Upscalers, modern TVs and related blasphemy

o1s1n

I thought we had a thread about scalers here but can't for the life of me find it on the new Vanilla boards.

I've a move coming up and am culling a hell of a lot of my collection, mostly duplicates and things I don't need, but a big hard hit is CRTs. Still keeping the cabs so I won't be totally going cold turkey but I need to start looking into the world of scalers for the time being to play consoles on a big screen.

Last time I searched out info, the xRGB Framemeister was the ****, with the OSSC also being rated up there. The Framemeister now costs a ridiculous amount of cash, so I'm guessing the OSSC is the way to go?

I see there's also the RetroTINK out there too, anyone heard anything about that?

Retr0gamer

Forget the Framemesiter. Great bit of kit but they are no longer made anymore. Also it's a bit finnicky with 460i/p signals. I've to try and sort my own one out for that.

Not sure now if the latest best one is the OSSC or retroTINK.

Steve X2

You're probably talking about an OSSC or RetroTink 5X. To be honest, ever since I got the 5X I've rarely used the OSSC. The latest scanline update is quite something. Best scanlines I've seen on a scaler.

https://www.retrorgb.com/retrotink5x-new-scanline-features.html

Inviere

I'm chiming in here to go full vulture, o1s1n keep me in mind if moving on any 21"ish crts :)

Colonel Panic

I'll exchange my knowledge for a CRT also. I've got the space and my wife never goes into the garden room! :D

I've got an OSSC, RetroTink 2X SCART and RetroTink 5X, so yeah, I'm an idiot about getting scalers.

Setting that up on an OSSC with custom horizontal sampling rates for different consoles is a nightmare, as is setting it up again after an update. There is an online config tool to help, but nuts to that. It does have VGA input though, which is nice. I'm trying to talk myself into selling it, but I hate having to sell anything like this :/ It sounds like I'm dismissing it, but it's an amazing scaler.

The RetroTink 5X includes presets for horizontal sampling rates for different consoles and sees frequent updates to tweak them. It also handles 240p to 480i transitions without dropouts and has an adaptive deinterlating mode that beats the OSSC bob deinterlacing hands down.

The RetroTink 2X is a fine line doubler, in a pinch, but there's zero features beyond some awful filters and 2X upscaling is only okay. I keep this for my test bench only

o1s1n

Thanks for all the info folks! So it looks like a Retrotink 5X is probably the way to go at the moment. quite like that it comes in a professionally finished shell casing too and I'm not into mad technical setups at the moment so if it's easier than it's probably a winner. Now if only it were in stock somewhere! I'll do a bit of hunting and see what I can come up with.

The OSSC is still fairly affordable though so I may just end up buying both...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777177#Comment_117777177

Haha! Never thought I'd see the day where you'd want to return to the CRT world! The main one on the move is the 20 inch BVM and it looks like good oul Mr Burton is going to give that a home in his cave of wonder. Really hard CRT to let go, especially given the sub 10,000 hours of use... probably never find another one again. Kind of have a weird Sophie's choice between three children, the BVM, SNK 25 and Pony...with the cabs winning in the end.

Still have my little 14 inch PVM that I'm going to hang onto and see if I can fit it in somewhere. My grandparents still have that 29 inch CRT in their house that I grew up playing on, so I might nab that in future...

Colonel Panic

You made the right call keeping the cabinets!

And considering my OSSC as part trade for the other 14" PVM if you don't have the room! :D

Colonel Panic

Just got a DC SCART cable from RetroGamingCables that supports 480p, so trying out the DC with my RetroTink5x. I was tempted to install a DC Digital, but given how good this looks, there's no point!

I also got a sync on luma Saturn SCART cable which has considerably less noise visible than my sync on composite cable.

This is actually something to keep in mind actually. Cable quality matters a bit more compared to a CRT. With poorly shielded cables, you can see noise on blacks and other sold colours.

itguyinaction

There is also one aspect more. If you want to use only one retro devices to your lcd tv you can skip reading the next part.

Usually people collect different retro consoles or computers and have many of them at home. Some have s-video output and some rgb output (and some composite only but that's usually not an issue). I wasn't able to find any retro scaler accepting both s-video and rgb input. There is only one either the another one, never both. It means that quite often you have to buy at least 2 devices. That's a bit disappoining. Sure you can use composite but it gives the worst quality. Do you know any device having s-video and rbg as input?

The second thing are different videos modes. Ex. one device can only accept 480i/p mode, while Atari or Commodore displays 240p mode and then it will not work. I believe the subject is much more complicated than expected...

Retr0gamer

xRGB had a plethora of inputs which was nice. Pretty sure it covered everything up to and including component.

Colonel Panic

The RetroTink5X supports RGBS and composite over SCART, YPbPr component, composite and S-Video. There's some port sharing going on though for audio if you're not using SCART so I don't think it's very practical.

The OSSC has RGBS over SCART, YPbPr component and RGBHV over DSub 15.

It's probably best to stick to one type of input where possible and use an external switcher.

Inviere

"Haha! Never thought I'd see the day where you'd want to return to the CRT world!"

I actually have two of them, a 14" Trini from my childhood, and a 21" Ferguson that has a nice output. That said, one more wouldn't hurt lol, just incase....

Colonel Panic

RetroTink 5x stock on the 28th.

https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1430233537135796225

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117798980#Comment_117798980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117777819#Comment_117777819

Excellent thanks! Have set a reminder to let me know once it goes on sale, fingers crossed I can nab one before they're all gone.

Colonel Panic

Updated RetroTink5x to latest firmware. Trying aperture grille "scanlines". I think I can be at peace with this filter.

Tuning 480p Dreamcast for the OSSC. Ratio is finally correct!

o1s1n

Just got a nice juicy import VAT bill in for my RetroTink5x. Was fully expecting it but still, always painful!

On the plus side I should be getting this in the post from DHL tomorrow, really looking forward to giving it a go.

Colonel Panic

https://www.retrotink.com/amp/retrotink-5x-pro-firmware-updates

I read a tweet saying they ship with 1.24 firmware so take a look at what’s been added since!

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889557#Comment_117889557

Have a look at this while you're waiting, good and recent vid on it https://youtu.be/F27cw2sWHMk

Colonel Panic

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing%3A4881969

I got my brother in law to print one of these in red. It's pretty sweet!

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117891340#Comment_117891340

That was a great watch, thanks!

Inviere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117896806#Comment_117896806

Yeah I always enjoy Anthony's vids, he's a serious techie, but a retro gamer at heart.

Retr0gamer

...

o1s1n

Hey dudes - am I being a complete moron (probably) or is there something up with my unit?

I've installed two firmware versions to check (1.77 and 1.74) - when I press the H.Sampling button with a mouse on it, all I can get are two options - generic 4:3 and generic 16:9. I can't seem to find all the different console options.

From what I've read/watched, pressing the H.Sampling button should cycle through all the options?

Doge

Whats this, the CRT connoisseur is selling his CRT collection?!!! 😮

The world is truly ending! You don’t deserve that Diagram of the CRT that was made in Germany anymore ! 😛

Colonel Panic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901583#Comment_117901583

What output resolution and what input device are you using?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902291#Comment_117902291

Jesus you've some memory on you! Haha

I actually only found that over the weekend while getting ready to move. Never did stick it up on the wall in the end, maybe in the new spot...

Not to worry, I'm still keeping the PVM 14L4 and my cabs with their lovely Toshiba tubes, so not totally out of the game. Just sold the Ikegami, a 9 inch PVM and the 20 inch BVM is soon to go...(sob!)

The scaler does produce lovely results but but yeah, definitely still not a CRT replacement. Although saying that, I think I'll need to upgrade my TV to an OLED to really get a nice picture out of it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902951#Comment_117902951

1080p resolution out with RGB in, does the output/input have a bearing on the H.Sampling options? Ill try a different resolution this evening to see if they appear.

Inviere

Even seeing o1s1n posting the term "1080p" is odd...

Colonel Panic

There's apparently some limitations when it comes to 1440p, @o1s1n, but you're at 1080p so that's all good.

In terms of input resolutions, again I remember seeing less horizontal sampling options at some resolutions. 480p only supports DTV (which is aspect correct) and 16:9.

I fired up my Gamecube and started a game without progressive scan on and it did seem to cycle through all the custom sampling modes though so I could be wrong!

o1s1n

Figured out what the issue is, it doesn't seem to gel too well with my modified Super Famicom - tried the Saturn this afternoon and getting some nice results, was able to shuffle through all the different h.sampling console settings.

CiDeRmAn

Did someone say... 20" PVM????

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117913924#Comment_117913924

None of that pauper PVM stuff, this is a 20 inch BVM.

Meant to be going to casa de la Jack Burton... if he's not able to take it I'll put it in a room with a load of knives and let you all fight it out :D