Severe wear on outside edge of passenger rear tyre only

BlakeS94

Hi all,

As title states, my girlfriends car has severe tyre wear on the outside edge of only the passenger rear tyre, I don't know what could be causing this but the last 2 tyre changes and the same thing has happened to the same spot of the same corner.

Car is tracking perfectly straight, tyre pressures are checked and corrected regularly and are never 2-3 psi from where they should be.

Haven't really checked it out just yet, by I'm guessing suspension defects, could bad shocks and/or coil springs cause this kind of wear? Or maybe a trailing arm?

Car is a 2010 Suzuku Alto SZ4.

BlakeS94

Here's what it looks like

Xcellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916602#Comment_117916602

No pic attached

BlakeS94

Shock absorber on that side looks like it's leaking a lot, could that be the cause?

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916609#Comment_117916609

Pic wouldn't attach, took another of the shock absorber and it did attach above. Could this be why tyre is facked?

mk7r

You say its tracking straight but have you any results from a 4 wheel alignment? The wheel could be toed in or have positive camber

phelixoflaherty

Used to happen on our Renault Modus.

One lad said it was Roundabouts.

The tyres were narrow enough for a tall car like it

The picture is not related by the issue, only leaking strut, rust and something more leaking. If something does not rubbing the tyre (like liner) then you need wheel alignment. Why tyre shop did not address the issue for you? or you just ignored their sales pitch? Look closer the entire rear passenger side suspension. If something need to replacement, it is right thing to do before alignment.

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917683#Comment_117917683

Don't have any printed results but it was 4 wheel aligned at the last tyre change and all was good

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917905#Comment_117917905

There's plenty Of clearance nothing is rubbing the tyre outside edge. The worn shock definitely couldn't be causing it??

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117917716#Comment_117917716

Tyres are quite narrow and car is small but narrow and tall aswell. She takes corners fast enough but would that not cause other Tyres to wear also? Other 3 corners are perfect.

funkey_monkey

If it was due to a roundabout I would expect the wear to be on the front left not the rear - unless she does drifting around the roundabouts in her Suzuki Alto. Should be very little wear on the rear of one of those things, so something is obviously wrong if it is wearing incorrectly - so get a mechanic to check the suspension at that corner and then do an alignment.

Would be good to see a photo of it though.

Just a thought if it is evenly worn around the circumference then it's likely that something in the suspension is bent - it's a fairly simple setup at the back of the Alto so has she whacked a kerb/pothole or anything like that?

A worn out damper (which is what it really is - the spring is the shock absorber 😁) wouldn't cause a regular wear pattern all around - it'd be high/low spots.

A pic would help.

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117918881#Comment_117918881

I'll try to upload another pic of the tyre later this afternoon, it's evenly worn around the outside edge, just looks like a bald tyre on the outside edge all around it.

She hasn't hit off anything. I had a quick look underneath yesterday everything looks fine except for that leaking damper but I don't want to be changing things and guesswork

BlakeS94

Here's the photo, there should be 4 lines of tread.

This is alignment problem. Like I said before, look carefully the rest of the suspension before alignment. Remember, that car is is currently very dangerous and do not go to highway.

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920103#Comment_117920103

It could be an alignment problem, after researching it, it does seem like a knackered shock absorber can throw out the alignment and you could end up with uneven wear like in the photo. I think I'll change the shocks, tyre, and get another 4 wheel alignment done for her, and watch that tyre again after its had some wear to check if its even.

Typically if something fails on suspension, around that area can many suspension parts fail prematurely.

sundodger5

That wear looks to severe to be just the shock.

Something bent or broken is my guess.

If you stand back and look at the car from the rear does the wheel look off camber wise?

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922799#Comment_117922799

My guess is that it's been wearing for a long time that's why it's so bad, I've looked at the car from behind lying down on my stomach and left and right side look identical to the naked eye, also looked down the car from the roof through the tyre and camber looks the same left and right sides, again to the naked eye but nothing looks off to me, I may lift the car at the back, remove both wheels and compare to further investigate. I'm lost really.

sundodger5

Jack it up and at least give the wheel a good wiggle to see if you have any play in bearings etc.

I see no feathering on the tyre so i think more camber than tracking.

9935452

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920533#Comment_117920533

Watch the boys do the alignment. Get a printout too.

I know some lads will tell you its perfect but afterwards you find out some parts for adjusting it are seized so they dont bother adjusting it.

That and its within tolerance. It can be out but still within spec.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092995#Comment_118092995

Yea I had one fella tell me it was "grand". Found myself stranded on a motorway in the backarse of Wales a few weeks later with one tyre empty and another about to go

Cass

9935452 - I know some lads will tell you its perfect but afterwards you find out some parts for adjusting it are seized so they dont bother adjusting it.

That and its within tolerance. It can be out but still within spec.

Had this recently with two cars. One was aligned, but they did not straighten the steering wheel so when the steering wheel was straighened, on the drive home, the car would veer left. When I got home I used a string line and adjusted the track rod ends myself. Car is now straight and aligned. Just monitoring rear wheels for excessive wear to be sure.

The second was a different story. Wasn't tracking right at all after the alignment so I got under it to check. The eccentric bolts on the rear suspension arms were not just rusted but utterly seized. I was in a pit, with a 3 foot pull bar and could not get even an 1/8th of a turn. I ended up using a mini grinder with cutting disc and recipricating saw to remove the bolts, cutting between the bush and inside section of the sub frame where the arms sit into so as not to damage the "ears" that the eccentric washers use to adjust. Once out, the arms, I seen the remnants of the bolts were still seized within the bush of the arm so I ordered two new arms, with bushes, and new eccentric bolts & washers.

Went back to the garage and asked him why he claimed the car was aligned when he could not have possibly moved the arms. He claimed they were within tolerances. Checked the print out (Hunter machine) and compared it to Ford's settings and while "just in", they were within tolerances. The problem being, other than the lazy so-and-so in the garage who couldn't move the bolts so just claimed it was done, is Ford's tolerances are so broad as to be laughable.

Goes to show the garage might have the right machine, but its the spanner monkey that needs to know if "within tolerance" is good enough.

Donald Trump

I was going to suggest that if the excessive wear was happening on the passenger side of your gf's car then you might just need to go on a diet ......

(joke of course)

Cass

Ooooooh.......

Moanin

Check tryre pressure also in all tyres

FGR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118092995#Comment_118092995

This! It's infuriating the amount of shops that have expensive equipment but don't know how to use it.

On a few occasions I've seen the operators put in the wrong model of car so they put the whole alignment out completely.

It's very important to go to a place that will not only let you see the process but also give you a printout. I drive about an hour to get to a place that has a Hunter Machine and does the job with ocd precision.

9935452

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118102966#Comment_118102966

A friend of mine used to work in a big chain . He told me a story about cars coming in and the adjustment bolts were seized. One of them would be pushing or pulling the wheels trying to get the car in spec. The other would quickly save the results.

Customer would get a printout on where the car was and there it is now after their so called adjustment .

I do agree that some lads cant seem to use their equipment .

When i got my car , i bought off a family friend . He was telling about the garage that used to service it .they used to take off the wheels , demount the tyres and reverse they . The tracking was out and the car was burning the outside of all the tyres. The tracking was out . First thing i did was get the car tracked which sorted that problem .

The garage werent able to track it properly so decided the best course of action was to reverse the tyres

Cass

@BlakeS94 With all the talk of alignment I wonder if the issue of suspension hasn't been lost?

It was mentioned above about making sure everything is in good and workig order before having alignment done. So look at the usual suspects such as control arms, bushings, drop links, ARBs, trailing arm bush, etc.

If any of these are worn and allowing the wheel to sit with what seems to be a toe issue then aligning them may temporarily sort the issue but will not fully correct it and will eventually start to wear again.

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106497#Comment_118106497

I have yet to have a look as I'm caught up in my own trouble with my cars exhaust as you know, id imagine all of those things will be easy enough to change on a small car like the Alto, if needs be

Cass

Most parts are cheap enough and barring access, I've no experience with an Alto, it shouldn't be a big headache.

I'd imagine a €100 - €150 would cover most parts.

BlakeS94

Access is quite good there isn't much in the way and components are small, car has minimal rust so bolts should come out easy,

She went ahead and booked her NCT for the end of the month, not realising the bald outer edge tyre will fail, and no point in putting just a tyre on it because it will just happen again, so I'll have to jack it up soon and have a look, changing the shocks is a given before anything else.

BlakeS94

Lifted the car up today and tried to move the suspension arm bushes with a long pry bar, they all tested well and they look in good shape too, no cracks, dry rot, I did notice that on that side of the car a piece of the chassis is completely missing? The car was crashed before it was bought as a first car many years ago for my girlfriend, this is to be affecting tracking.

Cass

Were they ever changed? If not then they need done regardless of how they appear. I've had my Vectra for almost 10 years and have changed all rubber/bushes at least twice in that time.

When you say a piece of the chassis is missing, can you elaborate? The bit you have highlighted in black, that is the "fixed arm" for to take the anti roll bar.

BlakeS94

None of them were ever changed, I understand rubber degrades over time but there isn't any excessive movement in them?

Yes I took two photos, the one that I highlighted in black is the rear drivers side, the other photo is the rear passenger side, which doesn't have the two components that I highlighted in the other photo, shouldn't they be the same on both sides?

Cass

BlakeS94 - None of them were ever changed, I understand rubber degrades over time but there isn't any excessive movement in them?

None that you can see which is different to how it'll act under load/driving. I know its a small car, and fairly light, but its respective. The rubbers/bushes usually have a predictable shelf life.

For example my Vectra I only recently done the rear trailing arm bushes. First time in almost ten years and while there were no wear signs on the tyres, no knocking noises from the rear, and no other tell tale signs I knew they were old enough to warrant replacing. On the car they seemed solid and still functional. Off the car, and compared to the new ones they were rubbish.

My upper and lower (additional) control arms last about 3.5 to 4 years at best. They aren't know for lasting long and with the cotunry roads I travel it speeds up their failure even though I only do 5,000 miles per year. I've replaced these 3 times so far.

Also the fact you have uneven wear would suggest something is worn. Not trying to push you towards a load of work, and not suggesting this is the cause of your problem, but at 11 years+ they have, imo, reached the end of their life and replacing them and other rear bushes/rubbers along with a new 4 wheel alignment will most definitely fix either current issues or prevent future ones.

BlakeS94 - ......... shouldn't they be the same on both sides?

No. The fixed arm hangs on the O/S and the exhaust goes above it. The anti roll bar attachs at this "arm" and goes across to the N/S where it is mounted with a sinlge bushes/bolt.

Markus Antonius

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BlakeS94

Thanks for the info Cass, to be honest, it's a car that she may be changing within the next year or so, couldn't justify replacing the entire rear suspension and probably need to do the other side also if changing everything on one side. She's going to put a new tyre on it and I'll be with her asking about the tracking and getting a printout to see how the rear camber is.

I've never seen a suspension setup like that, strange one, there's no anti roll bar bushes or links on the back either the bar is just a straight bar.

Dirty Nails

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135183#Comment_118135183

The reason it hasn't bushings or links is it doesn't have a sway bar. Thats a Panhard Rod.

It doesn't have camber or track adjustment either. It's a beam axle.

Very common setup.