just roll their eyes to heaven than point out to a person in their 20s or 30s how young and naive they really are. They are happy to be asked for opinions and advice from those in their 40s and 50s though.

Now there are exceptions. There are some people who are mature beyond their years and also some who are dumb no matter what age they are.

Also every generation for some reason things the ones who can before them somehow had an easier life than them. That is just so not true.

mariaalice

It depends on what is the motivation is, it does matter because if it is an issue for society such as the person needing mental health support or welfare or other supports.

So basically go for any alternative ways of living as long as it does not affect mental health or they need welfare to support their lifestyle choices.

^ My mum used to say "Kids around 18 think their parents know nothing - kids around 22 think their parents must have suddenly learned a lot in the last 4 years" :)

I guess youth might be the biological manifestation of the (contested) Dunning-Kruger effect. Which is the hypothesis in cognitive psychology that the less a person knows about something (in terms of the young, that something being life itself) the more that person is likely to overestimate their knowledge and competence about that something.

Christopher Hitchens rephrased it well once when he defined "education" or "being educated" in a given field as that moment where you have finally learned enough to realise just how much you still do not know about it and have yet to learn. Once you hit that point in a field he said you could start to call yourself "educated".

Charles Darwin also said similar when he said “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge”

_Brian

My daughter is 19, started in her job at 15.

in her first year at college, comes home Friday evenings. Works 9-6 Saturday and 9-1 Sunday, back to college Sunday evening.

this thread is just whinging because maybe younger people are having more fun than OP.

I'm 50/50 on whether or not social media is a positive or a curse. I'm increasingly going towards the curse side. I'm glad I'm not a teenager growing up with all this technology, they have it hard in certain ways but then every generation has their own issues.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046771#Comment_118046771

That is the average mine were like that and both have jobs of the 'normal' variety as adults same with all their cousins and friends. I think the op might work in a media or journalism type area and is possibly coming across an amount of the, I want to live by my art or spend my time drawing comics or spent my time gaming.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046720#Comment_118046720

...but what if the only options a person have available to them is seek employment that may not truly financially benefit them, and may in fact have negative effects on them mentally, or the dole?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118034475#Comment_118034475

Not sure if you use twitter but anything that your followers like shows up in your thread so I see some amount of shite I'd rather not see.

Pussyhands

I'd wonder about future generations. I flick the age setting down to 18+ on tinder for the look the odd time. Nothing but half naked birds sitting on floors taking selfies. Links to only fans in about 10% of them. You'd see less skin walking through the red light district. I'd hate to have a daughter knowing they'd potentially be brainwashed by social media into being a hoe.

Sleepy

I'm right at the tail-end of Gen-X (born August 1980) and my own kids are Gen Z. If their generation don't work a day in their lives, it won't be out of a lack of interest in work (or more accurately, the reward for that work): it'll because my generation, and those before mine have destroyed the global economy.

landofthetree

In southern Europe at least 30% of them will never have a full time job in their lives.

https://www.ft.com/content/7fb1a0e6-9f0d-11e9-9c06-a4640c9feebb

" Mario Sancataldo, a 25-year-old from the Sicilian town of Bagheria, said he had never had a proper job. Since gaining his high school diploma in hospitality management seven years ago he has not earned more than €500 a month; at present he is unemployed and lives with his grandmother."

" Sasha Taormina is struggling to make a living. “The job market is dead,” she said. “It is almost impossible to be economically independent here, especially if you are young and you are a woman. I think I will have to leave eventually if I want to find a real job.” The 32-year-old, who has a master’s degree, occasionally picks up casual work as a waitress and distributes flyers, earning about €300 a month".

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047353#Comment_118047353

You can't really judge a whole demographic this way. I know someone in London who voted for Brexit because she thought there were too many Indians in the UK but I don't think that all old people are racist, deranged morons.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046594#Comment_118046594

As TaxAHCruel said, it’s not about playing computer games, it’s people, usually men, who stay in 24/7 playing them, watching “questionable content” and angrily ranting online about WOKE (all caps) stuff.

If someone was staying in watching soccer all day, and doing the other things, I would view that in much that same way. As unhealthy and worrying. And it would the latter “engagements” that would be the issue.

Looking back maybe I should have PM’d TaxAH instead of posting on the thread but I thought that might be “weird”. He posted and I replied with something I felt I’d noticed of late. There are certain posters on this site who’s names I’d recognise and would be interested in what they are saying. You’d have your, Wibbs, TaxAH, Abominable Dr Phibes, Leg End Reject, Tyrant (now gone), Dial Hard, Quantum Erasure, Brendan Bendar, Fever Dream, Annaspora, Nevin Parsnip and your good self, to name but a few.

Wouldn’t always agree with these users but would still want to hear them out. I may well have “overstepped” with TaxAH but it was meant as an observation as opposed to an attack.

Which is indeed how it was taken I would hasten to add. And grateful I am for it too.

Also given how weird some of my unsolicited PMs get - you would be hard pushed to send me one I would consider weird. :) This is an observation not a challenge :p

Well if “everyone” is making money sitting on their asses posting sh1te on social media, who is actually to do useful work, (like being a chef, a nurse, a cleaner etc) that is needed to run society? There’s gotta be a point where the market gets saturated with sh1te, and little more to be made out of it.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047908#Comment_118047908

more or less Graeber's point

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047731#Comment_118047731

I get what you're saying. My point was that people who are staying inside all the time probably span generations. It's probably why most soaps exist and why RTE has to import so many from Australia.

As regards the surfeit of ranting and raving online, there's plenty of anti-vaxx, science denial and fascism to go along with the "woke" stuff, whatever that is. The general point of moderating one's time online, if not abstaining from social media altogether holds though.

I find the whole making friends thing incredibly grim, frankly. I'm friendly with a housemate and have friends scattered across the UK and Ireland. Everyone's already settled into their social lives so making progress is a lot harder than at school or University. Don't even start me on dating. I don't approve of the government banning things as a rule but if they went for Tinder, Bumble, etc I wouldn't exactly be rushing to government buildings to protest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047731#Comment_118047731

As TaxAHCruel said, it’s not about playing computer games, it’s people, usually men, who stay in 24/7 playing them, watching “questionable content” and angrily ranting online about WOKE (all caps) stuff.

Ahh well, when you're talking about people playing computer games, the majority are going to be male. However, replace computer games with TV shows, and one could apply the above quote to women... including the questionable content, except they're promoting/ranting in favor of the woke stuff. It's hardly any surprise to anyone that a lot of this woke nonsense was born out of the more "extremist" attitudes in feminism, and those who got their start in the social sciences.

The funny thing is that the gaming community used to be a rather positive place, absent most of the sexism, or divisive attitudes that were present in other parts of society. It took the woke warriors coming in, calling the consumer base toxic, and demanding representation for everything under the sun, while continuing to complain when things changed to match their views.... all of that changed the gaming community, because of the pressure placed on game developers, and the range of media outlets that suddenly started posting bile about gender and race. https://kotaku.com/ being a prime example of the pure drivel that has been produced just to drive gamers nuts.

The thing is that most gamers wouldn't normally be interested in ranting online about gender, sexuality, or whatever. They'd be interested in ranting about graphics cards, loot boxes, etc instead... but the environment has been forcibly changed for them, and the media outlets along with some game developers have ensured that it's difficult to avoid this woke nonsense unless you stick to playing singleplayer games on your PC. Most online gaming has introduced a wide range of moderating "guidelines" seeking to promote the woke beliefs, all the while favoring one group over another.

The sad truth is that these male gamers are changing to match the environment they spend their time in. It wasn't their choice, but something pushed on them because activists saw men/boys enjoying something and needed to cast their judgement over it all, which is why cries against gender stereotypes in gaming, objectification of women, etc all became incredibly important issues that gamers needed to know about... and as such, they would rant about the drop in quality of gaming that has happened as a result. The investment that game developers need to put into researching this woke crap to avoid offending people is taken away from the funding allocated to the actual game development... and that is worth ranting over.

Oh, and no, the all caps ranting is the area of teenagers and idiots. Most gaming forums ban people who post in Caps, and rightly so. Just as the use of caps in gaming chats tends to be strictly moderated, even before this woke crap was introduced into the gaming sphere.

Lastly, there are many female gamers out there. I used men above because of your quote, but you'll find many female gamers online talking about all this crap too. Especially among the Asian communities in the US or elsewhere. Again, most people just wanted to game without any of this woke crap being pushed on them.. because gaming was a way of escapism from the pressures of their own lives.. but that's been taken away from them, and yes, they're right to rant about it, if they wish to do so.