Underpaid Restaurant Bill

SnrInfant

Hi

I'm just looking for a legal stance on this.

I was out for a meal with friends in a restaurant lately and we asked for the bill, which we paid plus a €30 tip.

The restaurant contacted one of us through our covid contact number and said they forgot to put the drinks on it (€69) euro.

What would you? Have they a right to bombard us like this when it was their own fault?

We will pay it, but are we legally obliged to? I just think the way they have gone about it is very rude.

Thanks

mayota

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211599/underpaid-restaurant-bill

It doesn’t sound like you were bombarded tbf. Everyone makes mistakes, just pay the bill, end of.

SnrInfant

They have been calling daily! I would call that 'bombarded'.

bucketybuck

"Bombard"?

Sounds like the rude part was them having the cheek to ask at all...

Nobody in your group noticed that the bill had no drinks on it or was about €70 short of what was expected? Sure.

Legally I believe that since you got the drinks then the debt applies and should be paid.

Scotty #

I'm sure they don't have the right to take payment from the card without asking but they absolutely have the right to request full settlement of the bill regardless of who's mistake it was. I can't see why you wouldn't be legally obliged to settle it either. You're certainly morally obliged to.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973810#Comment_117973810

Why do they have to call daily? Surely they are calling daily because your party won't pay their bill?

h2005

Pay the bill and that stops the daily calls? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973810#Comment_117973810

Just curious, at the time of bill being presented, did no one notice, no drinks were charged for, if after initial call was made by the restaurant and clearly ignored, its not unreasonable to expect follow up calls from the restaurant, you may consider it bombarding, I call it follow up. Based on the Tip you paid and shared in your OP, can we assume you were happy with your dining experience?

mayota

Ok I hadn’t realised that. If your friend isn’t paying you should contact the restaurant and settle it. No need to drag it out.

FitzElla

I would probably pay for the €69 euro worth of drinks and forget about it myself. That is usually how it works when you order drinks in a restaurant or bar.

Strumms

You paid the bill that they issued you with.... you are under no legal obligation to audit it for mistakes or query it.

the error was theirs, therefore they can ask you to pay... ( poor practice in my view ) but they can’t legally make you in my opinion... Bill is a legal document, they issued you with one, you paid with tip... in the aftermath they realized an error.

Their focus should be on ensuring the errors are not repeated... investigation, retraining, added verification procedures for totals over xx euros, whatever...

I'd probably just offer the 39 euro and say you want your tip back to be honest if there asking for it.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973893#Comment_117973893

So members of the service staff should be penalised, sounds fair 😳

SnrInfant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973837#Comment_117973837

Hi, we genuinely didn't notice, just looked at the total. I will call them and pay it though, I just think they are being rude about it as they are quite horrible on the phone to my friend!

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973910#Comment_117973910

It sounds more like your friend was rude to them on the phone first. If they're bombarding him by calling daily, that means it wasn't sorted out and agreed to the first time they called. Your friend should have agreed to pay up at that point. I'm guessing your friend either said no to them or said he'd get back to them (and didn't), hence why they've had to resort to calling daily. I mean, you're even posting here asking whether you legally have to pay knowing that you still haven't paid them. If you're going to pay them, why prolong it further?

A mistake was made. Just pay up and move on. If you're unhappy with them, don't go there again.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973861#Comment_117973861

Not so simple, lets examine that theory. A customer was presented a detailed bill, presumably checks the bill, let's be generous and say they didn't notice no drinks were charged, pays with a Tip and leaves.

Let's not be generous and hypothetically, a customer does notice no drinks were charged for, what would you propose we call that 🤔

I'm not suggesting this is the case, but the restaurant could easily argue a deliberate attempt was made not to pay for goods and services supplied. There's a word for it but let's not go there.

frag420

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973910#Comment_117973910

Drop in and pay it with 5p coins...

callaway92

On the flip side, if you’re the restaurant would it not be worth just taking the hit now for fear of likely stopping a returning customer from ever coming back by pleading with them for the payment?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973910#Comment_117973910

And I completely understand it was a genuine mistake , I'm just quite surprised at some of the responses to be honest and I know , particularly in a group situation, bills not scrutinised.

My impression is a member of staff got into trouble and was frantically trying to resolve the matter under pressurefrom owner/manager etc . As we know, the sector is struggling but I'm glad the decent thing is being done 😏

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973963#Comment_117973963

Don't go there 😄 presume your referring to that clown in Alfies paying a staff member in 5cent coins, should be noted, NOT the first time that F*****r did that .

Mitch Connor

surprised GDPR hasn't been brought up.

They used contact information given specifically for Covid related matters for a matter not related to Covid. You can only use identifiable information for the purpose it was collected for.

On the general topic, I'd pay the missing money. Sure, its kinda annoying when you thought you had paid the money, but you ate the food and drank the drink. So pay for it.

Witcher

GDPR...Christ above

Just pay the bill for the items you consumed like a decent person.

Blanco100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974109#Comment_117974109

The poster is right, they should not be contacting a customer via information provided for these reasons. Thats a fact.

I would however pay them for their bill. No doubt it came out of someone elses pocket (be it a staff member who incorrectly handled the bill etc...) to cover the loss. Its the right thing to do.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973940#Comment_117973940

As a customer you pay a company what they request for those goods and or services. If you notice the bill is wrong and say nada ? I wouldn’t do that personally.. id highlight it.

that said what is the point of the customer checking the bill in detail in this scenario ? There wouldn’t have been any way to satisfactorily verify it’s accuracy given there were multiple people, multiple items and courses ordered over a duration of time...

the failure is on behalf of the business, not on behalf of the client ... there is no legal requirement on the behalf of a client of a business that they audit bills for errors. They paid what was requested of them... if the business was on point ‘they’ should have enabled the cashier to let the server take a look and verify, he / she could have said “ shît, we didn’t charge them for drinks”.

Chasing down people in their homes after the event isn’t kosher, it’s unprofessional and invasive .

Im thinking, “because of your incompetence you could have overcharged us as easily as undercharged us and now you are hassling us at home, because YOU made an error “...

as a business you’d need be wary, multiple people, relating that experience multiple times will lead to a bad rep and lost business.. I’m one of those people there I’d be diligent not to offer repeat custom but I would as a matter of course tell others about the negative experience.

You seem to be ignoring favourable comments with infantile attitude OP.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973940#Comment_117973940

they were presented with a bill and paid. Any attempt to paint it as some sort of criminal act on the part of the customer is nonsense.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974109#Comment_117974109

Ya it needs to be paid but it does raise the question re using the contact info provided for contact tracing for other purposes.

I believe the restaurant are on very dodgy ground there.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974144#Comment_117974144

In your opinion, and whilst I'm not for a second suggesting any criminality it could equally be a matter of civil law, I've simply explained your blanket opinion is certainly questionable and easily open to dispute albeit a matter such as this normally resolved amicably.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973861#Comment_117973861

You order goods, you owe for them. The fact that a mistaken bill is presented does not change that.

If an amended bill is presented, you are obliged to pay it. Some member of the staff may be in the position of being forced to pay it from his wages.

In my experience, bills should be checked to ensure additional items are not being added in. If you had done this there would

have noticed you were being under-charged. It is similar to being given too much change. keeping more change than you are entitled to is theft.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974149#Comment_117974149

It could easily be argued the establishment got the details from a booking, enquiry etc .

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117973940#Comment_117973940

What argument could they make that 'a deliberate attempt was made not to pay for goods and service supplied' when they supplied the bill for the goods and services and the bill was paid?

head82

Would it not have been wiser for the restaurant to offset the €30 tip against the €69 drinks bill? Ok, the staff loose out on the tip and the restaurant reduces the loss on the drinks but it would also lessen the potential loss of future custom and and the subsequent 'bad mouthing' from a disgruntled customer that comes with it.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974198#Comment_117974198

Isn't it illegal to deduct mistakes from wages?

If it were me, I'd pay the amount less the tip given. That shouldn't be using Covid contact tracing information for the purposes of tracking down customers though. I suspect that they wouldn't be as diligent in tracking you down had the mistake been in their favour.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974149#Comment_117974149

I agree here what is stopping them texting deals or anything. Also anything thing to note how do they know what customer has what bill. To the OP I would pay. You know it was the groups bill

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974198#Comment_117974198

No, the bill is the legal document, it’s an invoice, the menu with the actual prices isn’t. If I reconcile the bill I’m issued, I’m done.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974142#Comment_117974142

I thinkthe OP is of the thinking of paying but hoping there is a reason not to pay

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974184#Comment_117974184

well you did suggest criminality with a not so subtle nod and a wink. What civil cause of action do you think the restaurant has?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974198#Comment_117974198

so if you are given more change than you are entitled to and do not notice that would constitute theft?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974233#Comment_117974233

They settled the invoice given.

The drinks were not on that bill.

A separate invoice is issued for the drinks.

Your reasoning is faulty. Perhaps if the drinks were on the bill at an incorrect price then you may have a point but that is not what appears to have happened. They got drinks, the drinks were not on the bill, at no point has the customer paid anything for those drinks so the liability for the drinks still exists between the supplier and the company.

The OP wants to weasel out of the bill but there isn't much debate to be had here, they got the drinks and did not pay for them, they are still liable for the drinks.

ohnonotgmail

the restaurant also has the issue (apart from the incorrect use of the covid tracking information) that the drink was consumed by multiple people. The person they contacted is not responsible for drinks consumed by others. The restaurants ability to get payment for the drinks is severely limited.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974312#Comment_117974312

No, because intention is an element of theft.

"a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it."

Based on the assumption of course that you genuinely did not notice. If you did notice the extra change and said nothing it would indeed be theft. A theft that would be incredibly difficult to prove, but a theft all the same.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058211599/underpaid-restaurant-bill

I'd be very wary, as a business, from using COVID tracking information to contact customers.

A booking number? Work away but accept that you may be told to "Feck off, I paid the bill I was given"

The number presented and kept for the specific reason of HSE Track and Trace? Under no circumstances use it for any other purpose

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974320#Comment_117974320

Surely the person who made the booking has contracted with the restaurant, so the liability lies there.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974324#Comment_117974324

an assumption that the prosecution is obliged to prove.

SunnySundays

No matter what the legal position is, I think it's really miserable to behave this way.

The drink were consumed. The hospitality industry has suffered more than most during covid and continues to do so. They are struggling to get staff and business still hasn't returned to pre covid levels.

Just pay the bill.

Henry Ford III

If you owe them money why not just pay it?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974342#Comment_117974342

Sure. Thats why I said "A theft that would be incredibly difficult to prove, but a theft all the same."

irishgrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974109#Comment_117974109

Not sure what the "GDP...Christ above" comment adds to a post in the "Legal Discussion".

GDPR is absolutely an issue here. The provision of the telephone number is clearly and exclusively for the use of Covid / close contact reasons only and is required by law. To use it for any other reason eg Marketing / Promotions / Debt collection is opening up the business to a world of potential pain.

To the OP: I would probably paid the bill. Or specifically pay the balance, minus the tip, if you so desire. Once paid I would then inform them that you are reporting them to the DPC.

JimmyAlfonso

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974366#Comment_117974366

Come on now it's blatantly obvious they knew the drinks weren't added to the bill at the time. We're all adults here and we all have calculate a ballpark figure the bill will be before it arrives, we may not check items it if it seems reasonable but in this instance it would have been obvious the minute the bill was presented to you that they forgot drinks. You and your mates simply thought you'd get away with it and paid and left.

Now I'm assuming with a €30 tip the bill was circa €200. In this case I think the restaurant should suck it up and use it as a learning moment for staff, the €69 in drink probably cost them only €20 and the means of contacting you were dubious.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974430#Comment_117974430

Not sure why you are quoting me, I was responding to a hypothetical about getting too much change back. Personally I think the OP's group knew full well the bill was short.

Regarding the tip, everybody assumes that the restaurant got the tip and have it to put against the bill, when its possible it was left as cash for the staff instead.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117974222#Comment_117974222

Exactly, short changed you by xx euros it wouldn’t be a phone call it would be SFA.. :)