Female James Bond on the horizon.

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925683#Comment_117925683

I think you are projecting a bit. I'm not offended. It's the folks wetting their knickers about a changing the Bond role to a woman (as opposed to a time-travelling man) that seem to be offended.

L1011

I can't see this being anything beyond a female 00 agent in the same film universe. Gender-swapping the Bond character just won't work, particularly with the more recent movies having the "Bond is a relic out of touch with the new way of working" subtext.

Mister Vain

They've already started casting for the villain.

Riddle101

I echo Daniel Craig's sentiments about this issue that there doesn't need to be a female James Bond, just create other female roles. I've always thought this myself. Create a new female character who is a 00 agent and give her a spin-off series or something. No need to gender swap the role.

buried

I think the vast majority of people ridiculing this notion are laughing at the fact that, once again, the mainstream Hollywood milieu have no ideas how to create any new ideas for any sort of new characters or stories and are just trying to re-hash completely out of date old stories and characters into the realm of divisive modern clickbait trends that will probably generate more money than the shoddy sequential motion picture product they eventually release. The modern Bond films are complete rubbish. Women should be outraged that they are even being considered to take up the role of this character who basically went out of its sell by date after the fourth film.

Dr. Bre

If this female bond sleeps with a lot of people will she be Double Ho 7?

riclad

the character is male, like superman, there would be no point in making a superman movie with a female in the lead, theres plenty of female superheroines like ms marvel .showbusiness is a business, most films are not made to present a political viewpoint,.james bond is a fantasy, most spys just collect information ,listen to phone call,s or download data from the internet .they don,t carry guns or carry weird gadgets like watchs with lasers in them.its quite possible to make blockbuster action films with a female lead character, like alien, wonder woman ,black widow etc if the script is good and theres good action scenes .james bond is a sterotype , he,s male, british, he,s a spy who likes women ,who always wins and defeats the bad guys .change any of those things and the concept falls apart.

they have a good pr team, every young british male actor who has success is rumoured to be bond ,eg is actor x the next bond.

magicbastarder

speaking as someone who wouldn't consider them a bond fan, i hope they do it. would at least give a bit of life back to it. and it'd be great fun watching the toys coming out of the prams.

also, they've retconned stuff into more recent movies that would be nonsensical in earlier movies, and there's always been the debate about whether 007 is just a codename for the latest agent to take the role anyway.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926688#Comment_117926688

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924964#Comment_117924964

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924853#Comment_117924853

hmmm

chrissb8

In general, I don't think it does much for anyone when it comes down to "women can do it too". Yeah, they can, no bother or news there, it's just a bit reductive and needlessly pandering, maybe even condescending.

It's undermining to have a character created that was centred around a man, that then has a woman playing the role next. Why not just make a great woman spy-espionage film franchise on its own. It becomes this, can the woman being casted live up to the male actors that have come before? it becomes a loaded thing with baggage attached to it.

In fact, it takes away from the actor trying to do a job as they become defined on their gender. That is the novelty of doing something like rebooting what was a male cast series before with an exclusive female-led cast. It becomes "its this film but with WOMEN". And I can't think of anything more condescending or possibly infuriating.

From a storytelling point of view, it doesn't make sense either. A character is built on certain characteristics and becomes distinctive to an audience who have bought into a character. That gets taken away in the process of doing such things as changing the gender and we the audience are asked to open our minds to a reinvention. How about just a new character then? Is that not just more simple than simply "disrupting expectations".

I expect James Bond to be a man, because that is what I have bought into, the handsome charming spy who woos women while fighting henchmen in a tuxedo. Just like if someone was to reboot Buffy The Vampire Slayer, which I am a huge fan of, as a man. The character has been established and while some things are changed and chopped there is a quintessential essence that remains intact. Without that, it's just a new character with the same name.

If Alien was rebooted and Ripley was a man would that work? I know I would in no way buy into it and ask why the hell not just an Alien film with a unique script and a male lead then.

It's a cheap obvious tactic that hits all the right blind right on buttons. Recast all they want but I will just turn off as in its own way it's sexist, undermining and terrible story telling for the reasons above.

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925838#Comment_117925838

That's not what I meant and you know it. It was an awful series with an awful character because they attempted to make Batgirl a direct replacement for batman (even having her discover the cave, suit etc). The facts are it was shockingly bad because they stripped batman of everything that made HIM a compelling character by changing the gender.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926001#Comment_117926001

Why not 00X.... exactly, create a new character, a spin off, if it’s a success, then she could appear in 007 films playing that character, maybe even Bond stepping across as a supporting role in the spin off...

every 007 is James Bond... James is a guy... James is played by a multitude of actors.... he transcends time, generations but not gender.

its no longer a James Bond film if there is no James Bond... and the lead character is called Fred, Martin, Tony, Alexis, Angus, Ann-Marie, Pauline...

Female lady women here - and quite feminist in certain contexts.

A female Bond would be utter pandering imo. Think deeper than just assuming misogyny when the idea is objected to. People can have opinions on such ideas which aren't sinister. Bond's machismo is integral to the stories.

Dr. Who being a woman was down to the good doctor being a shapeshifter - there is logic to it - but Bond being a woman? Tokenism. The Ghostbusters remake - yeah there could be female ghostbusters, but it just felt forced and clumsy. Why not a remake with women and men?

seenitall

I’m a James Bond films fan (meaning I have a slightly more than passing knowledge of the franchise - but not obsessive either) but I don’t take it too seriously, especially since they’ve started making a hash of things from Skyfall on (in my humble). It’s not really James Bond to me any more, they’ve gone too dark, too psychological, and too chamber music with it. I mean I’ll still watch it for old times’ sake, but meh. Let them do their worst now, and it’ll probably be better films than the last two, and with more laughs as well. A woman, a black man, a child, whatever. It has stopped being Bond some time ago.

Sonics2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924969#Comment_117924969

To clarify, I think just making Bond a woman for the sake of it is pointless, because in a lot of cases it is just badly done. While it isn't canon, it's been strongly hinted at that the title of Bond and 007 is just that, and not a person.

As for your comparison, you could really have come up with some much better ones. Like having a white guy play Luther instead of Idris Elba. Steve Biko was a real person, with a direct impact on apartheid in South Africa, so no, it would be daft to cast a white guy to play him.

Let's take Sherlock Holmes as an example, his characterization has been changed up in tonnes of ways over the years, especially if you look at Robert Downey Jnr's portrayal.

The fact is characters get a bit stale over time, and while I'm sure that any re-casting would turn out pretty badly done, it's really not a big deal to change up Bond from being generic white action guy to generic white action woman or any other combination.

Mister Vain

I actually think the Daniel Craig Bond films are the best, apart from Quantum Of Solace. They're more gritty, unlike say Pierce Brosnan who could fall down the edge of mountain and there wouldn't be a scratch on him. Joe Rogan said it best, "the difference between Daniel Craig and all the other actors who have played Bond, is that Daniel Craig looks like he has been punched in the face a thousand times."

seenitall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927425#Comment_117927425

No, I mean both Skyfall and Spectre. For me, Bond stopped being what it was around then. Yes, I know that the general concensus is that Skyfall is a good Bond, but that’s where I differ, as I’ve said. This is all a matter of individual taste and opinion. As far as bad Bonds go, yes of course, there are a lot of tacky and ridiculous moments or elements throughout the canon, but they are a given for their time, and all the more enjoyable for that.

Re: Daniel Craig, he’d be one of my 2 favourite Bonds, Casino Royale absolute favourite as the Bond film, perhaps partly because action is just so top notch. But then by Skyfall, the films’ scope became just too small and too psychology/drama driven, so IMO that’s where the sharp detour from the general feel of the movies began (much sharper than the change toward grittiness which happened with the introduction of Craig, and which I loved).

magic_murph

The reality is watching Daniel Craig fight 3-4 guys at once is laughable but somewhat, by a tiny margin, believable.

Watching a female bond do the same would be a comedy show

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927518#Comment_117927518

Jason Bourne put the wind up the producers, so they had to modernise Bond after Brosnan's turn at it which was more in the old style vein(Brosnan could do gritty well enough, but his Bond went for the pretty boy suave angle). I thought Casino Royale was great too and Craig really pulled it off. Though for me the problem with him is he's too gritty. He just looks like a thug most of the time. I think Connery still rocks the role even after all this time and the old fashioned feel of the films because alone among the Bond actors he could go from a believable murderous thug throttling the life out of someone to a dinner jacket dandy discussing vintage champagne from scene to scene. Very few can pull that off. Actually of the names mentioned I think Elba could pull that off. IMHO if Connery were alive and a young man today he would make a fantastic Bond even with a modern script.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926944#Comment_117926944

Or maybe it was just a crap series

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927722#Comment_117927722

This. And it depends on the audience it's aimed at too. An audience it's not aimed at will come away with a different view. A few years back in the TV forum hereabouts there was a thread on the Supergirl series and some complaining about stuff in it. I had a watch of a couple of episodes and came to the conclusion it was aimed at an audience of little girls and tweens and aimed well enough from what I could see. It wasn't aimed at a bunch of nerdy older blokes.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927785#Comment_117927785

I can't wait for the uproar from adult Star Trek fans ripping apart the new kids cartoon series that clearly is for kids.

Moaning about "canon" and "in world" rules on a show for primary school kids

AllGunsBlazing

Sales of sport watches and aftershave must not have met expectations after the last movie

generic_throwaway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926944#Comment_117926944

This is confusing: are you suggesting that Batman's backstory etc. only works if he is male? Or did they change the backstory as well, and that was what made the character not compelling (rather than the change of gender)?

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927877#Comment_117927877

It's not confusing. They tried to make Batman a woman and the show was so bad even the cast quit rather than destroy their careers.

magicbastarder

the show being bad and making batman a woman are two different things.

are you saying the show was that bad because they made batman a woman, or was it bad on its own (lack of) merits?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927836#Comment_117927836

Cringiest lines in Casino Royale were when the love interest said "Rolex" and Jimmy comes back with "no Omega", "nice" sez she. One of the most hamfisted product placements ever. 😂 Well Omega watches were throwing big cash at the producers so...

Bit of a difference from the first outings back in the 60's. Bond only wore a Rolex because a) it was a very British brand almost unknown outside Britain and her commonwealth and b) Connery didn't have a watch so the director gave him his personal Rolex and stuck it on a cheap nylon band because Sean was a bigger lad and the original strap didn't fit him(which led to endless interwebs nerdism over the "correct" band he used). Sean also wore his own watch a gold plated Gruen and nobody knows about them. Well a small gold plated dress watch doesn't satisfy the portly office men who dream of being a secret agent.

Rolex didn't pay for that kinda thing back then. Aston Martin resisted even giving the production a car so the DB5 was nearly a no show. It was only in the 70's where the product placement stuff really took off and the flics were given cash by brands like Seiko, Pulsar, Tag, Lotus, etc. If someone wants the most used onscreen "Bond watch" then trawl ebay for a 70's or 80's digital Seiko. 2-300 quid should cover it. 😁These days there's barely a frame of film that isn't tweaked for product placement. It's a giant advert with a plot, dolly birds and explosions.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927177#Comment_117927177

To be fair, Bond needed to grow up a little. You just cannot do a Connery era Bond any more and a Moore era Bond will slip into parody too easily and that seat is already taken by Austin Powers. Plus the bland Bonds that came after won't really work nowadays either.

So the Craig era "serious" Bond was going in the right direction as far as I was concerned. 'Casino Royale' was probably one of the best Bond films ever made. But they kinda shit the bed with the last one, though, because they tried to fall back on the old formula a bit too much and making Blofeld Bond's brother was just an awful idea.

I don't expect the next movie to be anything special either however.

I understand the difficulties that the producers are in with regards to the next iteration though. It must be very difficult to try and figure out where to go next with this. I mean the whole thing has really run out of steam.

fryup

a mixed race bisexual woman would be ideal

Thandie Newton maybe?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927461#Comment_117927461

I actually liked 'Quantum of Solace' (what a dumb title though) and I, too, think Craig is the best Bond so far. Bond is essentially an assassin and Craig fits the bill better than anyone. It's just a pity that 'Spectre' undid everything that came before it.

But Bond is just stupid anyway. In reality spies are low key and rely on stealth and subterfuge to do their work. If Bond was real he'd have blown his cover after one job and never be able to work again. 😄 There are good spy movies out there, like 'The Spy that Came in from the Cold' or the George Smiley TV shows with Alec Guinness, but most people would find that kind of thing pretty boring these days.