What would Ireland look like if we didn't join the EU?

Grab All Association · 13-10-2021 10:23am

We’d be somewhat similar to New Zealand and have probably had negotiated a number of trade deals with other countries and the EU. People forget that Ireland had a lot more industry before joining the EU. There was also multinationals opening/long established here before EU membership. Off my head Krups came here in 1964. We also had more hospitals, less crime and less homelessness.

Take Thurles for example, still an unemployment black spot for over 32 years. It had Irish Sugar, Erin Foods, Phoenix Yarns, SweeneysBakery Tiklas, Tipperary Candy, Tipperary Cereals, Hibernian Foods, Marriot Radiators O' Meara's and Dwans. Suir Valley Icecream, Cody's, bakrery. The town was booming in the 1960s.

replace Thurles with any other provincial town and I’m sure it’d be similar story.

Podge_irl · 13-10-2021 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012540#Comment_118012540

The economy that we do have now is completely reliant on the EU. We do not have a fossil fuel industry or massive historical banking industry. What exactly is it you think Ireland could have done?

breezy1985 · 13-10-2021 10:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118010151#Comment_118010151

Straight up lie

Dyr · 13-10-2021 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012658#Comment_118012658

We had the single market before the EU existed. European nations were trading successfully long before the EU existed and will be doing so long after its gone. It's a weirdly Chinese idea that nothing good would be possible without the existence of the great benevolent government

Podge_irl · 13-10-2021 10:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012734#Comment_118012734

Of course we'd have trade deals, though they wouldn't be as good.

Globalisation and the decline of local industry is not a phenomenon depending solely on Ireland's membership of the EU.

Peregrinus · 13-10-2021 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012615#Comment_118012615

It may not be trivial, but historically Irish people have a very high propensity to emigrate and, when conditions at home become unfavourable, it's something we resort to much more readily than most other countries do. In the past people would emigrate to escape an economy that could not provide them with employment; in the future it's by no means impossible that they would emigrate to escape an economy that cannot provide them with housing.

13-10-2021 10:52am

As to the example of Norway/Switzerland.

The latter were highly diversified long before the EU.

Ever been? Most cats speak about 3 languages in their general daily meanderings.

i.e. cultural diversity was always a staple part of their setup, and their integrative abilities in this sense seemed to reflect quite well culturally and (almost certainly not co-incidentally), economically.

Ireland?

Many dudes were muck-savages back when.

I mean, legit, and there's parts that still try to hold onto their muck-savagery like their balls, like they're proud of that shit.

No wonder the Irish language can't take off, when it's so inherently associated with living out of a bog hole and dancing to the tin-whistle.

Hell there's immigrants have got a better hold on our own language now (via being raised in Irish schools), than many natives ever did.

13-10-2021 10:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012880#Comment_118012880

Hah yeah those welcoming cosmopolitan Swiss. Loads of them are total reactionaries.

13-10-2021 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012901#Comment_118012901

Reactionaries?

Reactionaries to what?

They're not part of the EU.

13-10-2021 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012916#Comment_118012916

Narrow-minded reactionary conservatives. Plenty of them could be viewed as as closeminded and backwards as you are tarring the Irish.

Hamachi · 13-10-2021 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012853#Comment_118012853

Agreed. However, the context of this discussion is the EU. There is no historical precedent for statistically significant numbers of young Irish families emigrating to EU countries, with the exception of the UK, which is no longer a member. I don't believe that it's highly probable that we will see substantial waves of Irish emigrants transplanting to Germany, France, Scandinavia etc.

I also agree that housing costs could potentially be a push factor. There are several root causes of the housing crises that we are currently experiencing, one of which is of course, supply and demand. The supply simply isn't there to cater for strong demand from a growing population, driven to a large extent by natural increase, but also by substantial inward migration, from both within and outside of the EU.

13-10-2021 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012691#Comment_118012691

Lol, superficial understanding 😂

the freedom of movement allowed because of our membership of the EU is one of the most positives elements. Which you yourself enjoyed, if I'm not mistaken?

The point of my original post, which you jumped on, was merely answering a post from someone claiming that young families cannot buy houses here because of immigration caused by EU membership. Do you agree?

Never mentioned racism btw, where are you pulling that from??

Dyr · 13-10-2021 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012927#Comment_118012927

Any ideas on why our population is growing so quickly? Natural population growth is very predictable.

Dyr · 13-10-2021 11:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012880#Comment_118012880

Poor attempt. Try much harder.

Wanderer78 · 13-10-2021 12:07pm

we d probably be fcuked outside of the eu, the uk is gonna seriously regret this one, you do most of your trade with your closed neighbors, so that would mean, we d be screwed

Dyr · 13-10-2021 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013206#Comment_118013206

It's a weird trade deal the EU offers, divest your parliament of control of your borders, laws etc. for good or lose access to the common market.

Sunny Disposition · 13-10-2021 12:25pm

It's impossible to know, really impossible.

Saying the EU has been good for Ireland is I suspect true, but it's impossible to know nearly 50 years on. Socially it insisted on us stopping the criminalisation of gay acts, so obviously that was good.

We certainly exploited the economic opportunities that came with it, but we'll never know what would have happened without it.

There is a tendency to view things in black and white terms around the EU I think, every thing positive gets credited to it and no negatives are acknowledged.

Free movement is basically a good thing, but there's no doubt the level of inward migration makes coming up with decent housing policy very hard.

I don't think there'll ever be any appetite for Ireland leaving the EU, but it's impossible to know what would have happened if we hadn't joined. We'll never know that. Whether we joined or not Ireland would inevitably have changed dramatically in the 48 years since, but it's impossible to say what the impact would have been.

Hamachi · 13-10-2021 12:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013159#Comment_118013159

Natural population growth is actually fairly unpredictable. Ireland actually experienced very high levels of natural growth from 2008-2012. It has since receded, but the population still grew naturally by ~25K last year, despite the pandemic. Who knows what future trends will bring..

The population is growing rapidly due to a combination of natural growth + inward migration.

SeeMoreBut · 13-10-2021 12:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009024#Comment_118009024

What particular rules are you referring to? Not a generic statement but a particular law or rule

Hamachi · 13-10-2021 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013153#Comment_118013153

Surface-level understanding. Whatever - same thing lol
For once, I agree with you on something. Intra-EU freedom of movement is a positive and should be protected.
You weren't merely answering a post. It was the standard-level riposte, suggesting that young Irish families can simply go live somewhere 'sunnier'. Par for the course.
As above, the root cause of the housing crisis is supply and demand. Demand is driven primarily by population growth, to which EU inward migration is a contributory pipeline. Is it the primary reason why young people are locked out of the housing market? No.

whisky_galore · 13-10-2021 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009024#Comment_118009024

Umm which type of armoured personnel carrier were you intent on buying before the horrid old EU put a stop to your gallop?

Dyr · 13-10-2021 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013313#Comment_118013313

It takes about 20 years for a natural surge in population to enter the housing market as adults. It's very predictable. Immigration on the other hand...

Kermit.de.frog · 13-10-2021 12:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012540#Comment_118012540

This is the nail on the head right here. You can argue the merits or otherwise of EU membership but when it descends to the level of "the Irish are too stupid to govern themselves" like Iceland or Singapore or Norway it is very insulting...and this is the essence of what is implied all the time.

And they're essentially saying we can never leave. This country is defacto a hostage.

My answer to that was why did we bother with independence in the first place to hand it over to Brussels? What was it all for?

Because it's crystal clear to me we have ever less control of our own destiny and affairs with each passing decade.

What are we getting in return that we couldn't have outside the EU? Market access?

Well if that's the price of fundamental control of our own affairs, at a most basic level, then we may as well become a state of the United States or a province of China, two bigger markets.

Why stop at the EU? Let's sell out to the highest bidder.

Wanderer78 · 13-10-2021 1:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013258#Comment_118013258

the eu has moved away from its original ideologies and beliefs, it has become a libertarian mess, it originally was formed to reduce the potential of conflicts, to increase wealth and the richness of our relationships, and to reduce wealth inequality, amongst other reasons, but it is now heading in the almost opposite direction, the union is in big trouble

Tazzimus · 13-10-2021 1:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212676/what-would-ireland-look-like-if-we-didnt-join-the-eu

If you were a 90's kid, you're a millennial..

Millennials are between 1981-1994/96

Podge_irl · 13-10-2021 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013626#Comment_118013626

What exactly about the EU is Libertarian?

Wanderer78 · 13-10-2021 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014205#Comment_118014205

where do you start!

its clearly obvious the major centers of power within the eu are the ecb and the commission, all unelected officials! i probably do need to go much further than that, but.....