What are your thoughts on the fertiliser price s for 2022

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986342#Comment_117986342

Good advice.

Maize, beet, wholecrop etc have the ability to cushion against meal price and stretch grazing rotation. With barley well north of €200/t fodder crops etc become quite attractive…not to mention how important they can be when the grass doesn’t grow. A fodder crisis, by the law of averages, can’t be too far away either.

Gawddawggonnit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986421#Comment_117986421

Are you dairy calf to beef Bass?

Gawddawggonnit

Cows first cut is being planted now. 15kg/ha of clover DD into maize stubble. No fert whatsoever. It should yield somewhere between 2.5 and 5.5tDM/ha. Then maize will be planted directly afterwards, again with no fertilizer whatsoever. Clover seed cost €19.6/ha plus the cost of drilling and rolling. Maize seed will cost around €65-85/ha plus the cost of planting & herbicide. Herbicide for maize is around €25/ha. Maize should yield around 20-22t/ha. That’s how we roll here..

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986342#Comment_117986342

Have Maize to harvest next week and wc wheat going straight back in .Maize grown on contract from next year ….Maize won’t be fed till cow’s calve in spring and will be buffered right through to July ,did it this year worked really well…lots grass silage and bales so will close paddocks as normal ,getting out in spring not an issue here within reason ….won’t be afraid of feeding cows concentrate either …another big plus heading into this winter I don’t have to hanging over me

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986542#Comment_117986542

👍👍tbf dwag lots of us are doing variations of what I outlined above

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986561#Comment_117986561

Aye and would you sow clover in Ireland today after maize harvest?

you can grow maize with out plastic, we can’t, another of your benefits

tbf if I had maze stubble I’d be sowing winter wheat or something in behind it

but I don’t so I’ll stick to what I’m at

GrasstoMilk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986547#Comment_117986547

A sizeable farm in south Wexford went dairy a few years ago because the yields kept dropping following P recks advice

soil type did not suit it, it needed the plough

Mooooo

Dawg, grand saying what your doing in France. We haven't had a day without rain in the last 2 weeks, with another possible 100ml due in the next 60 hours, and maize harvest only starting in plenty places. You went to France and and have built an excellent business and gained plenty knowledge in the process and I admire you for it. But its what can be done here is what we need to focus on. Its fine saying what can be done on 100ha can be done on 1, but if you need to make a living/ pay debt that talk is too dismissive tbh.

newholland mad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986594#Comment_117986594

Whole crop wheat won't be cheap either, 180 units ,chemicals all increasing and contractors starting to look for increases due to fuel and machinery costs rocketing

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986837#Comment_117986837

Cheaper than Maize and works with rotation ….also don’t want to just leave that ground bare for winter ….will go back to grass snd clover once wheat comes off….and also it’s a good buffer for cows at grass

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986556#Comment_117986556

No store to beef. The reason I went was because it's was mostly Friesian calves. A few stupid things stood out to me. They were good to do the calves and get them to decent weight at 18-20 months. The system like all present calf to beef systems is trying to get calves finished at 20 ish months.

This lad sold the HE&AA stores at 18 months. He finished as many Friesians as he could off grass. I think the averaged 270 ish kgs That makes sense. He will do ok this and last Autumn as store and beef prices were not substantially below mid summer prices.

More FR's were slaughtered out of the shed. These averaged around 300 ish kg. All research is showing that feeding costs exceed weight gained. The last of the FR would have been mostly P type cattle IMO if they hung the best of them. These were slaughtered during May at about an average weight of 310-315 kgs at about 11-1150 euro of I remember right. These would have been great cattle in July/ August, another 2-3 months grass would have had them killing 360+ kgs average. They have hit 1400-1450 euro. The ones killed out of shed would have probably killed around that weight in June/ July and the better confirmation would have got them into over 1450 as well.

It was all straight down the track with Teagasc. Having said that I rang my own advisor after it and he was a bit perturbed about the rate of N applied and he taught as well the bullocks slaughered in May should have been carried further.

Dawg, a few points first we are not really a tillage country. Oats is about the only thing that grows well without excessive sprays and it is not a great feed cereal. I do not have a problem with a grass based system. There is two issues, pushing very high stocking rates on midsized platforms to get scale. This pushes you into having to keep grass growing and you end up with a large amount of bales off paddocks. Milk has managed to sustain this cost. Beef cannot.

The biggest problem may well be the availability of fertlizer not the price of it. I would not assume that feedlot type operations have all there feedstuff sitting in the yards at present. I think quite the opposite. A lot of them depend on cashflow to keep going and but an awful lot of there requirements 4-8 weeks in advance. Ya some may have barns of straw and pits of maize silage. However a lot of them get it straight from importers. If fertlizer is very scarce next spring and crops are not planted, the price of grain will rise exponentially as merchants, farmers and importers store it for the longterm price rise.

Another question is if we go down the tillage route at what stage will the golden colour go out of the butter.

mf240

If there is no difference between ireland and france, why did you move

blackdog1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986561#Comment_117986561

Priced clover here Dawg it's €10 a kg that's €150 a hectare plus direct drilling cost . Also where are you getting your p and k's from? Are you spreading slurry or dung on it?

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987164#Comment_117987164

I would agree with your sentiments on the question but dawg has said before he moved because of the price and availability of land If I remember correctly 🤔

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987251#Comment_117987251

Duck shite apparently

Timmaay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986980#Comment_117986980

Anyone use forage rye as a break crop between maize crops?

yosemitesam1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987251#Comment_117987251

Short term annual clover seed (crimson etc) is cheaper than white clover

Danzy

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/russia-is-pumping-less-natural-gas-to-europe-as-nord-stream-2-nears-completion.html

An article from August.

Shed loads of cash going East and Putin offering solutions in return for concessions.

They saw an opportunity and took it.

The EU leadership might come up with a solution to the current crisis in 5 years time.

Fanofconnacht

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986251#Comment_117986251

There is no harm in ringing suppliers but you can expect that they will tell you that they have no idea what prices will be and don't know what supply volume will be. They will take your order for whatever quantity you want but will not commit on price and will not guarantee volume.

Suppliers get a margin for supplying a sales and distribution service to manufacturer. Their margin will be pretty constant no matter sales price. They do not make killings with high prices or lose their shirts with low prices. The manufacturer manages manufacturing inputs and decides on market prices. Supplier will not take risks like committing to prices \ volumes unless their supplier (i.e. manufacturer) does likewise. I doubt that manufacturers are doing this with current gas prices \ shut plants

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987686#Comment_117987686

I know this and you know this but 99% of farmers currently in Ireland expect they will have zero issue sourcing fertilizer in the spring and it might be a 100-150 dearer then last year, of the phone to a big tillage man I know well and started talking about fert I asked him had he it sourced and yes have nitrogen and will buy compounds in the spring, totally oblivious to the sh**tshow that will likely occur, he grows alot of winter wheat and he remarked if he can't get compounds in the spring for his winter crops they won't be worth cutting...

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987489#Comment_117987489

I doubt it. Seed is hard to get and expensive. It strips residual N out if the soil and leaves nothing behind unless it ploughed in. It starts to go to seed from late April on

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987489#Comment_117987489

Looked into it but seed availability snd price against it

blackdog1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987395#Comment_117987395

Well whatever he's spreading we need to educate ourselves. The french are 20 years ahead of us on reducing nitrogen and while short term the gas problem and fertilizer prices might be sorted, long term were going to have to take a serious look at the French model and see what can be adapted to our situation. Obviously, not everything is going to work but we should be trialling what we think can now. Im sure Dawg pits clover and uses it as a cheap protein source in a diet? that should be trialled here. Growing crops with just dung application should be trialled here and lots more im sure.

K.G.

A good bit of panic creeping into this thread now.we ve always had problems in farming and this is no different. Hopefully the thing will affect global and if it does we ll be fine. The danger is if there are inequality s globally we could lose out.steady the ship .figure out strategies to deal with it and move on.as for farming in France, plenty of environmental problems there too and as far as I know we still the second best for water quality in Europe. But open to correction

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117985748#Comment_117985748

Sorry to nitpick but that quote is 1 more cow, 1 more sow, 1 more acre under the plough. ( an exhortation to increase production during war years ). Would anyone agree with the opinion that rather than fertilizer now being too dear it has actually been too cheap back the years, thus delaying new methods being attempted before now as it was too easy to sow monocultures of ryegrass any plenty of nitrogen. Spread very little myself but circumstances allow me to make that choice

straight

There will be alot of cold homes throughout europe between now and spring. Something will have to be done. Food shortages are bound to occur soon and I'm glad I'll have a clear conscience on that matter. I would say between China heading into recession, energy crisis and impending food crisis a global recession is likely. That should sort out alot of demand also. All in all I think I'm beyond caring at this stage.

Gawddawggonnit

I never suggested that ye should grow maize etc. I outlined what WE grow, and the AMOUNT of fertilizer we use. It’s up to ye and Teagasc to figure out a system going forward. The resistance to change is sizable. Looks like there’ll be plenty selling entitlements and going off grid…

I got offered Yara 33.3N bb toplift for €505 and Lithan (Lithuanian) 34.4 for €460. Spoke to lads at home and another merchant, and both said immediately to take it. Seems that they can’t even get a quote, not to mind supplies. Rang at 5 before closing and it was all sold…they only had 1000t of each, but it shifted fair fast. Maybe Jay is right?

Markcheese

The thing is though - this is a blip - there's no shortage of gas at the wells( at the moment ) , it's a shortage of delivered supply in Europe and Asia , as soon as supply increases it'll be business as usual - that could take a year or 2 though ...(although I could see prices being a bit higher ,) ...

What'll be interesting is if it changes mindset - theres loads of guys who could make more profit and have an easier life changing systems and using less fertilizer,

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991330#Comment_117991330

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/fertiliser-prices-voodoo-economics-playing-out/

Well researched article here, by our esteemed farming media, anyone thinking the normal market forces are in play just look at the inflation rates in shipping freight prices are 10x in alot of cases pre covid rates that's voodoo economics at its finest that still hasn't resolved itself

K.G.

What regime is the most fertiliser efficient, multicut or large bulk cuts.on your average grass swards by how much does fertiliser increase yeild--100%?

Say my name

Correcting all nutrients macro and micro is key.

There's an excellent grass grower in my locality. Neighbours, everyone is in awe of his skills. Has cows out in December, back out in January, etc.

He got/gets a detailed soil report done.

It came back low in selenium. One agronomist/livestock expert recommended there's no point spreading selenium on soil. Just have it in the minerals fed. He didn't listen and spread it in March this year. He remarked it made a big difference in grass growth and N efficiency.

I already thought he was good but he must be hitting another level if he says it's improved again. 😀

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991822#Comment_117991822

Interesting question, but what I do know is that you need grass to grow grass, so overgrazing or cutting crops too tight definitely effects grass growth and no amount of fertilizer can compensate that.

Timmaay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991658#Comment_117991658

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/07/europe-is-now-a-hostage-to-russia-over-energy.html

Russia to the rescue lol, but apparently the USA are salty over that deal.

kevthegaff

Would ye take can at 385 a ton

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992661#Comment_117992661

I would …..

kevthegaff

Only was allowed a few ton collected, it all helps I suppose

jaymla627

Chatting local merchant this morning and he's fielding calls from lads he's never dealt with before looking for fert, he was extremely bullish two weeks ago when I bought of him that price/supply would sort itself now, different story now....

Most interesting story was a local tillage man who needed 200 ton of fert that always dealt with his co-op trying to buy of him, its going to get very messy from here on out trying to source fert

kevthegaff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117997108#Comment_117997108

Ya alad I normally buy fert off wasnt in great mood and was saying farmers didnt buy much this year?? Be interesting come the new year

Markcheese

Surprised there hasn't been more leadership from teagasc , farm organisations or even the processors/ co-ops on what's likely to be available this spring and what the likely prices are going to be for milk ect.. , and what if anything can be done on individual farms to deal with low availability ..

JustJoe7240

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992011#Comment_117992011

While I don't question your man's grass management abilities. At the end of the day, he's part of a fraction of farmers able to do that due to ground conditions, He could have all the grass in the world, but it's no use if the cows are going down to their knees in the ground.

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117997466#Comment_117997466

Weather trumps all.

Gillespy

Weather and soil type trumps all.

I Was in Solohead in the mid 2000s. August time the farm was a sea of grass and clover. It was as impressive a farm as I ever saw. Teenager mad for farming, I tried replicating it here. Reseeding more than planned and broadcasting clover seed out as was mentioned at the time. Came ok but a few wet summers finished it. It's still there though as it shows itself in droughts. Solohead they class as heavy but that is relative. Clover is a bit like solar power. Awesome when the sun shines.

Slurry treatment should be a big topic. What's out there aside from salesman talk and anecdotes. No good talking to two fellas, one says it works great and another calls it snake oil.

On slurry also, will the price of trailing shows and dribble bars go up now too.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117998508#Comment_117998508

Best post on here in a long time it's all relative

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117998508#Comment_117998508

Yes, I'm interested in learning more about slurry treatments.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117997442#Comment_117997442

Number one they're not bothered it's not there Money at risk

Number two they as a collective and also us as a collective haven't a clue where things are going and where they are going to end up

K.G.

If fertiliser is scarce next spring it raises interesting questions for a coop.who gets it and on what basis,loyalty, prompt payers,scale and other business with the coop,members/non members, within area or outside area.

farawaygrass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992011#Comment_117992011

he spread selenium in the like of selenistart? There is only 0.002% selenium in that product. Would that be enough to make such a difference?

Say my name

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000239#Comment_118000239

I don't know what he spread.

He's always been into the micronutrients testing. And for all the criticism of teagasc in quarters he's been able to call on the advice of the soil 'experts' in johnstown castle.

His latest test wasn't a teagasc one tho.

He was light years ahead of the locals here moving to calcium lime and balancing up. When all of us around when we'd ring for "lime" and not knowing any different we'd have magnesium lime delivered.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118000287#Comment_118000287

The selenium from Gouldings does work to be fair, 1st pic is 2nd cut that got normal can and 2nd pic is 3rd cut that got two bags of selenigraze

Anyone doing forage mineral analysis able to beat my molybdenum scores

blue5000

How do you treat for copper with that high level of Mo?