Should we in Ireland be concerned about Jihad?

Relax brah

We are seeing a lot of terror attacks now across Europe. I am amazed that we have yet to see the same on in Ireland (thankfully!)

Islam is a peaceful religion at its core and islamphobia is equally something we need to consider through education, awareness and community work.

However, there a still big challenges in the Middle East which is absolutely contributing to the global unrest of extremists.

Is this something we should be concerned about in Ireland?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213408/should-we-in-ireland-be-concerned-about-jihad

yes we should be worried, and i suggest you look up the islamic definition of universal peace too

I would say at its core, Islam was founded by a desert warlord, who united the arabian tribes, whose successors conquered Eastern Rome and Persia within a generation, and then had to sit down and codify a religion based on conquest(and justifying the conquest and slavery and pillaging) and domain over millions of non-believers. It worked pretty well for them

Parachutes

It’s not a peaceful religion by any stretch of the imagination. The more immigrants we take from Muslim majority countries the higher the chance will go up.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028324#Comment_118028324

Islam just like Christianity and other religious is peaceful, unfortunately some will twist the words of that religion to suit thier narrative and do shìtty things. This is not something exclusive to one religion it is a common theme for all religions throughout history.

Parachutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028385#Comment_118028385

When was the last time you saw a Christian blow up a stadium full of kids in the name of Jesus.

Yawn.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028385#Comment_118028385

its very hard to twist the gospels in that way.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028399#Comment_118028399

The crusades, Salem witch trials and the Spanish inquisition say differently. It's happened throughout history where a minority of any religion will twist the words of their holy books to suit thier narratives.

I'm not excusing the actions of any perpetrators of these horrible crimes I'm just pointing out that some people are easily led by people who will coerce them.into doing these things.

Housefree

If I was a middle eastern Muslim living in Ireland, watching US war planes stopping in Shannon on the way to blow up some poor village in the middle east, I might be tempted to do something. Footage of drone strikes taking out wedding parties and the aftermath would surely infuriate me.

As an Irish person I can totally get where they are coming from. Surprised it hasn't happened yet, with our tacit support of the US we deserve to be high on any hitlist

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028395#Comment_118028395

Christian militias committed shocking atrocities in refugee camps (Shatila and Sabra) killing around about 2000 .

Yawn.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028500#Comment_118028500

be infuriated all they like. It does not excuse attacks in europe or Ireland. USA for all its faults acts like a boy scout compared to Islamic armies throughout history

Housefree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028515#Comment_118028515

You know the US is the only country that has used nuclear weapons against a civilian population, you have a strange definition of 'acts like a boy scout'

They also killed half a million children in Iraq with sanctions

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028500#Comment_118028500

So you might be tempted to kill and maim civilians because of violent injustice?

well then I could use the same logic to use your violence as a reason to kill and maim your people. There’s no end to that, and all perfectly justified hey.

there are no excuses, and there should be no tolerance or justification of terror attacks anywhere.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028515#Comment_118028515

Mai lai massacre anyone?

Parachutes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028510#Comment_118028510

One specific example vs the hundreds of Islamic terrorist attacks since the year 2000 even, must try harder.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028395#Comment_118028395

When was the last time you saw a Muslim do that? If it’s something that was happening regularly, I’d agree there might be something to be concerned about, but of the 2Bn Muslims there are in the world, and one fcukwit takes a notion to blow up a stadium full of kids? That’s not the responsibility of a religion, it’s the responsibility of that one fcukwit.

Think about it like the way people always look to rationalise the behaviour of fcukwits who do that ****. It’s always attributed to the thing which they find objectionable, whether it’s video nasties, Catholicism, ill mental health, etc, and Islam is just another excuse that’s as handy as any. Hell the latest excuse is lads committing murder and taking people out being attributed to the idea that they get no attention from women! Plenty of people don’t get any attention from women, they don’t go killing anyone!

Should anyone be worried about jihad? What’s the point in worrying about it, not something anyone can ever be prepared for sufficiently that they’re all the time wearing bomb suits or Kevlar vests! Honestly I’d suggest anyone thinking like that should get some perspective rather than preoccupying themselves with being taken out by some fcukwit that gets it into their head that the solution to their problems is to kill other people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028510#Comment_118028510

they never claimed they were compelled to kill by their religion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028548#Comment_118028548

Drugged up out of control conscripts who didn't want to be in Vietnam.. nothing to do with Christianity

Housefree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028629#Comment_118028629

He's replying to the statement the US act like boy scouts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028642#Comment_118028642

Ok I get . Let me be clear again, THE USA, in comparison to all previous Islamic Empires, act like boy scouts!! Of course you are going to find awful crimes perpetrated by USA forces, but i was making a comparison not stating an objective absolute. The position seems to be because the USA or the west does something bad, that others that do much worse, more consistently over longer periods of time are absolved of their crimes. It logical fallacy and moral equivalence of the lowest order.

TLDR : US GI's murdered German prisoners of war, so lets ignore the crimes of the SS

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028657#Comment_118028657

"are absolved of their crimes"

Literally no one is saying that, you just don't want people pointing out that this shìt has happened throughout history by people of all religious persuasions.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028627#Comment_118028627

They were hardly going to either.

Housefree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028657#Comment_118028657

Give us some examples?

When you say the 'USA or the West does something bad' :

Genocide of the Native Indian population

Massacres of Aboriginal people

Genocide of Jews in Nazi Germany

Up to a 1/4 million civilians killed in a couple of minutes with the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

1/2 million children killed in Iraq because of sanctions

(Off the top of my head)

What events from 'others that do much worse, more consistently over longer periods of time' are there?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028737#Comment_118028737

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028657#Comment_118028657

I can't wait til you read about the Mughal conquest of India! The sheer scale of the killing, done in a pre industrial society(ie by hand) is horrifying

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028559#Comment_118028559

Within recent history, on which side is the death toll higher, those who have died at the hands of islamic terrorists, or those who have died at the hands of remote drone operators or covert ops from military powerhouses?

joseywhales

I don't think we need to worry about the specifics of jihad no more than domestic terrorism or whatever, we just need good laws and good enforcement. If you kill you get caught and punished like any other common killer. Whatever justifications or beliefs of the killer is irrelevant, they are just a person who has given up the right to participate in society, nothing more. I don't care if they claim to be instruments of Allah, Jesus or the devil. They are just mentally ill killers who don't know how to live with the rest of us.

bnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028385#Comment_118028385

Ah yes, the old “cultural relativism” argument, in which no culture is better or worse, just different. I agree that all religions have the potential for violent zealotry, and some have it in their history (Crusades etc.), but only one actively poses that threat today.

Multi-culturalism is an admirable goal, but if you look at the parts of the world under Islamic law, those are the most mono-cultural places with the least tolerance for non-Muslims, and that is not a coincidence. Can we please drop the false-equivalence whataboutery?

SEPT 23 1989

They might try it once and then find out that we are not as forgiving as our neighbours seem to be

we are done with religious wars in this country god help all of them if they start to kill in the name of another religion

enricoh

No we shouldn't be worried about jihad, Ireland is getting all the nice ones and every other country in Europe has got the nasty ones. Luck of the Irish n all that.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028883#Comment_118028883

"we are not as forgiving as our neighbours"

"god help all of them if they start to kill in the name of another religion"

What do you think would happen if a person were to commit a crime in the name of Islam in Ireland?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028905#Comment_118028905

Well the British embassy was burned down. would expect at least a similar reaction to an islamist attack

joseywhales

I think we are good with the Shiites anyway, sure isn't there a bobby sands road in Tehran?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028918#Comment_118028918

What's the address of the ISIS embassy? 🤔🙄

Signore Fancy Pants

The island of Ireland is not immune to religious extremist attacks. They can happen anywhere, anytime and by any method.

If we are critically analysing it, the troubles can be classed as being religiously motivated/extremist terrorism. While broadly being about imperialist occupation, it is narrowly focused on sectarian Christianity, Catholic vs Protestant, similar to Sunni vs Shia.

Those who state Ireland is a potential target solely due to the logistic facilitation of US troops and equipment to the Middle East and Asia, are really just displaying anti-US rhetoric due to their focus on global hegemony and geopolitics.

In reality, there are a number of Irish owned and Irish based companies that directly and indirectly facilitate warfare and death on a greater level than the populist narrative of the logistic use of Shannon. We are not a priority because of Shannon, if we were, it would have happened at the peak of the global war on terrorism.

What stops us being a priority target of Islamic extremism from an organised group?

Nothing.

What mitigates against us being a priority target of Islamic extremism from an organised group?

1. Our global military presence is almost exclusively to promote peace and security. We are not engaged in combat operations or unlawful occupation of Muslim countries.

2. Ireland has historical and contemporary experience of imperial occupation. Something that gives us commonality among (former) colonised nations.

3. Our weak security is both a threat and an asset. We are susceptible to various types of asymmetric attacks. Yet, we do not unduly oppress people who reside here, minorities and extremists alike. Holding religious fundamentalist / extremist ideals are not guarantees of the intent of terrorism.

4. While Ireland has been described as a safe haven for "Jihadists", while plausible, see para 3.

5. While we are not a Muslim dominant country, Ireland in general is viewed as a religious country. While we are "unbelievers" in the extreme Islamic context, we (in general) do believe in a God, therefore "worthy" to an extent....as ridiculous as it seems.

6. Ireland has a reputation for supporting the "underdog", highlighted by support for the Palestinian territories vs Israel. That holds weight with the pan-Arab and Muslim communities.

Should we be afraid of "Jihad" directed at Ireland? no....with caveats.

It is unlikely that an organised Jihadist cell has the intent to randomly strike the Irish people, despite being the epitome of "western globalised values".

Caveats: (Islamic terrorist attacks)

1. Attacks can still occur in Ireland, targeteting other nations interests i.e. major tech companies, banks, embassy's and consulates, prominent celebrations.

2. The majority of low capability attacks in Europe have been opportunist and (hastily) disorganised. Using bladed weapons and vehicle rammings.

3. The majority have not been planned, directed, facilitated or conducted by an organised terrorist group. Yet have subsequently been claimed by same.

4. The majority of Islamic extremist attacks in Europe have been from radicalised individuals or recent Muslim converts with a variety of mental health issues.

It is unlikely to occur but if it does, it won't be because of "Jihad" or marauding terrorism like the Bataclan in Paris.....maaaaybe the Manchester Arena style, still its remote.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028931#Comment_118028931

The Shia are very interesting. despite the current Tehran regime, they are much more open, plural, intellectual and forgiving than the Sunni(90%) majority. When one looks into the islamic golden age under the Sunni caliphate in Baghdad,, most of the scientists/philosophers were of Shia origin and culture. These are the people who have done the hard fighting against Isis, and the small number i have known as work colleagues have all been great colleagues without the bang of extremism or contempt displayed by their more numerous sunni colleagues(not all).

I would suggest they retained a lot of their Persian culture despite adopting(post conquest) the militant arab religion

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028500#Comment_118028500

In this case that middle eastern Muslim should fk off back to the middle east and be angry at the west there, and not while living in the west.

Housefree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029016#Comment_118029016

Or maybe the west should fk off out of the middle east

Parachutes

The Northern Ireland situation is completely different and like comparing apples and oranges. The IRA/UVF were not fighting based on their different interpretations of Christianity but on a political issue of the state of N.I. Complete red herring in this conversation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028905#Comment_118028905

Nothing much. As in Britain.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029069#Comment_118029069

they effectively have withdrawn. from taking over the ex provinces of the Turkish and persian empires,, to leaving in the 1950s, to the withdrawal from Afghanistan and Syria. Yes there are isolated garrisons left in Irag and with permission of different middle eastern governments. The last 70 years has been effectively one big withdrawal from the middle east(and former colonies in general)

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028897#Comment_118028897

As long as we don't get on the wrong side of them and piss them off we will be fine. They have an issue with the USA, France, Netherlands, Denmark, Australia UK etc. Not us.

We have to follow their rules and guidelines for media and publications under threat of jihad. They made it clear in France, Netherlands and Denmark what would happen if they don't.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029588#Comment_118029588

IF we do as you suggest we have accepted dhimmi status and are now part of Dar al Islam. Shag that!

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029527#Comment_118029527

Poster was talking as if the outcome would be different.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029528#Comment_118029528

You must have been asleep missed the last couple of decades so, I suggest you Google what's happened in the M.E and come back to us when you have caught up.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118028883#Comment_118028883

LOL, good one. We're so tough, we already let one of them off for killing a young Japanese citizen. Fucker will probably never be reported on again and then be fucked back to Egypt for a while. Also the UK have been pointing out for at least decade now that Ireland is used for fundraising and a handy staging post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029588#Comment_118029588

They also have an issue with Belgium, Spain, Sweden, Norway, each other, gays, women, the people down the road, people who say an extra prayer that they don't... but sure we'll be grand I'm sure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213408/should-we-in-ireland-be-concerned-about-jihad

We are seeing a lot of terror attacks now across Europe. I am amazed that we have yet to see the same on in Ireland (thankfully!)

What's a lot? I mean if you actually look at how many attacks there have been over the last decade, it's really not that many... especially, when you use a term like Jihad in association. Honestly, I think if Europe was under attack from a genuine Jihad, we'd be seeing a hundred times as many attacks that have happened so far, but each and every year. It's not as if there is a shortage of volunteers available.

Islam is a peaceful religion at its core and islamphobia is equally something we need to consider through education, awareness and community work.

Except it's not. At it's core, it's a religion that is based off Judaism (which is quite violent/aggressive), and interpreted by a prophet who was very interested in the militant application of Religion.

Islamaphobia is just like transphobia. A catchall term used to squash any criticism of a subject regardless of whether there is fear, contempt, hatred, etc... or not. All and any criticism or concerns about Islam is considered Islamaphobia... which is just plain retarded.

We should be teaching people the history of Islam both as a religion and as a culture, and allowing people to come to their own opinions, based on facts.. which are not biased towards one viewpoint or another.

However, there a still big challenges in the Middle East which is absolutely contributing to the global unrest of extremists.

You might want to include Africa and Asia in that, since they have sizable Muslim populations, and are, in many cases, just as unstable in terms of economy, and governments.. along with civil wars, attempted genocides, etc.

The M.East needs to be left alone to sort themselves out. As long as western nations continue to dabble there, Arab nations will never have to face the need to reform their cultures, and the place of religion in their lives.

Is this something we should be concerned about in Ireland?

Terrorism? Highly unlikely. Ireland serves as an excellent place for the financing and recruitment efforts of the various groups, since the Irish government has no interest in shutting them down. Some concern should be expressed about the growth of our Muslim population, and the effect that might have on our society, and their expectations as to what should be allowed for them under the right to practice their religious beliefs. The real problem is more to do with whether a large muslim population becomes established at the bottom of the socio-economic demographics, and the social unrest that may come from second generation Muslims, but that's a problem for all religions or cultural groups.

But no, I don't think Ireland has any reason to be concerned about what happens in terms of terrorism.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029731#Comment_118029731

Two different issues though. The first is about terrorism, and attacks made in Europe. Which is likely as a result of Western presence and activities carried out in the M.East/Africa.

The opposition to homosexuality and women's rights is cultural... and it's hardly a reason for terrorism.. since they have a wide range of far easier countries to target if that was the case. It's more of a problem for individuals wanting to make a violent gesture against such differences, but not linked to any terror group campaigns.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058213408/should-we-in-ireland-be-concerned-about-jihad

Are we? More so than 5-10 years ago? Actually seems pretty sporadic to me. Possible that one lone nut could go on the rampage in any 'western' country I suppose, but given our small Islamic population I'd say it's pretty long odds one of these attacks will happen in Ireland.

10000maniacs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118029941#Comment_118029941

A BBC journalist was asked why they digitized out the cartoon on the front page of the Charlie Hebdo when they were reporting the story.

They replied that they don't want to experience the same fate as the French journalists.

I'm sure journalists in Ireland feel the same way and are scared of it too. Freedom of expression has been taken away by the threat of jihad.

Strumms

It will happen here, sometime. In my view it’s not IF...it’s only how, where and when.

Piss easy...for example...Paddy’s day suicide attack could kill hundreds around O’Connell st... terrorists placed at each end of the street with automatic weapons taking out first responders... carnage...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118030784#Comment_118030784

Freedom of expression? Ireland has a long history of censorship, and keeping to the middle to avoid offending certain groups, often the political, or religious. I'd be rather cynical about this claim of freedom of expression considering the way Irish journalism has always been. It's not something that has been put under threat by Muslims being angry over what's printed. It's just another reason to avoid offending others.

That's not to say that I believe that Journalists should avoid printing about Islam. They should... but I don't think we've ever had the range of freedoms that you seem to suggest have been removed.

And it's not a threat of Jihad, since Jihad refers to a religious war, which is far more serious than the reactions that have happened so far to the portrayal of Mohammad. Honestly, i wonder at people's perception of scale when they equate a few individuals acting out vs an actual war where thousands are called upon to bring about "justice" (justice in their eyes, which is what a Jihad is all about)