4 year olds able to change gender in Scotland

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927095#Comment_117927095

Sorry, but I might be misenterpreting your post here (and please correct me if I am!) but - it appears that you're implying that kids don't know the difference between being gay and being trans and therefore don't need any education on the subject...?

If that's correct surely the opposite - education on the difference IS needed.

If also sounds like you're condoning bullying, btw, but I'm guessing that's just because it's badly written rather than your genuine sentiment: if there's bullying going on, get the bullies to cop on - doesn't matter if it's transphobic, homophobic or even racist or teasing the fat kids - deal with it. Stamp it the **** out.

I'd also ask what you're basing the 'there is no trans bullying in schools' on - how much time do you spend in teenage classrooms?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926966#Comment_117926966

I have provided proof they did. You are pretending at this stage the truth doesnt axtually exist. The attempted destruction of anti bullying campaign can be clearly seen for what it is. Pretense that it was pro LGB isnt true. Pretense that it was questions isnt true. They contacted teachers all over the country making up spurious claims in the hope the teachers might get rid of the campaign from individual schools. It wasnt questions. It wasnt promoting anything for LGB students. It was a shameful attempt to get rid of an anti bullying campaign because they dont like trans peoples existence.

km991148

Lol, no trans slurs or people..

Yeah your are right, there were not many openly trans people in the 90s... Because of the stigma and mockery around it.

Want to inject some comedy into a crap film, get a frock on a man (ok, some art forms this is a great form of expression, but in general it's cheap laughs).

Want some shock TV and laughs? Do a special, Jerry Springer!

Sure, I've never watched the crying game but I know there is a trans character because of all the piss taking over the years (90s/2000s).

It's was so ingrained in our culture it was normal to mock anyone who might even show a slight indication of being trans.

Also, gay bullying slurs isn't exclusive to gay people. Due to the general ignorance back then all the gay terms would be fair game to anyone who could be trans.

You say it's a tiny minority. You don't even know that as so many people have buried these feelings over the years (in the face of mockery and abuse).

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927477#Comment_117927477

I believe your wrong ,

And yet the question of why they essentially relegated LGB from the program ,and replaced it with a prodomintly trans agenda , while the number of trans students is negligible compared to Lesbian ,Gay and Bisexuals in schools

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927707#Comment_117927707

It would be very convenient to keep pushing this "tiny minority".

For the reasons outlined above, not many people would identify as trans because of the social stigma. If your only frame of reference is the fetishised cross dresser specials on Jerry Springer or openly mocking anything that paints men in a more feminine way (or for would be transmen, other sources of mockery) then would you come out? No you would bury that **** so deep that it would never come out. If you are trans but you get bullied for being a (insert derogatory gay slur) - even although you might not actually be gay, how would you feel?

I'm glad the new generation have a language around this and a much more open attitude to gender and sexuality. Yes, only a minority (not as tiny as you want to make out) may be trans. But they do exist, have always existed, and its not lobbyists or the internet that is somehow encouraging them to "become trans".

The fewer people like you and others that want to deny this reality, the better in my opinion.

LLMMLL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927299#Comment_117927299

Gay appropriation nonsense? I never mentioned gay people. What are you talking about.

No openly trans people on TV in the 90s? Um what about Hayley from Cornonation Street which was a famous storyline at the time. I didn't even watch Coronation Street and knew about it. Can you please stop posting false information?

Have you really never heard a trans slur? I think you're just making that up.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927707#Comment_117927707

Yes. You "believe". Exactly. That is your opinion. But the evidence shows I am right. Why are you trying to show concern for LGB students while supporting a group that attempts to destroy anti bullying campaigns.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928527#Comment_117928527

Forgot about Hayley, and the sniggering and mockery that followed.

Strumms

Who pays for it ? A bit of research shows that these procedures when totaled can cost tens of thousands of pounds. Depending on the aspects of the physicality and details the operation addresses / changes. Almost £100,000 in some cases.

Are tax payers going to have to foot that bill ? Same situation as here so, have woke causes have millions thrown their way yet somebody after a car crash or stroke be denied funding for the NRH ‘ insufficient funds ‘ ....

what happens if at 15/16 and halfway through puberty they want their gender realignment undone or reversed to some degree ? Do they pull out the mental health card with one hand and the other hand waiting for another government wad of cash to pay for it again ?

if they contact their MP and tell them “I’m going to kill myself if I don’t get bought a Mazerati” do they now have them close a few hospital beds with one phone call and another to the Mazerati factory.. to order an MC20 ?

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929052#Comment_117929052

Pay for what? Taxpayer funding for what? Maseratis? Is this a film plot or something?

I mean the guidance and studies around it are no doubt covered in the education budget, but I suspect you are talking about an assumption that surgery or something is being performed on children (it isn't).

It's funny, if you want to defend tax payers money against unnecessary health care (unnecessary in your mind of course), why don't you pick something that would deliver a bigger saving? Like maybe not helping people who suffer smoking related diseases? Logically there is a more sound reasoning than the "woke bogeyman" that you just constructed.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928898#Comment_117928898

No your using your opinion as fact , they raised concerns and the usual suspects jumping on people for trying to discuss it , Again you can't claim to support LGBT antibullying campaign when it makes little or no mention to the sizable LGB students in the our schools .

Gatling

@Strumms we already do there is a fund for people to get gender surgeries and has been available for years ,

But ultimately we the taxpayers will fund these experimental clinics and when it goes wrong we will be funding the payouts ,

All this for a negligible group of individuals

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929121#Comment_117929121

a disease is a medical issue. Addiction is a medical issue, whether that be to cigarettes, alcohol, drugs etc.. Wanting to change your gender isn’t a disease... wanting the state and taxpayers to pay for it though... hmmm..

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929358#Comment_117929358

That's not how tax or medical science works, but you do know that really, don't you?

And once again, as much as you want to count this as a negligible group, they aren't.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929389#Comment_117929389

"wanting to change your gender.." ... hmmmm indeed.. you seem to think this is something done on a whim, almost like cosmetic surgery or something?

I think some more research is required tbh.

My analogy stands - choosing to begin to smoke in this day and age should exclude you from lung cancer or COPD treatment in later life - seems fairer than what you are suggesting (I am not actually advocating this, just using it as an example).

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929389#Comment_117929389

And actually, by continuing to deny the existence of trans people, you are kinda advocating for state funded conversation therapy. Who is going to pick up the bill for the associated mental illness problems your (and @Gatlings) version of society is pushing for?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929582#Comment_117929582

I haven’t denied the existence of anybody.

if a man or woman wants to realign or change his gender, good luck to him / her.

i simply don’t believe the state / taxpayers should be required to foot that bill...

zero issues whatsoever with it happening..

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929611#Comment_117929611

Fair enough, you didn't (Although gate-keeping medical assistance is a whole other thing..).

Its kind of a moot point anyway as most trans people do self fund and this thread isn't really about transgender adults (the only people medically transitioning) - its some guidance to support a group of schoolchildren in Scotland.

Edit - Your statement doesn't really sit right tho. You say you don't deny the existence of trans people, but you kinda do just infer that being trans isn't actually a thing and its just people wanting to change gender like getting a new haircut or cosmetic surgery. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, please clarify?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929052#Comment_117929052

You are just jumping in with drivel about surgery when surgery is nothing to do with the discussion at all.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929325#Comment_117929325

You are the one supporting a group that wanted an LGBT anti bullying campaign taken out of Irish schools. Not me. You. The LGB alliance asked schools not to use the anti bullying campaign materials. That is not a lie. That is not an opinion. It was an attempt to discredit and destroy the campaign itself.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930567#Comment_117930567

Again they highlighted the LGBT bullying material contained little or mention of lesbian gay and bisexuals , compared to the overwhelmingly discussion of trans ,

It's not fit for purpose then ,

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930588#Comment_117930588

If you were so concerned about LGB students being bullied you wouldnt support removing the campaign materials.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930599#Comment_117930599

I support removing the campaign due to it having very little to do with LGB students and bullying ,

Imagine the ideal of a LGB bullying campaign that excludes the LGB students who make up a decent percentage of the school population to promote a Ideology that represents a negligible group of students in our schools ,

Tell me how that makes sense

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930599#Comment_117930599

I think it's perfectly clear that there is little support for the issues that some claim to be for (LGB, Womens, children etc)..

Which is a shame as if they spent as much time campaigning for these things as they do campaigning against others, then the world might just be a touch better for it..

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930689#Comment_117930689

You keep saying negligible.. you can't magic people away... No matter how hard you try to reduce..

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930689#Comment_117930689

Exactly. Faux concern for LGB people. Support for the removal of an anti bullying campaign despite earlier attempts to claim this wasnt the case. Shameful really that people want to remove successful anti bullying campaigns that have been hugely positive over almost 2 decades for many many LGBT young people. Really really shameful. Nah you really dont support LGB young people at all.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930859#Comment_117930859

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930806#Comment_117930806

Absolutely. Its complete faux concern and basically many just dont want trans people to exist. The faux concern is laughable really and completely shown up for the sham it is.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117928527#Comment_117928527

What I mean about gay appropriation is the narrative being spun on this thread that there's significant numbers of trans youth in schools up and down the country who are fearful of coming out for all the trans bullying that goes on. That trans slurs are commonplace, trans bullying in commonplace, a carbon copy narrative of the gay experience.

@km991148

Yeah your are right, there were not many openly trans people in the 90s... Because of the stigma and mockery around it

Just like this sort of nonsense. How could there be stigma and mockery about it when noone even knew what it was in the 90's.

@LLMMLL

No openly trans people on TV in the 90s? Um what about Hayley from Cornonation Street which was a famous storyline at the time. I didn't even watch Coronation Street and knew about it. Can you please stop posting false information?

A TV character? Seriously?

Have you really never heard a trans slur? I think you're just making that up.

I am making nothing up. If anyone is making things up on this thread it's certainly not me.

What are the commonplace trans slurs used in schools nowadays? Feel free to PM them to me if you don't want to post them in thread.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927470#Comment_117927470

Well perhaps I do write badly but that doesn't mean you can't get what I mean. I could have read your post to mean that kids should be educated on the difference between gay and trans so that they use the appropriate bullying terms, but I know that's not what you meant. Just like you know I'm not condoning bullying.

I'd also ask what you're basing the 'there is no trans bullying in schools' on - how much time do you spend in teenage classrooms?

I spent as much time in teenage classrooms as much as anyone else did. Or are you suggesting that I'm so old, evolution has moved on since, and there's loads of out trans kids in schools nowadays and thus trans bullying is now widespread, with it's own trans slur words and all that?

If you are, I'm saying that's BS.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117931082#Comment_117931082

|| Just like this sort of nonsense. How could there be stigma and mockery about it when noone even knew what it was in the 90's.

ok, let me try and explain. Ill try and keep it simple.

Trans people have existed for a long long time (yes, even before the 90s! millennia!)

Our language for this has changed over the decades and centuries.

What we now call trans we had different words for in the 90s. People were either known as Transexuals (post op trans) or Crossdressers, but not much else in between (and some people still refer to themselves in this terminology).

Mostly the media (which you claim didn't exist) took a very derogatory, mocking and fetishitic view of transgender-ism. It was openly mocked (including character in film and TV) and as a result many would be trans people have buried that deeply. Time has (thankfully) moved on and now we do have a better language fore this and people are no longer shamed or stigmatised into hiding.

You didn't see many trans people in the 90s for the same reasone there were few openly gay people in the 50s.. Did gay people exist in the 50s?

I mean, you have been following the debate, haven't you?