Are healthcare workers becoming more rude and obnoxious?

I’ve had a lot of significant health issues in the past, de real major surgeries etc. and have had mixed experiences. I know dealing with sick people, stressed relatives etc isn’t an easy task, and it’s not easy being a patient or close relative of one. It can be a high octane situation where outcomes can be uncertain, people are in physical and emotional pain and that can go for the staff too.

I find the GP service atm irritatingly bad, though. I invariably have to email to get a phone appointment as by policy phone is never answered by practice admin staff. Then one awaits the unsatisfactory phone consultation, not even FaceTime or any video app. Finally the payment bit. The admin staff are never available to take payment after the consultation and there is no online system to pay. You can’t contact the surgery by phone, they phone you when it suits them to collect payment, that could be a week later. And you don’t get a receipt that way either for insurance/tax. Invariably I find I have to call down to the surgery next day or so and ask to pay and insist on a receipt which is never volunteered.

I'm not even going to try and defend the administration side of healthcare. There's just no defending them. Nope. Just can't. even. no.

(Most of them just should not be there. It really simply is a case of inadequately qualified to perform the roles they do. Basic secretarial qualification and business degrees don't really provide the skills necessary to work in what are essentially positions in social care. It's not a judgment on them but it's like employing a plumber to do an electricians job)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033833#Comment_118033833

Not any more in this climate of finding fault with everyone.

I know it's been referred to as "the great equalizer" and there is truth in that. (in a guess what we are all human!) In others way's the pandemic has highlighted all our inequalities and how we deal with minorities and the disadvantaged. This is no less true here in Ireland and it's no surprise that we are programmed to see flaws and faults in each other and our systems when we are being disproportionally affected by them.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032087#Comment_118032087

I experienced the same homecare situation in our family... my uncle living on his own and with a mobility issue got on like a house on fire with his carer, more like mates, he went away for a week with his kids to Spain for holiday and respite , came back and that carer as she’s entitled to do got cover work with another client as she wanted to keep her holidays till later... but that client was not getting on with her carer but LOVED this girl Sarah and persuaded the company to swap carers with my uncle .. my cousins had to fight tooth and nail to the point of threatening to cancel the care plan, reporting them to the HSE and look after him themselves.... did that and the company relented and backed down...pricks. The office staff and managers were cûnts...carers first class mainly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033829#Comment_118033829

The same could be said in reverse.

If you want to take the example in the OP, there is no excuse for any health care staff "admonishing" an elderly dementia patient for not keeping their elbows inside a wheelchair.

I don't care how **** a day they're having or how under pressure they are. That's just mean.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036688#Comment_118036688

Exactly, only human ? No, they need to be professional...

Galwayguy35

There are rude obnoxious arseholes in every profession, yet in this country we seem to think every health care worker is some kind of Florence Nightingale back from the dead.

First time I was in hospital was when I was 16 and the ward sister was a horrible tramp who shouted at me and other patients all the time, now I would be well able to stand up for myself but I was a kid at the time and she really upset me.

GoogleBot

Why everything tend to go worst ? I don't see any improvements anywhere...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044445#Comment_118044445

well, maybe he was just being adickulus. There's a very large number of migrant health care workers in Ireland, especially in care homes and specifically Asian (I think there's 8,000 filipino nurses working in Ireland). It doesn't make it right but statistically he was more likely to have an encounter with an Asian worker than and Irish one. I suspect his anger was just vented in a way which took aim at a target he could name. So to speak. He may have legitimate concerns but it would definitely help if we all learned to "name" things better.

Strumms

Working in all levels of health, absolute fluent English should be a prerequisite.

want to be Garda, air traffic controller, .OR .. carer, physio, doctor, nurse, anesthetist, you need to have absolute fluent English, written and spoken.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045205#Comment_118045205

That would rule out a lot of Irish people.

No it wouldn't.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045529#Comment_118045529

Good :). You don’t have the requisite skills to do the job.. it should rule you out..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118033145#Comment_118033145

Apologies. You made some points in a very inflammatory way though. "Rape homes" is too much.

It's a complex one. Between healthcare workers who act the arsehole, patients and their families wanting to be prioritised (which is natural to a point but they're part of a huge number), patients/families who are being difficult, nice healthcare workers, healthcare workers who are neither nice nor rude, healthcare workers who are over worked/under resourced, back-logs, emergencies, A&E queues... and now the nightmare of the past 18+ months, it's just a recipe for short fuses. From everyone. Most patients are grand and most staff are grand, but all it takes is a small number of gowls to turn the atmosphere toxic.

I know, it's really not ideal, but it's not coming from the wind. I do think being nice to them could work sometimes (if appropriate) - it is a huge boost to someone in a tough job when they are shown appreciation.

The likes of Leas Cross though - that's not just about staff being rude, that's another level. Criminal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044561#Comment_118044561

My own personal experience with the carers in my mother's (excellent) nursing home, was that a very high level of fluency in english is an absolute requirement, particularly if caring for dementia patients. !00% fluency may not always be possible, but it should be as high as possible.

Dementia sufferers struggle with communication enough as it is, without a language (or strong accent) barrier with their carers' making that communication more difficult. There were one or two carers on my mother's unit whose english, in my opinion, was not sufficiently fluent and I could see the confusion and frustration in my mother when trying to communicate across that barrier, and I brought this to the attention of the Director of Nursing at the time.

That's not a slight on anyone. It just my personal real life experience.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047051#Comment_118047051

I'm sorry for your experience. I don't work for the HSE or would take the position of an apologist on their behalf, I know I've had my own experiences so rest assured I can empathise with the op and others who have expressed their experiences on the topic. I actually think it helps a lot to be able to share them with others and to know that you're not alone. Clearly these are profound experiences and have left their mark.

I know language can be a barrier and I'm not sure of the level of qualification but I imagine English fluency would rate highly but the terms of provision of care Irish people are no less immune to falling below standard. I remember dealing with a member of clerical staff who continually refused to answer any calls from a certain number because she just didn't want to "listen to her voice". The number belonged to the daughter of a cancer patient and it wasn't until said staff member went away on annual leave, were the calls answered. (by myself) If I were to go into the story I'd get depressed so I won't but needless to say that woman would never have received the help she needed due to the deliberate act of neglect on behalf of the staff member. That person was Irish and had worked in the service for almost two decades. Being fluent in English does not guarantee better care but care would definitely improve if these kinds of actions were not tolerated or reprimanded and given that it's the HSE that will never happen. In fact that individual would more than likely receive promotions and pay rises along with the rest of the system.

BronsonTB

Fully agree with the OP - Healthcare workers (in general!) are getting ruder...the whole HSE system sucks, not fit for purpose & something will eventually have to give

Money is being spent on it but the HSE is run very very badly...

SAMTALK

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048543#Comment_118048543

TBF I think most healthcare workers are under a lot of pressure (does not excuse rudeness by the way ), the biggest problem is that there are too many pen pushers in the HSE and not enough of on the ground workers which is actually what is really needed.

The wages that are paid to the "suits" in the hse is criminal , it is a disgrace and should be disbanded and reset in a more practical and workable way . Money should be spent on care of staff and patients and not on totally overstaffed office management

BronsonTB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048619#Comment_118048619

Not doubting their work pressures but the OP asked if Healthcare workers are getting ruder, IMO, yes they are (Multiple reasons but at the end of the day, alot are plain rude to patients where there own pressures are not the patients fault, but they do get the brunt of it!)

@rehome

@rehome

"I know language can be a barrier and I'm not sure of the level of qualification but I imagine English fluency would rate highly but the terms of provision of care Irish people are no less immune to falling below standard."

I actually agree with you here. My point was purely about fluency level in english, and sometimes strong accents making communication more difficult for dementia patients (but someone could equally struggle with a strong Irish accent from some counties!)

Indeed, actions speak louder than words.

Everybody us getting ruder and more obnoxious

Goldengirl

Like any other job you get every type of person all good and bad in their own way at different times.

My job in ICU is very stretched and busy and patients are grateful for everything.

Relatives can be quiet and thankful or angry and upset and we try to deal with all as best we can.

I am generally as nice as I would expect someone to be to me, so if a relative usually is screaming in my face or my colleagues, I will ask them to calm down and we will talk. A cuppa helps if someone has time, or else a little timeout, outside the unit.

What people need to realise is its not just your relative in the unit and we have to balance everyone's needs as well as getting whatever we need done.

For those who think they can be rude or have tantrums, just imagine what would happen if you behaved like that to a member of staff in a bank or a school... You would be asked to calm down and then asked to leave and security called if you didn't.

Why should people think they can treat hospital staff differently?

Because generally nurses are appeasers in their nature so some are not able to deal with irate or troublesome people and don't like confrontation.

I think some of the public take advantage of this as some of the comments here show.

It's not the fault of hcws that the health service here is always struggling and it's certainly not easy to do the job.

If you have an issue with your relatives care, ask politely to talk to the nurse caring for your relative and explain your problem. 9 times out of 10, this will iron out any difficulties. If it doesn't talk to his or her manager but always keep it calm and polite, or you will quite rightly, imo, be shown the door.

Remember it's the health service for good of the patient. Relatives are important and invaluable when relationships are good, but dispensable when things go sour.

No nurse wants to have aggro on their shift and anything like that would upset most nurses.

The odd few enjoy being mean and controlling, but they are in the minority.

I have met some right wagons, but also in every other walk of life.

So OP be polite and get over yourself for the sake of good relations with the people caring for your relative.

I too have been where you are and it's a very difficult and hard place but fighting gets you nowhere and you need to express what your loved one needs in a less confrontational manner. Like you would if you were dealing with any other issue in life.

But emotions do get in the way we all understand that. Difficult time for you.

PalLimerick

Yes I am aware of that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118032167#Comment_118032167

Chuck Norris is back lols. Grow up keyboard hard man.

SuperBowserWorld

Irish health care is bad because we only care about house prices in Ireland. We will spend all our time and income on housing. We don't care about anything except houses and land. We will piss billions away onto the national debt just as long as that house price keeps going up up up. We love property tax cause it shows our house price is going up up up.

If we can afford a house it means everything else looks cheaper. Private health insurance. Cheap!! Compared to a house.

Children with untreated scoliosis. We don't care. Someone dying on a trolley next to a sink that was used as a uninal. We don't care. Infinite cost of children's hospital. We don't care. Just put it on the national debt. We don't care. Billions spent on covid. No extra capacity. We don't care. Untrained staff in the healthcare system. Trained doctors and nurses leaving the country cause it's too expensive to live here. We don't care. Eating too much junk food, drinking too much, sitting on our arses all day. We don't care. Fights in a&e. We don't care.

As a nation we just don't care. Planning, budgeting, vision, responsibility, that's for other countries. The Brits, the EU.

Honestly. When did Irish people actually march about something nationwide. Apart from water taxes I can't think of anything. The kids marched for climate and were laughed at.

SuperBowserWorld

Sorry about my previous keypad rant. But I feel like we've regressed since the last crash and that was barely over 10 years ago. You'd think we'd learn and be wiser as a nation.

But we are back to Celtic Tiger ignorance and greed and worse.

This is a very informative thread. I would love to hear a similar discussion about health care in European countries from people who have lived all their lives in those countries and have had to deal with the good and bad aspects of health care there. Annodotal evidence from Johnny and Mary who spent some time in France isn't a great comparison.

However I can't imagine it's anything like how bad things are here. Really. There is health care and their is downright dangerous and degrading and sub human treatment of the public and healthcare workers here.

Some of the stuff you hear is incredible. Remember we are a tiny, low population, wealthy country. We should not have these problems or treat each other like dirt.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051643#Comment_118051643

"Relatives are important and invaluable when relationships are good, but dispensible when things go sour".

This really rubs me the wrong way.

I wish someone had told me how dispensible I was when I spent 39 hours in a cubicle in A&E trying to manage my ill, confused and frightened dementia patient mother alone, without ever being offered a break, let alone a "cuppa". They were too busy to feed her, too. Maybe I should have just gone home and left them to get on with it.

Instead I got my head bitten off for daring to leave her side to go to the toilet.

Totally dispensible.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056945#Comment_118056945

So sorry if it' rubs you the wrong way'. Not talking about the vast majority whom we all know are stressed and anxious and are given as much leeway as possible so that they can stay with their relatives.

If I have to explain... again.... what I mean by turning sour, it is the screaming angry person who thinks that it is OK to behave in a rude hostile and totally aggressive manner to any person trying to do their job.

I think you would have seen that in my post.

In no other walk of life are people allowed to behave in the manner some think is OK.

If you have a problem with someone's attitude in another environment, how would you deal with it?

We allow for the fact that people are going through some very major stress and anxiety all the time, and either give people space or try to address their worries as best we can, but it does not excuse the extremes of behaviour in every situation.

As for your case you have my sympathy and I have been there myself. But I didn't expect too much apart from getting my mother examined, xrayed etc, observations and back home because I know they haven't got enough staff to look after those on trolleys, never mind feed the relatives.

I am talking about ICU where I work and we have more facilities for relatives. And only those that disrupt care are told to go.

That is the issue.. Elderly people left for hours in AE on trolleys or worse.

Direct your anger at those who are responsible.

Heard that HSE COO Anne O'Connor flying through waiting times and trolley counts and talking about " only" so many " over 75s waiting on a trolley for over 9 hours" , as if that is ever acceptable for any sick person, never mind elderly, frail patients, who are so at risk of clots and pressure sores and confusion.

But there is never beds to put people in.

People need to harass their local politicians and those that can change this system. It has been tolerated for way too long.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118057076#Comment_118057076

And what about when the angry, hostile person you describe is actually the HCW?

And don't say it doesn't happen. Because it does. Far too frequently. That is what this thread was started about. Its also not just about A&E. The OP was talking about regular, routine clinic appointments, where he was treated poorly.

I've been a civil servant myself for over 30 years, and have had my fair share of dealing with hostile members of the public. So I know what it is like to be on the receiving end.

But the impression I am getting here is that relatives and patients should act humbly and be forgiving and accepting of rude and/or agressive treatment when HCWs are the ones doling it out, because of the stressful nature of their jobs.

In fact, the advice is to basically supplicate yourself to them, if they are rude to you.