Underpaid Restaurant Bill

head82

Would it not have been wiser for the restaurant to offset the €30 tip against the €69 drinks bill? Ok, the staff loose out on the tip and the restaurant reduces the loss on the drinks but it would also lessen the potential loss of future custom and and the subsequent 'bad mouthing' from a disgruntled customer that comes with it.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974198#Comment_117974198

Isn't it illegal to deduct mistakes from wages?

If it were me, I'd pay the amount less the tip given. That shouldn't be using Covid contact tracing information for the purposes of tracking down customers though. I suspect that they wouldn't be as diligent in tracking you down had the mistake been in their favour.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974149#Comment_117974149

I agree here what is stopping them texting deals or anything. Also anything thing to note how do they know what customer has what bill. To the OP I would pay. You know it was the groups bill

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974198#Comment_117974198

No, the bill is the legal document, it’s an invoice, the menu with the actual prices isn’t. If I reconcile the bill I’m issued, I’m done.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974142#Comment_117974142

I thinkthe OP is of the thinking of paying but hoping there is a reason not to pay

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974184#Comment_117974184

well you did suggest criminality with a not so subtle nod and a wink. What civil cause of action do you think the restaurant has?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974198#Comment_117974198

so if you are given more change than you are entitled to and do not notice that would constitute theft?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974233#Comment_117974233

They settled the invoice given.

The drinks were not on that bill.

A separate invoice is issued for the drinks.

Your reasoning is faulty. Perhaps if the drinks were on the bill at an incorrect price then you may have a point but that is not what appears to have happened. They got drinks, the drinks were not on the bill, at no point has the customer paid anything for those drinks so the liability for the drinks still exists between the supplier and the company.

The OP wants to weasel out of the bill but there isn't much debate to be had here, they got the drinks and did not pay for them, they are still liable for the drinks.

ohnonotgmail

the restaurant also has the issue (apart from the incorrect use of the covid tracking information) that the drink was consumed by multiple people. The person they contacted is not responsible for drinks consumed by others. The restaurants ability to get payment for the drinks is severely limited.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974312#Comment_117974312

No, because intention is an element of theft.

"a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it."

Based on the assumption of course that you genuinely did not notice. If you did notice the extra change and said nothing it would indeed be theft. A theft that would be incredibly difficult to prove, but a theft all the same.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211599/underpaid-restaurant-bill

I'd be very wary, as a business, from using COVID tracking information to contact customers.

A booking number? Work away but accept that you may be told to "Feck off, I paid the bill I was given"

The number presented and kept for the specific reason of HSE Track and Trace? Under no circumstances use it for any other purpose

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974320#Comment_117974320

Surely the person who made the booking has contracted with the restaurant, so the liability lies there.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974324#Comment_117974324

an assumption that the prosecution is obliged to prove.

SunnySundays

No matter what the legal position is, I think it's really miserable to behave this way.

The drink were consumed. The hospitality industry has suffered more than most during covid and continues to do so. They are struggling to get staff and business still hasn't returned to pre covid levels.

Just pay the bill.

Henry Ford III

If you owe them money why not just pay it?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974342#Comment_117974342

Sure. Thats why I said "A theft that would be incredibly difficult to prove, but a theft all the same."

irishgrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974109#Comment_117974109

Not sure what the "GDP...Christ above" comment adds to a post in the "Legal Discussion".

GDPR is absolutely an issue here. The provision of the telephone number is clearly and exclusively for the use of Covid / close contact reasons only and is required by law. To use it for any other reason eg Marketing / Promotions / Debt collection is opening up the business to a world of potential pain.

To the OP: I would probably paid the bill. Or specifically pay the balance, minus the tip, if you so desire. Once paid I would then inform them that you are reporting them to the DPC.

JimmyAlfonso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974366#Comment_117974366

Come on now it's blatantly obvious they knew the drinks weren't added to the bill at the time. We're all adults here and we all have calculate a ballpark figure the bill will be before it arrives, we may not check items it if it seems reasonable but in this instance it would have been obvious the minute the bill was presented to you that they forgot drinks. You and your mates simply thought you'd get away with it and paid and left.

Now I'm assuming with a €30 tip the bill was circa €200. In this case I think the restaurant should suck it up and use it as a learning moment for staff, the €69 in drink probably cost them only €20 and the means of contacting you were dubious.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974430#Comment_117974430

Not sure why you are quoting me, I was responding to a hypothetical about getting too much change back. Personally I think the OP's group knew full well the bill was short.

Regarding the tip, everybody assumes that the restaurant got the tip and have it to put against the bill, when its possible it was left as cash for the staff instead.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974222#Comment_117974222

Exactly, short changed you by xx euros it wouldn’t be a phone call it would be SFA.. :)

micosoft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974141#Comment_117974141

You keep saying that word "Audit". I'm not sure you know what it means?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974509#Comment_117974509

It means to inspect or an official examination of a document or processes.

Peregrinus

No need to hypothesise about dishonesty, who noticed what, who took advantage, etc.

The restaurant drew up the bill and failed to notice the drinks they served that should have been on it. The patrons accepted the bill and failed to notice the drinks they consumed that should have been on it. Both sides acted honestly and in good faith.

This is a mutual mistake. The party disadvantaged by it can seek to have it rectified by having the patrons pay the shortfall. The patrons would need some additional facts, not appearing in the OP, to have any good defence (such as, they altered their position to their own disadvantage in good-faith reliance on the correctness of the bill prepared by the restaurant).

So, yeah, OP and his friends are obliged to pay the outstanding balance. Can't comment on whether the restaurant are being rude with the tone or frequency of their requests but (a) it's irrelevant to the legal issue; you don't lose your rights by being rude when asserting them; and (b) a counter-argument could be made that the partons are being rude, and more than rude, in withholding payment now that the mistake has been explained to them.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974210#Comment_117974210

None , load of rubbish

Oranage2

What proof does the restaurant have that those drink were drunk by the table? With such shoddy practices the restaurant could have made a mistake with the number of drinks, unless there was a camera in the restaurant showing which drinks were drunk, I'd tell them to use the tip as payment and don't call me again especially if they used the covid tracker as the way to contact me.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977885#Comment_117977885

The fact that the restaurant was able to contact them the following day with a request for a precise amount suggests that they do, in fact, have a record of the drinks served to the table (which is what you would expect). Plus, the OP doesn't dispute that drinks were served, or the amount of the charge being made. There's no evidence that the restaurant made any mistake, other than failing to include the drinks in the bill presented to the diners.

By all means, fight this on the basis that, if the restaurant made one mistake, they must be taken without further evidence to have made any other mistake that you care to impute to them. It's not a defence that's likely to succeed, though, so maybe wise to have a second string to your bow before you go into battle on this one.

Fr Tod Umptious

Just on the GDPR thing.

Yes the restaurant should not have used the contact tracing info to make contact about the bill.

But indulge me in a little bit of whataboutery, let's say the situation was different.

Let's say a restaurant found a sum of money at a table after the people had left, and it was obvious that that sum of money was too large to constitute part of a bill.

Would people be reporting the restaurant to the DPC if the restaurant used the contact tracing info to find and contact a person to return their sum of money ?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977889#Comment_117977889

Maybe but after they collect the money

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974340#Comment_117974340

contracted with? you mean the person who made the reservation? On what basis is the person who made the basis responsible for the bill? When did that start to be true?

cizolin

Pay the outstanding bill and move on or inform them you won't be paying the bill and move on.